Charlotte Observer: Girls must overcome ‘discomfort’ of seeing ‘male genitalia’ in locker ro

a reply to: luthier

Public schools shelter kids from the REAL WORLD.

Same thing when they go to college and universities.

Thats why so many people can not function properly in today's society.

The sooner people get that maybe this country will have a future.

a reply to: samerulesapply

Likewise. It's a tough situation. You shouldn't abandon your own opinions though they are valid. If more people could come to the table though like this we would be able to figure out how to acknowledge peoples fearsnon both sides.

I am just as much at fault because I see these issues with faces and it gets me worked up.

a reply to: Gryphon66

People said the exact same thing about gays, lesbians and bi's?

What...hwo did that work?

It's unfair to lump gays, lesbians and bi's in with gays, lesbians and bi's!

Please explain, as this doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

It's not about our beliefs, and for the most part, it's not about expressing our beliefs or being prevented from doing so, even if they are in some respects bigoted.

Any statement of strong belief is likely bigoted in some way. I, for example, fully own that I am bigoted toward bigots.

This issue is not about any of that really though. We get caught up in it, because that's what we've been conditioned to do.

This issue is about the rule-of-law. It is about equality before the law. And that is all.

a reply to: neo96

Sure.

But so do religious people who pretend these alternatives to their lifestyle doesn't exist and have rights as well.

For me as a classical liberal it seems obvious. Everyone has rights. If your not waving your manhood around in the ladies room leave it be.

a reply to: luthier

You ain't at fault, just being decent...honestly mate, you're fine.

I don't mean to be rude or offend you, nothing I can say will detract from who you are and what you are. Maybe I am a bigoted dinosaur, I never knew any trans people.

I've known some homosexual folk over the years but I never felt like anyone was actually trying to convince me of anything or steer me in any particular direction.

Maybe if I was younger and grew up a little later, or knew some trans people personally it would make me feel differently...maybe there's no right or wrong and what we need to do is, as you say...stop squabbling and work as a unit.

No harm intended...think I'll bail on this, no point.

I'm too stubborn sometimes, not always an admirable quality so I'll call it quits.

Thanks.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
a reply to: Gryphon66

People said the exact same thing about gays, lesbians and bi's?

What...hwo did that work?

It's unfair to lump gays, lesbians and bi's in with gays, lesbians and bi's!

Please explain, as this doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Homosexuals (gays, lesbians) and bisexuals along with trans* folks have historically been labelled as mentally ill.

That is one of the similar injustices that bring us all together for cohesive political action.

If you really don't understand that, look up the history of sodomy laws, compulsive electroshock and sterilization for homosexuals, etc. etc.

a reply to: luthier

I'm not certain on this point, (nor is it important) but you're not LGBT ... are you? (Ignore this if inappropriate.)

You're simply a person speaking out against injustice, right?

I don't want anyone to be confused about who you are, just because you're standing up for what's right.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: luthier

I'm not certain on this point, (nor is it important) but you're not LGBT ... are you? (Ignore this if inappropriate.)

You're simply a person speaking out against injustice, right?

I don't want anyone to be confused about who you are, just because you're standing up for what's right.

Hehe. I would be pretty hetero on the Kinsey scale. Just a strait white male. Married three kids. Libertarian leaning, Diest/panthiest.

a reply to: luthier

Understood. That's what I thought I remembered from reading your posts over the years.

It's funny, that you get lumped in with all us "perverts" though, if you're not careful, when you speak out for equal rights.

Just wanted to drop in a decent primer for anyone who's interested in understanding the history of some of these claims made here:

The History of Psychiatry and Homosexuality

At least some of you can know the basis of your beliefs.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Hey I am in it for the long haul man. You can call me gay all day long it doesn't effect me.

I have lived a weird life. I spent my early years exceptional at judo and wrestling so much so I was able to travel internationally in college with teams. Yet I was a philosophy major and musician and now I make guitars. There isn't a single thing except guy stuff I do that fits in a box so good luck trying to call me names.

