The scandal in Washington no one is talking about (Fast/Furious was about gun control)

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Do Obama, Hillary and a vast majority of Democrats support an assault weapons ban?

How many guns where banned, zero, but yea those evil commies are comming for your guns.


Obama and hillary pander to there voters, just like you get to cry about people coming for your guns, thats how the gop gets your vote lol.

Yeah...your right. That and our government illegally selling guns to Mexican, drug running criminals in hopes to subvert the Constitution of the United States of America because they support a dictatorship, socialism and in Obama's case...radical Islam.

But yeah...I guess it is just our little guns we care about

Your funny, obama behing a socialist, and you didint forget to add muslims lol.

Stop watching fox news, your brain will thank you.

Exactly what part of what I posted can you prove to be untrue? I'd really like to know unless you're just blowing smoke. Prove your point so we all know your not full of it. Unless, of course...you can't.

I dont need to try to prove anything, the more you post the less work i need to do, google the word socialist, then without laughing tell me how obama is a commie.

Durp durp durp

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Do Obama, Hillary and a vast majority of Democrats support an assault weapons ban?

How many guns where banned, zero, but yea those evil commies are comming for your guns.


Obama and hillary pander to there voters, just like you get to cry about people coming for your guns, thats how the gop gets your vote lol.

Yeah...your right. That and our government illegally selling guns to Mexican, drug running criminals in hopes to subvert the Constitution of the United States of America because they support a dictatorship, socialism and in Obama's case...radical Islam.

But yeah...I guess it is just our little guns we care about

Your funny, obama behing a socialist, and you didint forget to add muslims lol.

Stop watching fox news, your brain will thank you.

Exactly what part of what I posted can you prove to be untrue? I'd really like to know unless you're just blowing smoke. Prove your point so we all know your not full of it. Unless, of course...you can't.

I dont need to try to prove anything, the more you post the less work i need to do, google the word socialist, then without laughing tell me how obama is a commie.

Durp durp durp

Obama is indisputably a commie.
www.commieblaster.com...-14549

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Do we go after the alcohol manufacturers because some dumb @ss drinks irresponsibly and kills people with their car? Hell, doesn't that make the car manufacturer also responsible? I could kill someone with a spoon if I wanted.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Heck, I have been saying this all along, and even the Mexican President was claiming alongside the Obama administration that "they didn't know this operation was running"... BS, I would have to find the links I posted in the forums before, but a U.S. government official part of the Obama administration went on record saying the Mexican government knew about this operation from the start. But the Mexican President, alongside the Obama administration, were claiming that these weapons came at the hands of the Mexican drug cartel "because of the lax gun laws in the U.S."... This has been a ruse from the start to make the American public believe that we need gun control, or an outright gun ban.

The story doesn't end there either, what I wonder the most is why no Senator has put together the fact that the Obama administration has been working overtime to allow more illegal criminals into the U.S., and Obama has given direct orders to ICE agents to release these criminals...

If you make a google or youtube search on "illegal immigrant kills with gun" you will find several examples of these illegal criminals murdering, or attempting to murder Americans and other legal residents.

The entire Obama administration should be put on trial for willingly setting illegal criminals free, and running operations like "fast and Furious", and btw, according to another official there seems to have been, or to be other operations running all over the U.S. similar to Fast and Furious.

The Obama administration was to put the United States in a state of chaos for the next stage to the global elites plans so they can implement more laws to simply control every aspect of people's lives.

Here we go, another earlier operation similar to Fast and Furious was code named "wide receiver".

By Sari Horwitz October 6, 2011

Republican lawmakers for eight months have been leading the probe into “Fast and Furious,” the controversial ATF gun operation, and trying to determine who in President Obama’s Justice Department knew what, and when they knew it.

But it turns out there was another gun operation run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives years before, using the same tactics of allowing guns to flow illegally onto U.S. streets and into Mexico. This operation was conducted under the Bush administration’s Justice Department.
...
Operation Wide Receiver came to light when Rep. Darryl Issa (R-Calif.) and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) released new documents and e-mails this week which they said showed that although Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. told Congress in May that he had just learned about Fast and Furious, he had known for about 10 months.

www.washingtonpost.com...

