277k non-EU and 270k EU citizens immigrated to UK in year ending December 2015.

originally posted by: gortex
The latest figures just released by the Office for National Statistics make grim reading for both the Tory party and the Remain campaign , despite Tory pledges to reduce the number of net migration to under 100,000 per year the net figure for last year now stands at 333,000 , up 20,000 from December 2014.

That is the net figure. Among the immigrants during that period, 129,000 were EU-14 nationals Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and Sweden). They are generally coming for well-paid, high-end jobs and thus doesn't compete with our own unemployed ones. The net figure with any sort of impact on them is therefore closer to 204,000 people.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport


it would be interesting to see the breakdown of the ethnicity of those EU citizens that are emigrating to the U.K..

Living on the Canadian border on the U.S. side, there is a constant flow of immigrants to the U.S.. However, the vast majority of them are new citizens to Canada as well. Mostly Asian in origin.

I have no numbers, merely empirical evidence. What one would label 'old Canadians' aren't anywhere near matching the 'new Canadian' moves. As Canada has a far more favorable status immigrant-wise with the U.S., apparently a number of immigrants to Canada have as a motivation eventual immigration to the U.S..

Is it possible a similar situation exists within the E.U.?

The UK is one of the easiest EU countries to become a national of, and in light of what you describe, it is quite likely that many come to the UK to obtain a British passport so that they can then move on and settle elsewhere.

originally posted by: RAY1990
I'd like to add that the UK has a place (pr is it 2) place on the WTO,

No, we don't. We have never bee a member of the WTO in our own right. We have been a subscriber to the GATT agreement, though.

We are only an indirect member of the WTO because the EU is a member of the WTO. When/if we leave, we won't have that access anymore but would have to begin negotiating with all the 123 WTO members to become a member in our own right. That is quite a bit more negotiation than dealing with just 27 EU member states.

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: gortex

And yet our own unemployed are victimised and stigmatised.....there are only so many jobs to go around!!

I know of no-one that is going to vote to stay but I'm betting most businesses will

However, I also believe this is just for show and the outcome is already decided....if only that was provable!

It is unfair. I've worked as a contractor in these deprived areas. The first thing is that there are so few jobs, that they are scattered throughout the entire city or region. You either need a car or use public transport. But public transport is completely unreliable. Your employer wants you in at 9am. There's a half hourly bus. The first one gets in at 8.15am. The next one gets in at 8.45am. Sometimes, the bus is late, breaks down, gets held up in traffic, so you have to take the earlier bus just to be safe. Either way, you end up standing around in the rain or freezing cold for at least half an hour. If you decide to buy a car, you can't afford to rent your own place, so you have to flat-share. Taxi fares are around £10/3 miles. Buses are about a third of that. If you are lucky, you can get a monthly pass for £60

Some councils seem totally anti public-transport. Where I'm living, they are actually removing bus stops along the high-street to "streamline" the service. Why????

One thing that really irks me is the state and cost of public transport.

on minimum wage your pulling in around £220 - £280 a week wage when working full time. Half of that can go towards rent and travel if your lucky. Luck is something I have due to location, I can travel local buses for about £14 a week but that IS local, majority of jobs require further travel and that pass is about £20-£30 a week or you can save by getting a monthly pass. I know from personal experience that all-access passes can cost up to 4x that if you live in the wrong place.

Reminds me of that "NHS post code lottery", not so much a lottery but rather service providers knowing just where they could milk the cow a little more.

originally posted by: moniker

originally posted by: RAY1990
I'd like to add that the UK has a place (pr is it 2) place on the WTO,

No, we don't. We have never bee a member of the WTO in our own right. We have been a subscriber to the GATT agreement, though.

We are only an indirect member of the WTO because the EU is a member of the WTO. When/if we leave, we won't have that access anymore but would have to begin negotiating with all the 123 WTO members to become a member in our own right. That is quite a bit more negotiation than dealing with just 27 EU member states.

I was always under the impression we had an active seat, maybe you could educate me a bit... I'm sure the common wealth was involved within British involvement concerning WHO. Anyway, I have heard talk about the possibility of the UK becoming a free-trade zone which would instantly nullify the need to go out and once again set up trade deals with the other nations.

