Global Conspiracy

I must say from experience that there does not appear to be any global conspiracy to take over the world from those that are currently in power. You can include in this scenario whatever secret society you choose. Living in the US it is very easy to see that life is pretty much what you make it. You have the freedom to do or say whatever you wish so long as it does not cause harm to anyone else or their property. If there were truly evil conspirators that ruled the world then this would not be so. There are countries in this day and age that do not enjoy the same rights and freedoms as American citizens. I believe that it is a established fact a great deal of the fathers of the US were Freemasons. They appear to have known something during that time about how much progress could be made by individuals if they were given the freedom to think for themselves and not be oppressed by tyrannical leaders or the church. I believe the results of their efforts pretty much speak for themselves. The problem would be that a group would attempt to take away that freedom of thought. That would be the only credible option for a conspiracy. The threat comes from those that would like to destroy that. The threat comes from those that want to make everyone adopt their beliefs or ideas. The threat would come from someone like Sadaam Hussein if he was to some how build a powerful military backed with nuclear weapons. Then you would have a conspiracy. Let's face it there are countries right now that are under a "new world order". They would like nothing more than to put the entire world under that same rule. Take a country like China for instance, everything is run by the state. Speaking out against their leaders might get them imprisoned or killed. Sometimes Americans and other democratic countries take for granted just how good we've got it. The enemies of freedom are obvious. They are the ones that would like to create a "new world order".

ermm ok, i think you have basiclly posted your own theory on the NWO, an interesting one i have to say.

The fact is that every countries are related by something
Maybe, we don't have the same life of a chinese in china but the main idea is the same....everybody wants POWER and money, every country wants power at any cost! That is what is dangerous
Freedom is a very very large word. But for me freedom in north america is maybe better than in some other countries... like dictatorship countries, it's obvious that it is corrupted and not free but in north america or europe, we think we are free but we are not, it's hidden...
You call that free someone who has to go to work every single day to pay taxes, bills, fuel and all those material stuff that we don't really need but we believe we need it...that is just an example
All the media propagnada to make you think what they want you to think, that is freedom????
If they say "get the flu shot" 80% of people go get the flu shot....that is what is going on so what's next?

Amelia

Originally posted by Amelia
The fact is that every countries are related by something
Maybe, we don't have the same life of a chinese in china but the main idea is the same....everybody wants POWER and money, every country wants power at any cost! That is what is dangerous
Freedom is a very very large word. But for me freedom in north america is maybe better than in some other countries... like dictatorship countries, it's obvious that it is corrupted and not free but in north america or europe, we think we are free but we are not, it's hidden...
You call that free someone who has to go to work every single day to pay taxes, bills, fuel and all those material stuff that we don't really need but we believe we need it...that is just an example
All the media propagnada to make you think what they want you to think, that is freedom????
If they say "get the flu shot" 80% of people go get the flu shot....that is what is going on so what's next?

Amelia

Totally agree

Try getting some food in New York or London without money!

200 years ago you would have just walked into your field and picked fruit from the tree... That is freedom

The fact is that every countries are related by something
Maybe, we don't have the same life of a chinese in china but the main idea is the same....everybody wants POWER and money, every country wants power at any cost! That is what is dangerous
Freedom is a very very large word. But for me freedom in north america is maybe better than in some other countries... like dictatorship countries, it's obvious that it is corrupted and not free but in north america or europe, we think we are free but we are not, it's hidden...
You call that free someone who has to go to work every single day to pay taxes, bills, fuel and all those material stuff that we don't really need but we believe we need it...that is just an example
All the media propagnada to make you think what they want you to think, that is freedom????
If they say "get the flu shot" 80% of people go get the flu shot....that is what is going on so what's next?

First of all it is a person's individual right to want power or money. That is totally up to them. If you were to say that people should not or cannot desire these things you would be practicing some kind of dictatorship or censorship yourself. Different people want different things. That's the bottomline. Secondly, No one said that you have to go to work, pay taxes, pay bills, buy food or fuel. You choose to do these things! Society has certain rules in place that you must abide by if you want to apart of society. If you don;t like the rules withdraw from society and do your own thing. The chose is yours. One of the fundamental tenets of society is cooperation and working together. I believe that those who make my life in society easier deserve to be compensated. Otherwise, I would have to acquire a farm and do it myself. Furthermore, if I were to do this it would take away from me one of the most valuable commodities I have. That commodity being time! I have time to do other things that I enjoy doing. Just to take this to another level, I have the right to acquire as much capital as I would like that would afford me further benefits of society. I would the be able to compensate more people. Regarding your third statement about flu shots, if 80% of the people listen to these reports and are led by them then that is there choice. It does not have to be mine. In a democratic society the choice is yours. We just have to remember that people are going to be people. You have good and bad wherever you go. Just like you have good police and bad police. Although they are all suppose to stand for the same thing.