That operation was conducted under the Bush administration.

Those emails should prove that Eric Holder knew about the Fast and Furious operation 10 months before he claimed in front of Congress that he didn't know about it.

Obama has indeed set some new kind of record for being the most treasonous and despicable human being to ever enter the white house with fast and furious being indefensible in any way. He deserves capitol punishment and he is still trying to do even more treasonous acts against all Americans. He attempted to classify information to hide the illegal actions of his administration, and has probably succeeded at it.

If he opened up and revealed all that he has done in the shadows, even his most loyal followers would want to see him hang. People who voice these true facts are called "anti-government" types in the media, which is also a lie. The entire label was made to minimize those calling out corruption in government.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Wide receiver started in 2006 and ended in 2007, resulting in 450 guns walking across the border where interdiction / continued surveillance was picked up by Mexican authorities (where they lost track of them). No charges were brought (that im aware of) because the USADA was concerned about the way the criminal cases were conducted by law enforcement.

Ironic the Obama administration would try to blame Bush for a program that ended in 2007.

Also the facts show a difference in focus between the Bush program and Obama's program, where Bush was focused on the cartels and Obama was focused on obliterating the Constitution.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Xcathdra

Now we know why Obama invoked executive privilege to try and prevent these communications from becoming public (and in my opinion he should be impeached / charged). It also explains why the replacement for Holder was someone close to his ideology / political background.

How is this not the biggest news story of the century?
Running an illegal gun operation to swing publuc opinion against the Second Amendment is an attempt subvert the US Constitution, imo.

The Democratic Party has every intention of destroying the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights by "amending" them.
That's why they cannot be allowed to win in November 2016.

The Dems will control SCOTUS, the Senate, legalize the 15 million Illegals so they can vote, and the US will NEVER recover.

originally posted by: Hr2burn
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Do we go after the alcohol manufacturers because some dumb @ss drinks irresponsibly and kills people with their car? Hell, doesn't that make the car manufacturer also responsible? I could kill someone with a spoon if I wanted.

And if spoons didn't have a primary function other than killing/injuring people I'm sure they would be banned.

Stop hiding behind your misinterpretation of the 2nd. It gives you NO rights to own a gun for self-defence. So unless you plan on forming this long-lost militia I suggest you open your eyes at how the rest of the civilised world works and why your country is so backwards. Hopefully before another one of your schools gets massacred.

a reply to: SudoNim

Stop hiding behind your misinterpretation of the 2nd. It gives you NO rights to own a gun for self-defence.

Possession of the weapon does though.

So unless you plan on forming this long-lost militia I suggest you open your eyes at how the rest of the civilised world works and why your country is so backwards.

Don't need a militia.
You can come from your 'forward thinking' country and take my weapon. Just do it in an unarmed condition, like you forward thinkers propose is best.

Oh, and regarding school 'massacres'.....
Do a Google search sometime and check school shootings vs playground deaths.
Somehow it isn't a massacre when playground equipment kills more kids.

a reply to: butcherguy

Google the word massacre and then understand how ridiculous your statement is.

Comparing a gun to a spoon, are you serious? Why don't you try leaving your country with those precious guns of yours? Or are you too paranoid to leave your own country?

The thing you fail to grasp is that accidents happen when using items and equipment, sometimes fatally, these are the risks involved but they have a purpose. The purpose of your weapons is to kill people.

You aren't protecting your family by owning a gun. You are far more likely in your lifetime to shoot someone from your own family than you ever are to shoot someone threatening your family.

By owning a gun YOU are the larger threat to your family.

originally posted by: SudoNim
a reply to: butcherguy

Google the word massacre and then understand how ridiculous your statement is.

Comparing a gun to a spoon, are you serious? Why don't you try leaving your country with those precious guns of yours? Or are you too paranoid to leave your own country?

