John; These things are written that you may believe

"Maybe one day I will relate my full story, for now it is a work in progress."

Thank you for sharing part of your life. My family who comes from kind of distinguished roots on one side, has in my father's and my own generation of aunt's uncles cousins, been afflicted with a multitude of disorders and chronic diseases. Setbacks and tragedy definitely can cause sincere reflection.

a reply to: SelectStart

Why when I start talking scripture do you choose not to answer me after sending me giant messages persistently?

Did you realize that I do know my scriptures and am not some kook and now don't want to take the chance of debating the finer points of scripture with me because you underestimated my knowledge?

I get that.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: SelectStart

understanding that my submission to him in belief of him, must be a way of life for me.

You have found your way to the central message of the Bible.

I think your instinct is right, that obedience to God follows on from faith, not the other way round. That seems to be the right formula all the way through the New Testament, even in James ("I will show you my faith by my works"). It's what Paul means by "If we live by the Spirit,let us also walk by the Spirit", and its the main theme of 1 John.
(Conversely, if we can see Adam's disobedience as an act of distrust, fundamentally, then the solution found in the New Testament begins to make more sense)

On the question of Revelation; I don't expect there to be any "rapture", in the fashionable sense of the word. Paul says the saints will be "taken up" to Christ when he returns. So yes, "Here is a call for the patience of the saints" sums up the purpose of the whole book.

I also do not feel like there will be a "pre-tribulation rapture" either, nor can I find a clear indication of it in scripture. I've listened to and read about all the support regarding it, and there are a lot of stretches. It does appear to me it's stating the catching up and the 1st resurrection to Jesus are one event. I'd like to be surprised that I was wrong all along however.

Thank you also for the scripture regarding faith you shared. Very edifying friend.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: SelectStart

Why when I start talking scripture do you choose not to answer me after sending me giant messages persistently?

Did you realize that I do know my scriptures and am not some kook and now don't want to take the chance of debating the finer points of scripture with me because you underestimated my knowledge?

I get that.

No not at all. Most of my replies to you that are long, aren't really to you ONLY any how. Secret: I write so my point gets across to anyone reading our little discussions. If I wanted to speak only to you I'd try to find a way to private chat or email ya.

I'll debate the "finer points of scripture" with you, and I do not mind if you are more knowledgeable than me. I may sound like I only like to argue, but really I don't. Nor do I think very much of myself. I have read your posts and I DO know that you are highly intelligent and well read. No doubt.

That said....I think I side tracked us a bit in THIS particular thread. It's about "belief" and it's usage, meaning, and application in our lives as described in the New Testament regarding the NT's Jesus.

In respect to the original poster, I do not wish to pee any farther than you in this thread. I'll concede defeat, for now!!!!

Peace.

OH. and Parazurvan, you should be delighted to know I just started reading Enoch tonight. Very interesting book. I'm trying to stay away from all the additional foot notes and descriptive pages the person who placed it into a PDF had included, until I get done with it first. Then any questions I have regarding it I'll start doing some internet "research" on to try and better understand it from others points of view, as well as see if there is anything in there that might be helpful to me in my understanding of my own views.

Thanks for the suggestion earlier somewhere else on ATS.

SORRY OP!!! for the side bar.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SelectStart

Well said.

Our experiences are our own, and none of us can know for sure what another has experiences which is why it is never a good idea to tell someone definitively that they are going to hell. None of us knows.

We don't even for sure know about ourselves, not until that day comes.

Thank you very much, and I agree.

a reply to: SelectStart

That does make me happy. Good choice.

I wasn't trying to insult you, I respect your point of view. I just thought you were only interested in telling me, and not listening to mine.

My mistake.

a reply to: SelectStart

Book of Enoch

Book of the secrets of Enoch and more

Enjoy.

originally posted by: SelectStart

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: SelectStart

understanding that my submission to him in belief of him, must be a way of life for me.

You have found your way to the central message of the Bible.

I think your instinct is right, that obedience to God follows on from faith, not the other way round. That seems to be the right formula all the way through the New Testament, even in James ("I will show you my faith by my works"). It's what Paul means by "If we live by the Spirit,let us also walk by the Spirit", and its the main theme of 1 John.
(Conversely, if we can see Adam's disobedience as an act of distrust, fundamentally, then the solution found in the New Testament begins to make more sense)

On the question of Revelation; I don't expect there to be any "rapture", in the fashionable sense of the word. Paul says the saints will be "taken up" to Christ when he returns. So yes, "Here is a call for the patience of the saints" sums up the purpose of the whole book.

I also do not feel like there will be a "pre-tribulation rapture" either, nor can I find a clear indication of it in scripture. I've listened to and read about all the support regarding it, and there are a lot of stretches. It does appear to me it's stating the catching up and the 1st resurrection to Jesus are one event. I'd like to be surprised that I was wrong all along however.

Thank you also for the scripture regarding faith you shared. Very edifying friend.

Very much agree with you on this.

originally posted by: SelectStart
Thank you also for the scripture regarding faith you shared. Very edifying friend.

"Faith" has been my 2016 theme up to this point.
If you get encouragement from the scriptural statements about faith, you may be interested in what Jesus said about it in the other gospels;
Jesus said; Your faith has saved you
Jesus said; These little ones who believe in me
Jesus said; Will the Son of man find faith on earth?

And also this series of threads;
Galatians; Their faith had saved them

This thread may be regarded as one of a sequence, covering similar themes in John's gospel.

The light and the darkness
The truth and the witness
The trial and the judgement

P.S. Just in case anyone is curious, I will be offering no new thread this weekend, as I am going away for a week and won't be at home to look after them.