No one said that you have to go to work, pay taxes, pay bills, buy food or fuel. You choose to do these things!

Society has certain rules in place that you must abide by if you want to apart of society. If you don;t like the rules withdraw from society and do your own thing. The chose is yours.

Errr... yeah ok... Walk into a forest one day build a hut and start living off the land and see how long it is before the authorities start harassing you!

There is no withdrawing from society unless you are rich or at least have a fair amount of money in the first place. There are huge areas inhabitable land still left on the planet but very few areas left that are not controlled, threatened by war or have plans for government development. In Britain most of the land is “owned” and if I just broke from society and started living off the land it wouldn’t be long before I was dragged into court.

I think you seem to think that people who don’t like modern society have all the answers for a new one. Well I can’t speak for the rest but I personally do not.

What I do think though is, in terms of true freedom, we are currently as free as Animals on a farm. The animals my think they are free, while they are grazing in the field, but that’s because they have there heads buried to deep in the grass and are to dumb to look up and see it’s really the farmer who is controlling everything.



Because I don’t know how to get out of quicksand doesn’t mean I shouldn’t complain about it.

By its very nature, a conspiracy is hidden; sometimes right in front of your face. In countries ruled by totalitarian governments, the dictator taking all the money and putting it into his own bank accounts and/or buying up weapons is not a conspiracy; it's out in the open, and if you don't like it, bad luck.

In the West, however, if we are told that we have it so good and that we are free, yet behind the scenes things are controlled and directed by powers that we didn't elect, and those powers are working towards goals that are not in our best interests, then you have a conspiracy.

Originally posted by Osirisrisen
First of all it is a person's individual right to want power or money. That is totally up to them. If you were to say that people should not or cannot desire these things you would be practicing some kind of dictatorship or censorship yourself.

Well here's the question: Is it really totally up to us? If the monetary system is controlled to keep the people in debt, and to keep nations' governments in debt, then that is a conspiracy. If the media is controlled and used to make us believe that only more money, more power and more sex will nake us happy, then that is a conspiracy.

If you don;t like the rules withdraw from society and do your own thing. The chose is yours.

Exactly, just like the Native Americans and Native Australians. Oh...wait...we killed them all and destroyed the FREE society of those that remained. Enough said.

Furthermore, if I were to do this it would take away from me one of the most valuable commodities I have. That commodity being time! I have time to do other things that I enjoy doing.

Yeah, like watching the movies that they want you to watch, listening to the music they make for you, watching the news to suck up more of their bullsheet, learning a skill to enable you to get more money and power, trying to make yourself more attractive and acceptable so you can get more booty, and basically doing everything except discovering your true spiritual nature. Isn't it nice to have all that time?

...about flu shots, if 80% of the people listen to these reports and are led by them then that is there choice. It does not have to be mine. In a democratic society the choice is yours.

Again, if people are deceived as to the nature of the "vaccinations" and are deceived as to the true source of these biological threats, then you once again have...conspiracy.

I haven't seen anything in your argument to rule out the existence of conspiracy. In order to discuss "freedom", you must first define it. If you define freedom as the ability to make choices that you are trained to make, then sure, you are free, just like the rat in the maze is free to choose to turn left to get the electric shock, or turn right to get the cheese.

I will only say one thing that sickens me about americans. America did not give you freedom, you are born free. America just restricts what you can do less than dictatorships. Tell me in your free america where u can do what you want unles you do not harm anyone else or their property, then why cant you walk down the street past a police officer with a smoking joint in your mouth?

Not only that!!!! smoking a blunt is illegal but "I forgot to lock the door of my car in a public parking and got a 50$ ticket"
And my dream would be to travel around the world, I just can't , it's too expensive, everything you want that cost money is against freedom IMO...
Any way, we have to follow the rules of society...u r born with a social number, means you have a nationality and all....you are in the system the minute u r born
Like he said, if you don't like it, what do you do? Hide in the bushes and dress with leaves, eat blueberries? we would have to start everything all over again on the BASES

Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Money is something you have the freedom to earn, not something you have "the right" on.
That kind of mindset makes you turn into a lazy parasite.
While penalty tickets are a debatable issue, saying things like "everything you want that cost money is against freedom IMO" is against freedom of other people, because it implies that you are getting something for free, that is, payed for by someone other than yourself.

Traveling around the world isn't free either, it requires service from people who enable you to travel.
Oil, vehicles, manpower all require financial compensation.
I hope its because you are very young that you don't comprehend the elementary facts about how economy works.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Megaquad]

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was saying that society is BUILT like that but it could have been otherway
If you say that people who don't wanna work are lazy, that is not nice! I work and I hate it! WHO INVENTED MONEY AND WORK???????????????? Probably someone who made a lot of profits out of it!