The thing you fail to grasp is that accidents happen when using items and equipment, sometimes fatally, these are the risks involved but they have a purpose. The purpose of your weapons is to kill people.

You aren't protecting your family by owning a gun. You are far more likely in your lifetime to shoot someone from your own family than you ever are to shoot someone threatening your family.

By owning a gun YOU are the larger threat to your family.

You don't care about lives.
You care about abolishing guns.... which is impossible to accomplish.
Do yourself a favor and stay far away from our terribly dangerous shores.

Stop hiding behind your misinterpretation of the 2nd. It gives you NO rights to own a gun for self-defence.

Man, you are either incredibly misinformed, or intentionally misleading readers who might not know better.

Lets see what the U.S.C. says, we'll for the sake of ease ignore hundred plus years of precedence and interpretation and go to a recent, more "fresh" interpretation of the 2'nd Amendment.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution applies to federal enclaves and protects an individual's right to possess a firearm

So, here we have a recent ruling in which individuals, Johnny Q. Public, A.K.A. 'The People' have the right to bear armaments. But for what purpose, what reasons are there to own arms ? What does the interpretation give as an example for reasonable ownership ?

for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense

So, again the example given for reasonable ownership of arms, is Self-Defense...

Now you could rebuttal, Crawling that only says you can have weapons for self-defense on federal lands, but what about the rest of the country ? Glad you asked ! Again we'll ignore a hundred plus years of precedence and interpretation for the sake of "current events" and go with another recent, "fresh" ruling.

McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010), is a landmark[1] decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states.

So, the protections of the second amendment are provided both ON AND OFF federal lands, for lawful purposes ; Like Self-defense.... Just as aside I find it funny the one almost unarguable reason to own a gun, Is the one reason/right for owning it we cannot execute according to you..

Crawling, what about some older views on the right to bear arms, and for what reasons. Well lets look to some documents that were inspiration to, preceded and even molded the 2nd amendments authoring. Somethng along the lines of British common law, and the 1689 Bill of Rights.

The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.

- Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England - Book the First - Chapter the First: Of the Absolute Rights of Individuals, page 139". Avalon.law.yale.edu.

So again, the very point of contention about the right of owning a fire-arm for self-defense is once more indisputable. It also lists some other things, like oppression and what'not but lets stick to what YOU are completely misinformed about. Ok Crawling you got one example from antiquity certainly there are no others.

United States vs. Cruikshank (1876) the U.S.C. ruled that self defense was a natural-right (God Given Right) and that, the Right to bear arms for self-defense was NOT "in any manner dependent upon that instrument (The Constitution) for its existence".


I've prolly taken up enough of everyone's time, but Sir you are completely wrong.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yep, you are right on that one Xcathdra, it was Bush who stated emphatically that the Second Amendment guarantees the right of every American to keep and bear arms. Not only did Bush state emphatically that the second Amendment discussed a right of the people as individuals, but his Supreme court appointee Chief Justice John Roberts struck down a 32-year-old Washington, D.C. ban on handguns as incompatible with the Second Amendment.

www.npr.org...

But you can bet the Obama administration will continue to go after the second Amendment and the right of the people as individuals to keep and bear arms...

Heck, he will probably come with up another directive imposing his will and disarming the law abiding amongst the people.

BTW, apologies for the delay, here are the links and excerpts I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

By Sharyl Attkisson CBS News December 7, 2011, 7:20 PM

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.
PICTURES: ATF "Gunwalking" scandal timeline

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.
...
The Gun Dealers' Quandary

Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.

Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.

www.cbsnews.com...

One of the articles showing what the Mexican government was stating...

Mike Piccione
Editor, Guns & Gear
12:47 PM 04/10/2012


By Larry Keane, Senior Vice President & General Counsel, National Shooting Sports Foundation

During his recent visit to the White House, Mexico President Felipe Calderon renewed his call for a U.S. assault weapons ban as a solution to the drug cartel-caused violence that plagues his country. He also claimed, according to columnist Bill Press, that violence levels are directly related to the number of guns in circulation. Both of these assertions are demonstrably false.
...

dailycaller.com...

