Indonesia Approves Death for Pedophiles

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Sparkymedic

Tigers and lions are not born to prey on humans. But the odd one does start preying on human and as lovely and precious as those cats are they need to be shot for public safty as once they start veiwing humans as as viable food source they will continue to attack.

Same with paedophiles. Doesn’t matter what broke them. Fact is once broke they can’t be fixed and need either putting down or locking away with ZERO HOPE OR CHANCE of EVER setting foot outside of a maximum security prison while they draw breath.

So you have conducted the necessary experiments and trials to conclude that a pedophile can never change?

a reply to: AmericanRealist

I dont generally agree with the use of the death penalty but lets face it if anyone deserves execution its the beasts of our world.

That being said any judge or court of the land that metes out such justice should be 110% sure that the perpetrator is guilty before dishing out such a sentence, because lets face it there is no margin of error that can be corrected at a later date.

a reply to: GreenGunther

The fact is Paedophiles who are released regally go on to reoffend. The rates about 20-65%

There is no way to know who are "cured" and who will go on to reoffend. Therefore they can’t currently EVER be deemed safe to be released.

Rehabilitation and help should focus on those who have the urges and haven’t acted on them. Those people deserve the chance.

Once they do break the law and act. That’s it they are too much of a risk.

It better to spend the resources on prevention than trying to coddle and rehabilitate the acting Paedophiles who can’t be deemed safe to renter society.

Having looked at this and have read all of the replies the following can be stated:

I do not agree with or find any sympathy for those who would sexually use children.

What I find surprising is the number of people who advocate the death penalty for those who would do such. And as was pointed out the justice systems often tend to have problems around the world, including in the United States. Do we now go with hysteria and find a person guilty without proof? There are cases, of such here in the USA, where it ruined the lives of people, all due to the parents hating them or children lying under oath, with words put into their mouths by people anxious to get a conviction. While at the same time, there are some cases where those who were proven to have done such, walked away.

Before we take on such a hard line approach, the criminal laws need to be relooked at and ultimately either scraped with a new set put on the books, or there will be mistakes. And the first problem is the sex offender lists that are out there. Those laws, while having the best of intentions, are showing to have caused more problems than it should.

And then there are the actual laws, where you see the lives of some ruined for years, due to either the person who is considered the victim, who is not so innocent, or where is it due to a parent wanting to punish the other person.

Point in case, would be what about a man, who goes to a bar, picks up a girl, she says she is in her 20’s, has id, looks and acts like it and then she ends up being 16 then what? Do you now advocate punishing the man? What about the case where the boy is 18 in high school, and his girlfriend is 16 and they have sex, and now he is in trouble cause of such, cause the parents caught them and seek to punish the boy, should that 18 year old be punished and put to death or castrated for such?

These are the kinds of things that are now coming out with the laws that are on the books in the USA right now, where these things happen and unfortunately it brands such as being a sex offender, or even a child molester for the rest of the persons natural life. And therein lies part of the problem.

Another part is the legal system and the fact that the laws are not applied equally across the board. Take the case of Robert H. Richards. Here is a man, who was convicted of molesting of his own daughter, but only got probation, while someone else would have had the book thrown at them, and they would have been in prison for years to come.

While another case, the McMartin preschool trial, showed that one parent made accusations, without any evidence, and it was shown that the children were told what to say, and when it came out, that there was perjury and the children were only repeating what the adults had told them to say. And in the end, costing the tax payers 15 million dollars and one family’s name ruined due to it.

While I do agree that those who are convicted, beyond a shadow of a doubt of such should be punished, and it should be hard, and after that they should be kept apart from the rest of society, I also must conclude that the laws in the country are out of order as well. A man can murder rape and murder a child and have far less of a problem, than one who molests a child, who is the greater danger and why is it that the murder does not have to be on a list and allowed to be where he may recommit such a crime, while the molester has to stay away from such?

Wait till the human rights champions step in and start whining...

a reply to: sdcigarpig

The situations you described are a far cry from wealthy foreigners traveling to a place to pay for sex with minors, or for that matter, the brutal gang raping and murder of the 14 year old girl who's tragedy inspired these laws.

There is a thing called trials and due process. The Death penalty in America usually takes 20-30 years before finally actually being carried out. If someone is truly innocent in that time, certainly something would clear the individual.

Frankly, as has been repeatedly stated, if the DNA is in there, if there are multiple corroborating witnesses or a trail of evidence that cannot be refuted, clearly guilt can be applied.

If the cases is so shaky that it barely gets a conviction simply because the prosecutor was able to sell circumstantial evidence, then the judge can use his discretion as to how to proceed. As far as Indonesia goes, I predict a sudden decrease in certain tourists visiting the country soon.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

While I do agree the penalties need to be harsher, at the same time it also has to be noted and possible watching and prosecution for those who travel, after they get back to their home countries. For many years, those areas which have this problem, the authorities in many countries knew of the activities that go on, so it should also be for those countries whose citizens that do such, should get involved and start to not allow them to travel to those locations as well.

Why should it just be the country that the activities happen, why not also the country from where the suspect started from?

a reply to: sdcigarpig

I agree with that view 100% as well, that is a very valid and good point to bring up.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Just remember, nobody is being "allowed to reoffend". We currently have a system where you do the crime, you do the time, you get released. (Indefinite detention is actually against international law for very good reason.)
These people are released because their time has been served, they are not permitted to reoffend, it is still illegal. To change this is to change the very foundation of the justice system and the way we view offenders and people.