Originally posted by Amelia
I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was saying that society is BUILT like that but it could have been otherway
If you say that people who don't wanna work are lazy, that is not nice! I work and I hate it! WHO INVENTED MONEY AND WORK???????????????? Probably someone who made a lot of profits out of it!

LOL.

Work is not nice, but everything we consume is made by people who don't usually love what they do.
Glass of milk for example, is a product of many people who don't like to work, but you see, in return they get to buy other things they like, and so on.

There is no alternative, human bodies consume a lot of energy which are produced by work.
But, good thing is that, the more time that people on Earth work, the less hard that work is.

200 years ago average people would have to work 12 hours a day just to barely feed themselves or their family, and now there is so much wealth (in the developed world anyway), thanks to technologies such as industrial revolution, computers etc. that people have not only money for their basic needs, but they can buy cars, computers etc.

Wealth is growing exponentially, and new technologies in the future, such as A.I., better working robots and better forms of energy can replace great part of hard work we humans do, so forecast for lazy people is good

"WHO INVENTED MONEY AND WORK???????????????? Probably someone who made a lot of profits out of it!"
Very funny! But in case you're not joking, let me say something about money.
In the beginnings, people would trade with each other, I give you berries, you give me your apples (now we have iPods).

But, with money, I give you berries, and you give me your money, with which I can buy whatever I want, not just trade with something you have.
Money is a great invention, without which there would be many dead and starved people...

200 years ago average people would have to work 12 hours a day just to barely feed themselves or their family, and now there is so much wealth (in the developed world anyway), thanks to technologies such as industrial revolution, computers etc. that people have not only money for their basic needs, but they can buy cars, computers etc.

Yes... so much wealth in the "developed" world!!

That’s the reason why there is over 400 million Africans living in poverty (And lets not forget that UN counts poverty as anyone living on less than a dollar a day)

And yes... most people probably did work 12 hour days to survive 200 years ago. But at least it was the same for everyone. You now have people in the undeveloped countries working 18hour days in factories so that we can wear Nike trainers and Gap jumpers.

Oh yes 5% of the world’s population live in great wealth on the back of the other 95%

Wealth is growing exponentially, and new technologies in the future, such as A.I., better working robots and better forms of energy can replace great part of hard work we humans do, so forecast for lazy people is good

Oh and I suppose you believe we are going to end up in some Star Trek type utopia!

I think not... There more "advanced" the "developed world" becomes the more we entrap people to a life of poverty. Too many people live in a bubble. We live in our nice big city’s with our flash cars and DVD's, MP3's etc... Every now and then we see a few shots on the news of people starving in Africa, Asia or any continent for that matter, and the most we do is mutter "oh yeah its terrible" and maybe drop a pound into a charity box. How many people bother to buy Fair Trade food? How many people bother recycling??

Please please do some research on how OTHER people live and stop just looking at the people around you in the office or at the Gym.

news.bbc.co.uk...

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.maketradefair.com...

www.globalissues.org...

[edit on 17-1-2005 by undercoverchef]

Oops - sorry post last msg twice

[edit on 17-1-2005 by undercoverchef]

Try getting some food in New York or London without money!

actually if you go to safeway or something its pretty easy to shoplift, you can do it on a daily basis those places are so big and crowded most of the time they will never notice you taking stuff. a good way to fight capitolism is to abuse it at every turn!

Originally posted by Osirisrisen The enemies of freedom are obvious. They are the ones that would like to create a "new world order".

Erm, excuse me, but it was Bush 41 on 11 September 1990 who said "New World Order" - 4 times.

go watch 9/11 the road to tyranny by alex jones (infowars.com) if you don't believe me.

you're caught in an illusion dude, chill out sit back and re-examine.

Originally posted by sturod84

Try getting some food in New York or London without money!

actually if you go to safeway or something its pretty easy to shoplift, you can do it on a daily basis those places are so big and crowded most of the time they will never notice you taking stuff. a good way to fight capitolism is to abuse it at every turn!

LOL - funny but then you will end up being arrested and have your DNA taken and put onto the DNA DataBase. Could also end up in prison and then they have won. Shoplifting is not a good way to protest

Ok, undercoverchef, I see you believe that rich countries are somehow guilty for their vast wealth, I am here to show you that this left-wing propaganda is not true.

What you have showed me are links about poverty in Africa, but do you want to know what's the real reason of poverty in Africa?

Let's start from Economic Freedom Index.

As you can see, ALL countries of Africa except SOUTH AFRICA are terribly poor and have low index of Economic Freedom.
Those countries are poor, not because of "evil corporations" or western countries, but because of their corrupted and incompetent governments who do not wish to improve poor climate for business.