I'm no economist, though from what I gather the UK is a land of import/export, the majority of our industry is advanced and predominantly relies on importing then refining/producing then exporting. We are not really producers of raw materials... 200 years ago the majority of our ships were being built from Baltic wood for instance, though then we did need trade agreements for guaranteed wood shipments, today so much wood is on the market we would just adopt the natural flow of trade in a free-trade setup. Again, I'm no economist.

Could you see Britain adopting a free-trade stance? Also do you believe we would actually have any difficulty acquiring trade agreements that are vital to the economy if we did leave?

originally posted by: moniker
No, we don't. We have never bee a member of the WTO in our own right. We have been a subscriber to the GATT agreement, though.

We are only an indirect member of the WTO because the EU is a member of the WTO. When/if we leave, we won't have that access anymore but would have to begin negotiating with all the 123 WTO members to become a member in our own right. That is quite a bit more negotiation than dealing with just 27 EU member states.

The UK signed up to GATT 1.1.1948 and by 1994 was one of 128

member countries.

The governments that had signed GATT were officially known as *GATT

contracting parties* and on January 1st 1995 the WTO replaced GATT and

they ALL officially became WTO members.


So YES the UK is a WTO member in its own right.


ALL the 28 member states of the EU are dually represented

so there is no doubt that the UK is a member of the WTO, could almost be

said to be a founding member having signed in in 1948

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: moniker
No, we don't. We have never bee a member of the WTO in our own right. We have been a subscriber to the GATT agreement, though.

We are only an indirect member of the WTO because the EU is a member of the WTO. When/if we leave, we won't have that access anymore but would have to begin negotiating with all the 123 WTO members to become a member in our own right. That is quite a bit more negotiation than dealing with just 27 EU member states.

The UK signed up to GATT 1.1.1948 and by 1994 was one of 128

member countries.

The governments that had signed GATT were officially known as *GATT

contracting parties* and on January 1st 1995 the WTO replaced GATT and

they ALL officially became WTO members.


So YES the UK is a WTO member in its own right.


ALL the 28 member states of the EU are dually represented

so there is no doubt that the UK is a member of the WTO, could almost be

said to be a founding member having signed in in 1948

So it is a non issue?

Human rights was almost ammunition for the remain crowd, someone must have realised EU legislation on individual rights was compatible with us and not the other way around... Ahhh it's a funny old world

originally posted by: RAY1990

originally posted by: moniker
We have never bee a member of the WTO in our own right. We have been a subscriber to the GATT agreement, though.

We are only an indirect member of the WTO because the EU is a member of the WTO. When/if we leave, we won't have that access anymore but would have to begin negotiating with all the 123 WTO members to become a member in our own right. That is quite a bit more negotiation than dealing with just 27 EU member state.

I was always under the impression we had an active seat, maybe you could educate me a bit... I'm sure the common wealth was involved within British involvement concerning WHO. Anyway, I have heard talk about the possibility of the UK becoming a free-trade zone which would instantly nullify the need to go out and once again set up trade deals with the other nations.

I'm no economist, though from what I gather the UK is a land of import/export, the majority of our industry is advanced and predominantly relies on importing then refining/producing then exporting. We are not really producers of raw materials... 200 years ago the majority of our ships were being built from Baltic wood for instance, though then we did need trade agreements for guaranteed wood shipments, today so much wood is on the market we would just adopt the natural flow of trade in a free-trade setup. Again, I'm no economist.

Could you see Britain adopting a free-trade stance? Also do you believe we would actually have any difficulty acquiring trade agreements that are vital to the economy if we did leave?

The UK is a free trade area in its own right for its member nations (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland). If the UK were to remain outside of any free trade organisation or any FTA for that matter, the UK could well decide not to impose any import tariffs at all. That would however not stop the countries that we export to to impose their own import tariffs on what we want to sell to them.

originally posted by: eletheia
So YES the UK is a WTO member in its own right.

I stand corrected.

www.wto.org...

However the WTO chief says that the agreement would need to be renegotiated in the case of leaving, as EU member states' terms are contingent on the EUs agreement.