Here is what the Mexican government claimed about whether they knew or not about Fast and Furious.

MEXICO: U.S. has yet to explain Fast and Furious to Mexico, official says
September 22, 2011 | 1:43 pm

REPORTING FROM MEXICO CITY -- The United States government has yet to brief Mexican authorities on the failed Fast and Furious gun-running operation that led to scores of American weapons being smuggled purposefully into a raging drug war, Mexico's top law enforcement official told The Times.

"At no time did we know or were we made aware that there might have been arms trafficking permitted," said Atty. Gen. Marisela Morales in comments from a recent interview with Times reporters published Tuesday. "In no way would we have allowed it, because it is an attack on the safety of Mexicans."

Morales said she first learned about the program -- which U.S. officials contend was meant to trace weapons up cartel ranks to top capos -- through news reports.
...

latimesblogs.latimes.com...

Yet according to U.S. officials, such as special agent William Newell, the Mexican government knew about Fast and Furious.

...
3. Mexico Knew About Fast and Furious

Andrew Selee, vice president for programs at the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington D.C. says the Mexican government was aware of the gun-walking, in spite of releasing a statement saying they were not. William Newell, the special agent in charge of ATF's Phoenix field division and one of the supervisors of Fast and Furious, told Univision, via his attorney, that the Procuraduria General De La Republica (PGR) in Mexico was certainly aware of the operation.
...

abcnews.go.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What the Obama administration claimed despite them knowing the contrary...

Obama blames American guns for Mexican deaths: ‘Most of the guns used to commit violence here in Mexico come from the United States’

The president omitted mention of Operation Fast and Furious, his Department of Justice’s program that ‘walked’ thousands of guns across the border.

By David Martosko

Published: 16:03 EST, 3 May 2013 | Updated: 22:10 EST, 3 May 2013

President Obama used a speech at Mexico’s Museo Nacional de Antropología – the National Anthropology Museum – to claim that ‘most of the guns used to commit violence here in Mexico come from the United States.’

‘I think many of you know that in America, our Constitution guarantees our individual right to bear arms,’ Obama said. ‘And as president, I swore an oath to uphold that right, and I always will.’

‘But at the same time, as I’ve said in the United States, I will continue to do everything in my power to pass common-sense reforms that keep guns out of the hands of criminals and dangerous people.’
...

Link

Apparently Obama's vision of "passing common-sense reforms and keeping guns out of criminals" is to order ICE to release illegal criminals, and for his administration to willingly arm the Mexican drug cartel with American firearms...

The Mexican government, and the Obama government worked together arming the Mexican drug cartels with firearms from the U.S. to claim that the drug cartels were arming themselves "because of American lax gun laws"...

a reply to: SudoNim

What country are you from if you dont mind me asking.

a reply to: CrawlingChaos

Did you just create your own arguments so you could rebuttal them? Thank you for answering your own questions, I'm sure it was very enlightening for you.

As for the point I actually made, you lost at "Lets see what the U.S.C. says, we'll for the sake of ease ignore hundred plus years of precedence and interpretation and go to a recent, more "fresh" interpretation of the 2nd Amendment."

Basically, ignore what it really means and use the one that fits your agenda. You all kick up such a fuss about them trying to infringe upon the 2nd Amendment, YOU ALREADY DID when you bastardised the term "well-regulated militia".

a reply to: C8H10N4O2

Actually, you can find Operation Gunwalker within the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. That same one that placed a sign over every pothole fill in job that year. Also the same one Obama made a big deal about signing with a dozen pens at the Denver Airport. The same one that the "shovel ready jobs" was all about that made me quip, "yeah, gravediggers."

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Xcathdra

But you can bet the Obama administration will continue to go after the second Amendment and the right of the people as individuals to keep and bear arms...

Right of people as individuals? Don't you mean well-regulated militia?

Or has the 2nd Amendment been changed to fit an agenda?