This means that entrepreneurs and small business cannot get anything done, they cannot register a business easily and get it running.

Nigeria Economic Freedom Index - as you can see here, business climate is baaad, property rights are baaad.

In contrast see here record for South Africa Economic Freedom Index - it's pretty good.

Do you see now why South Africa isn't poor while its neighbors north are?

From CIA factbook about Nigerian economy, as a sample of African countries:
Oil-rich Nigeria, long hobbled by political instability, corruption, inadequate infrastructure, and poor macroeconomic management, is undertaking some reforms under the new civilian administration. Nigeria's former military rulers failed to diversify the economy away from overdependence on the capital-intensive oil sector, which provides 20% of GDP, 95% of foreign exchange earnings, and about 65% of budgetary revenues. The largely subsistence agricultural sector has failed to keep up with rapid population growth - Nigeria is Africa's most populous country - and the country, once a large net exporter of food, now must import food. Following the signing of an IMF stand-by agreement in August 2000, Nigeria received a debt-restructuring deal from the Paris Club and a $1 billion credit from the IMF, both contingent on economic reforms. Nigeria pulled out of its IMF program in April 2002, after failing to meet spending and exchange rate targets, making it ineligible for additional debt forgiveness from the Paris Club. The government has lacked the political will to implement the market-oriented reforms urged by the IMF, such as to modernize the banking system, to curb inflation by blocking excessive wage demands, and to resolve regional disputes over the distribution of earnings from the oil industry. During 2003, however, the government deregulated fuel prices and announced the privatization of the country's four oil refineries. GDP growth probably will rise marginally in 2004, led by oil and natural gas exports.

Nigeria Per Capita GDP - $900
Mozambique - purchasing power parity - $1,200 (2004 est.)
Zimbabwe - purchasing power parity - $1,900 (2004 est.)
South Africa - purchasing power parity - $10,700

So your claims that we are living "on the back" of underdeveloped world is simply not true, those countries are poor because their governments are terrible.

China's and India's economy are growing at 7-10% rate, and if you see CIA 2020 report here
www.worldchanging.com...
you can notice that situation for those countries is pretty good, and China already has purchasing power of about 6000$/year which is enough for food and things you need. In India for about 3-4k$/year pay you can have a car.

As for Star Trek Utopia, it's pretty good now actually, with iPods, internet, lots of food and clothing obtainable by average person. Most people don't even realize how good they are doing.
And I am not even in USA, I am a student in Croatia, country with about 4 times lower living standard (which doubled since it adopted western-style economic practices) than in EU or US because of 40 years of communism.
But now, thanks to your nice country and capitalism, I can make extra cash with software development.

By the way, donating to Africa wont accomplish much, because their infrastructure is too bad, most of the money will end up taxed to hell, it's not possible for a continent of millions to live off charity.


[edit on 17-1-2005 by Megaquad]

Originally posted by Tamahu

I second that motion.

~~~~
as far as topic 'Global Conspiracy'....
there is IMHO, a worldwide structure, program, model by which the masses are sapped of their life-blood & energies.

the Idyllic, Altruistic, freedom embracing Shamballah some think is their right & due course...is also a nebulous thing (like the conspiracy)
take these 3 meanings for instance:

+shamballah (spiritual): www.crystallinks.com...
+shamballah (mythic): anunda.com...
+shamballah (listen): shamballah.com...

In our recent history, we all collectively chose to join the Henry Ford assembly line model.
After 1st being 'numbed' by the sedating/euphoric coc aine in Coca-Cola
Then solaced by opium in the omnipresent 'Laudanum' Elixers for the average citizen(from civil war to WWI)

We then allowed the Edisons' electric-via-AC to become the means of parceled power(per KWHr)...doing away with Tesla's free-energy (?thru Schumann Resonance?)

Then reconciling and rationalizing Oppenheimers' AtomicBomb , and the Pandora's Box it opened! and growing more frightening every day with the Jihad and all.
Now, the frontier is nano-tech and bio-tech
"what do you have in your wallet?"[...ala David Spade]

all-in-all, TPTB generate power & wealth while you allow those inate, dormant powers to atrophy....they sell you the inferior but readily available, for a price, replacement 'Techno-powers'-->

humanities lost clairvoyance is techno-reliable color TVs & radios
humanities lost telepathy is techno-available cell phones etc
humanities lost telekinesis is techno-imbedded motion/light/sound sensors
humanities lost sixth-sense is techno-supported security products & market-timing models

yes, a heirarchy of worldwide 'pushers' dull, confound, confuse your senses...take their ' cut' at every step in the movement of all goods & services...allow you to pay to listen over the 'free' airwaves & telecasting
allow you to forever pay annual fees to hold onto property, drive, vote, breathe et al

)o( =poof !, its rationalized away by social-economic neo-darwinism, gdnt