End the voting scam

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Great! Then they don't have to volunteer to vote openly.

This is a circular argument. If everyone is not open voting then what is the point of doing it? It does not solve any of your issues.

Well, if my issue is that I want to make sure my vote is counted and accurately recorded, then it solves that problem.

No reason to head around the circle again. Accept that point and we're done.

In reference to the North Korea voting, closed elections would end the same. Surely we are not North Korea yet.

In reference to donations becoming public. I spent most of my life int he fiefdoms of small towns. In those scenarios it will be perceived as having tried to sway the direction of an election vs voting your personal conscience. To put it into perspective it would be like Soros funding Hillary. He's trying to sway direction of an electorate. Still, not right. As in, Soros just doesn't seem to be helping with all that money. People will want who they want and right now that is 90% about personality vs issues. Hard to put a shine on poop. This, by no means, is meant to lessen what happened to you because the pain and trauma makes you a believer.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Exit polls exist, in part, to help verify the accuracy of the vote. Accuracy is important to me.

They do? Exit polls are there to give you statistics on what the people questioned say to the pollsters. There is no way to accurately measure anyone's votes even without adding in the known fact that some people do not answer exit polls truthfully.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Well, if my issue is that I want to make sure my vote is counted and accurately recorded, then it solves that problem.

Except that is not the sole issue you have mentioned.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Exit polls exist, in part, to help verify the accuracy of the vote. Accuracy is important to me.

They do? Exit polls are there to give you statistics on what the people questioned say to the pollsters. There is no way to accurately measure anyone's votes even without adding in the known fact that some people do not answer exit polls truthfully.

Yes, they have historically been used for accuracy purposes. It used to be that exit polls would be used to CALL RACES.

After 2000, in Florida, we learned that exit polls aren't that accurate or reliable when they were used to call Florida for Gore. So most news stations don't rely on them anymore to call races.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Well, if my issue is that I want to make sure my vote is counted and accurately recorded, then it solves that problem.

Except that is not the sole issue you have mentioned.

So? Does that make the issue less-important?

originally posted by: EntirelySomeoneElse
After 2000, in Florida, we learned that exit polls aren't that accurate or reliable when they were used to call Florida for Gore. So most news stations don't rely on them anymore to call races.

Because people often do not tell the truth when polled.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
So? Does that make the issue less-important?

For you? no. For everyone else? Pretty much.

If this is only about you feeling better about your vote you are screaming in the wind. If this is about trying to effect some sort of massive voting reform it is not going to happen.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Apollumi

Do you honestly think there would not be huge problems with making everyone's vote public knowledge?

Say, oh I don't know, Chicago, or Philly. Miami. Places where politics of the dirtiest are played?

It's unlikely, maybe, that four burly guys are going to be knockin' on your door saying "Vote this way, or else..." No, probably not...

There'd be things like your kids being driven home from school by people they don't know. Dogs/Cats mysteriously getting sick or killed in the backyard...messages can be sent in many ways.

Kinda like Jury intimidation by the mob or gangs.

Mmm, maybe for somebody up the food chain that is expected to vote a certain way. They are going to vote the way that is expected anyway to show loyalty. That's my take from dealing with those folks so their vote being verified is a good thing for them.

Lets take Jane Doe out in a slightly rusted trailer with a grey washed out wooden deck in rural. They gonna harass her? They have the capacity to get to every single one of us? Are they going to harass every single person to vote a certain way? Are you honestly telling me that via diebold (etc) they do not know how you vote anyway? Or, are you saying once the jig is up then they would feel the need to do this to every single person in the nation? You saying that with the Internet that people would stay quiet and take this?

Shhhhh, the thought police will get ya....

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: EntirelySomeoneElse
After 2000, in Florida, we learned that exit polls aren't that accurate or reliable when they were used to call Florida for Gore. So most news stations don't rely on them anymore to call races.

Because people often do not tell the truth when polled.

Right. And in a voluntary open voting system, you'd always get the truth. People volunteer for exit polls...or not.

What's the substantive difference? I am not suggesting you be forced to vote openly. I'm confused why you are so dead against people having a choice and want to force your choice on them.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
So? Does that make the issue less-important?

For you? no. For everyone else? Pretty much.

If this is only about you feeling better about your vote you are screaming in the wind. If this is about trying to effect some sort of massive voting reform it is not going to happen.

You don't speak for pretty much everyone else and you know it.

Of course it won't ever happen, it would make the election system more transparent. Can't have that happening.

But I can still advocate for such a system.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Right. And in a voluntary open voting system, you'd always get the truth. People volunteer for exit polls...or not.

You would only 'get the truth' for the persons who opted in. There is no way to extrapolate that this would lead to more accurate polling results.

What's the substantive difference? I am not suggesting you be forced to vote openly. I'm confused why you are so dead against people having a choice and want to force your choice on them.

Where did I say that you should not be able to vote openly? I just think it is a really stupid idea.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
You don't speak for pretty much everyone else and you know it.

Of course it won't ever happen...

I will not happen because most people DO think like me. It is none of your or anyone else's business who I vote for.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

You don't speak for pretty much everyone else and you know it.

Actually he pretty much does speak for me. Because I agree whole-heartedly with him.

If you want your vote known, wear a button stating it. Leave me out.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Right. And in a voluntary open voting system, you'd always get the truth. People volunteer for exit polls...or not.

You would only 'get the truth' for the persons who opted in. There is no way to extrapolate that this would lead to more accurate polling results.

What's the substantive difference? I am not suggesting you be forced to vote openly. I'm confused why you are so dead against people having a choice and want to force your choice on them.

Where did I say that you should not be able to vote openly? I just think it is a really stupid idea.

You just argued that exit polls were inaccurate because people lie to pollsters. A very tiny fraction of the voters are asked to participate in exit polls. Under the system I suggested, EVERYONE would be given the option to participate or not and they would not be able to lie.

Great, you think it's stupid. I don't. That's the great thing about choice. If you think something is stupid, you don't have to participate.

a reply to: seagull

And the OP is for open voting.

This is all great support FOR voluntary open voting.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
You don't speak for pretty much everyone else and you know it.

Of course it won't ever happen...

I will not happen because most people DO think like me. It is none of your or anyone else's business who I vote for.

THEN DON'T VOLUNTEER TO VOTE OPENLY.

Wow.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Under the system I suggested, EVERYONE would be given the option to participate or not and the would not be able to lie.

And the vast majority would not participate and would still see people lying at exit polls. Problem not solved.

Great, you think it's stupid.

Good plans are realistic and implementable. This one has no chance unless we wake up in North Korea.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
THEN DON'T VOLUNTEER TO VOTE OPENLY.

Wow.

And because I, and the vast majority of people, will not the fact that a few people like yourself would decide to do it makes it pointless as a measurable commodity.