I also think as long as you don't effect other people's rights like using bathrooms you can have what ever ideas you want. If you want to hate gays and don't effect their liberty then fine. I have an issue when a person thinks their beliefs can trump another's right to a good life (as long as it doesn't trample someone else's personal liberty).


So for the religious I hear you life is changing bit you have to respect the existence of some things that make you uncomfortable.

I also think they should be able to use their tax money to go to schools that fit their beliefs. I think there are always solutions. We just need to understand compromise is not an option. We all have to live here. Give people the space to be what they are. Even religious people if they don't want to make gay wedding cakes. Let them attach themselves to a church or something so gau people know not to bother with them.

Crap I don't know. I just hate seeing so much veiled conversation. This is about beliefs and accepting trans people into society without persecution. Yet they keep pulling the perv card.

Meanwhile another conservative religious leader got busted as a diddler last week. Your much more likely to be abused by a family or church member than in a bathroom by a perv dressed like Ms doubtfire. Sad as it is.

a reply to: luthier

It's really simple when you get down to it.

"Live and let live."

Thanks for sharing your history and thoughts. That's hella brave in the shark-tank ...

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I've seen pictures of nudist wave pools in Europe. What's the being deal?

Fun da mental

Right wing Nazi Christian tactics always has a counter balance.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No prob. I could care less what people say ad hominem wise.

I do like a good debater chronaught (SP) is a very smart religious person. I could go a few rounds and get busted up there.

I was a philosophy major. I had to debate formally positions all the time. Even though it was years ago it stuck with me. Most people aren't very good at it here. Some a very good adversaries and others I have had real understanding and made compromise of arguement over.

It's worth discussing when topics can effect other people's lives and freedom.

a reply to: luthier

Agreed.

On this issue, and many others, I often forget to make it clear that I am defending one side of a position.

Usually I agree with that position, but sometimes, I argue the other side just to "keep my hand in."

The ability to critically think about issues regardless of our beliefs is amazingly important.

Especially these days.

For example, I can understand how the letter to schools from the Obama Administration has been conflated with efforts to litigate against the North Carolina "bathroom bill."

If you notice here, these two relatively separate issues are basically mixed and matched.

Medical science has accepted that people have different gender identities. The courts have accepted that these folks have rights to be who they are. I can understand all too well the need to keep kids safe, but let's keep them ALL safe.

When we start reducing freedom and liberty down to what's good the majority over any minority ... that's a historically dangerous road to travel on.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It's not about our beliefs, and for the most part, it's not about expressing our beliefs or being prevented from doing so, even if they are in some respects bigoted.

Any statement of strong belief is likely bigoted in some way. I, for example, fully own that I am bigoted toward bigots.

This issue is not about any of that really though. We get caught up in it, because that's what we've been conditioned to do.

This issue is about the rule-of-law. It is about equality before the law. And that is all.

No it is not about rule of law, it's about twisting the law to suit a radical agenda. Look at title IV .... www.nationalreview.com...

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It's not about our beliefs, and for the most part, it's not about expressing our beliefs or being prevented from doing so, even if they are in some respects bigoted.

Any statement of strong belief is likely bigoted in some way. I, for example, fully own that I am bigoted toward bigots.

This issue is not about any of that really though. We get caught up in it, because that's what we've been conditioned to do.

This issue is about the rule-of-law. It is about equality before the law. And that is all.

No it is not about rule of law, it's about twisting the law to suit a radical agenda. Look at title IV .... www.nationalreview.com...

I have looked at Title IX, associated Federal and State laws, and the US Constituion.

The only "radical agenda" at play here is standing up to Republican authoritarians who want to act as the Pee Police.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Annee

I know Europe can handle co ed bathrooms etc but I think American culture is not able to handle this change at this time. The way Europeans treat nudity is so much different than American and Canadian culture.

No clue what you are refering to. I live in one of the most liberal European countries you can name and we dont have public co-ed bathrooms.

originally posted by: Miracula2
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I've seen pictures of nudist wave pools in Europe. What's the being deal?

Fun da mental

Right wing Nazi Christian tactics always has a counter balance.

You have seen pictures...
Any nudist area you find in Europe is very clearly separated and assigned for that. Those are areas you can enter by choice alone.