I know this is a "slippery slope", but it is relevant and pertinent. What's next, banning thieves from commercial premises? Drink drivers never being able to get a license? Perpetrators of fraud never being able to hold a bank account?

One change I propose and support is a complete psych evaluation of all offenders in any jail and much more money going into research. We need to know what makes child molesters tick. We need to know why they offend the way they do. We need to know how to treat them, who poses a threat and why some re-offend and others do not. You never know, treatment might involve taking a pill or having a medicinal implant.
We might be able to abolish child molestation completely. It's evident that nothing has worked so far.

The system is broken and if we permit things such as indefinite detention or execution, particularly in places like Indonesia, you can bet falsified evidence will be manufactured to put innocent people behind bars. They might be a political dissident, perhaps they were accused of molestation but there was no evidence, maybe everybody thought they were guilty at the time but it couldn't be proven.. So the evidence mysteriously appears, just to vanish in an "administration error" after trial. Innocent people do get executed, but people don't want to think about that.

There is no easy answer to this because we don't know why it happens. We don't know what turns a paedophile into a child molester or even what makes one adult rape another adult. We have suspicions, but that is all there is.

Everybody, I want you to remember the effect of social conscience. Remember "Je suis charlie"? Then it turned out that the paper was basically operated by a bunch of racist jerks.. Remember people screaming about "freedom of speech"? Very few people actually investigated the issue, but many jumped on the bandwagon.

This is bias. Understand your bias. Know how you think and why. Practice critical thinking.

I would love to take to child molesters with a hammer. Give me 10 mins with each one. But that does nothing more than stopping one person and allowing me to feel a little justice was done.
The fact of the matter is we need to understand why this happens and while people are out there waving pitchforks and screaming for blood, we're going to get nowhere. Innocent people are going to be killed and children are still going to get hurt.

If you want to do something, write to your local government officials and propose having the law changed so that any and every offender who acts against children is required to participate in and offer full cooperation with any study, related to the offense or not. Make it illegal for them to not participate. Then maybe we will get somewhere.

a reply to: LilFox

I don't see why you try to rationalize child molesters. They should be shot on sight after determination of guilt right in front of everyone. Don't even let them leave the courtroom. Just escort him to a corner, shove his head into the corner and pop a slug in him.

No revolving doors, no repeat offender, no money wasted trying to "get into his head", no more victims living in fear of "that" criminal scumbag.
Sleeper agents, feel free to utilize the sex offender registry to purge our communities

a reply to: LilFox

Here is the problem in a nut shell. We all know where this activity takes place, there have been reports, news casts and other details on where such happens, and often times it is not hard to put 2 and 2 together to see who is going over there and for what activities. If more countries were to look and stop such, then the rate would go down.

Funny you should mention about the system being broke, because it is. In the USA right now, the laws are set, and it is broken by the very laws and society. A person who is convicted, by they innocent or guilty, will often be punished twice. There is a disparity in the law when it comes to sentencing and often it can be seen when it comes down to money and gender. And the laws are often abused in ways that many were never intended to be.

Point in case to this factor would be the sex offender’s registry. Its idea was noble and that way it would let the public know if a person was a dangerous predator, however the laws were written in a way that it is now being abused and the people on it wear that like a scarlet letter for the rest of their natural life. And their crimes, in some cases, urinating in public, or how about the one where the boy is 18, in high school, dating a 16 year old and ends up having sex with her, yet her parents decide this is unacceptable and has the boy charged with rape and he is now on that list. Or how about the cases where the teens were flirting and sexting and one of the parents sees such and it is usually the boy who gets the worse part of it and is charged and ends up on that list.

And what is even worse, is that a women convicted of molesting a child, often will end up with a lighter sentence than if it was a male. Or if a person has money, and can afford the best defense attorney many times end up with a far lighter sentence than say someone else.

Then there is society and its mind set. Once a person has been accused of, even if they are innocent, often has to move from their communities and homes, for the stigma that is attached to their names is like a milstone around their necks.

The idea about the criminal justice system was that a person, if found guilty and served their time, would, while incarcerated, do penance and after wards, on release rejoin society with no stigma attached to them and for them to live as law abiding persons. However, that too has become perverted to the point where now if a person does time, society holds it against them for years, depending on the crime.

And that list I mentioned, it is now being used in laws to dictate where a person can and can not live. In some states, and locations, most if not all of those on that list can not live in a city or a town, but outside, or in a small area. It is a point where cities like the one in Florida have been created to give them a place to live, far away from the potential for them to recommit said offenses, yet some would say it is not enough or it is wrong.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

18 year old adults should simply move on and mingle with the adult world. As soon as I turned 18 I just looked forward and always tried to find older women to date. I actually had to arrange with my then girlfriend/sexfriend who was younger than me prior to turning 18 that we would have to call it off due to law. Besides, with me own car and no responsibilities at the time , it was time to chase me down some college girls for nights of drunken recklessness.

I think all highschoolers should be discouraged from dating their peers when under 16. There are too many adult woman to risk anything with a 16 or 17 year old teenager anyways, I just don't see why the students bother.

Well then again, I was kicked out of highschool at 16 so maybe my point of view is invalid.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

But most teens don't think that far ahead and it points out some of the problems with the laws as they stand.