Pope Francis compared ISIS to Jesus sending his disciples to all nations "the same idea of conquest"

a reply to: 2012newstart

There is no need for unification of religions, but there is a need, one that the current Pope understands, to be realistic about the actuality of the initial spread of Christianity, by Roman swords and physical conquest, about the horrors that were wrought during the various Inquisitions that were enacted over the years, the immoral acts of previous Popes and powerful cardinals, and how those acts did NOT differ in their evil from the actions of ISIS IN THE LEAST, because sin is sin, no matter how excused, or who commits it.

He is an actual Christian, and has no apology to make. I would posit that those who wish an apology from him, might need to examine their faith more closely, and reconsider whether they love Christ, or only the dogma and exceptionalism that seems to come with membership of the club. The log in their eyes may be obscuring their ability to see things clearly.

a reply to: 2012newstart

He is talking about the principle behind spreading a religion around the world. Religion sometimes only works if you bring fear into the concept of not converting or accepting it.

a reply to: 2012newstart

He sounds so slick and erudite . . .

and no doubt, considers himself a "Christian."

I have my doubts about that.

originally posted by: pointr97
this is the last time i post on this forum......ATS has jumped the shark. Thank you for the years of information, but I'm not seeing that anymore, nor am I seeing the ability to interact. Peace out, and remember, stock up.

Yeah I said that several times so far...but I sense your motivation this time. If we are approaching End times, there is no reason to share anymore thoughts to unnamed crowd out there, only to be registered by inquisitors.

However, I strongly hope in a Rapture event before the worst of the End times start. It might be presented as extraterrestrial contact though.
I have nothing more to comment for that failed pope who was the cause of scandal words and their interpretations many times for his 3 years. Many times I tried to find the good side of his words, pretty much the way my opponents in this thread do. But it won't change. A man in the system, he says things to be heard, not by mistake. It will continue with the next ambiguous interview, with the next homily, until God-known end. The good side is, he is only talking. After all, he is a 79 year old man, with his own problems and illnesses, who can sin as everyone of us. Only, we are not popes and cardinals... A big gaffe that is not the first and not the last for Francis.

Compared, Benedict accused the Muslim religion of being violent. Just the opposite. And he drew worldwide criticism from the very active Muslims. Francis is unlikely to reap the same amount of rightful criticism from the passive Christians. Is that NWO? I don't know and don't care anymore. For me, the change trumped by Francis and the cardinals who elected him in 2013, is DEAD.

a reply to: 2012newstart

From the quoted text in your OP:

It is true that the idea of conquest is inherent in the soul of Islam. However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest.

ISIS wasn't the comparison the Pope made. He's talking about conquest through proselytizing and conversion and how Christianity seeks to do this too as according to Matthew, the Disciples were commanded to do.

originally posted by: RockofTruth
He's a false pope. He's a pope of this satanic world. But not a leader of any kind in the body of Christ. It makes me sick every time I see him in the news. ISSIS is carrying out genocide on Christians. Islam itself is seeking to destroy Christianity all together and the so called pope sides with them and the world and never speaks out against their evil. I can't wait for Jesus to sit in Judgement over this pope! I feel like Caiaphas will get more mercy then this so called pope will!

Perhaps like obama he too follows islam.

a reply to: Kali74

I still have a hard time to grasp what happened the day before (that we learned today from internet). Yes I could make errors interpreting what the pope said. I am not pope.

The problem is not that he wants to excuse the immigrants, many of whom come from terrible time, if not all of them. (we all saw pictures of mothers and children among the predominantly male contingent).

The problem here is that the pope questions the mission of Jesus he mandated to his disciples. Notice, the pope doesn't question the crusades centuries later, that apparently were historical mistake. He questions the idea that Jesus sent the disciples. If so, why not to question the entire mission of Jesus incarnated on earth?

If the pope said, look the gospel of Mary Magdalene was right, and she was the wife of Jesus, that wouldn't change the mission of Jesus. There are many people who would accept that version.

Francis said many controversial things. Far not only of economic models. For example, what's wrong if a Martian with green ears comes to be baptized? Theoretically it doesn't contradict the Gospel, as it didn't contradict the baptism of indigenous peoples centuries ago, who differed from the Europeans.

This time Francis goes much farther than interpretations. He says something that contradicts the very essence of being Christian follower of Jesus Christ.

If it fits well to a multi-cultural society that is secular? I guess, no, because ISIS was involved. Although not direct saying that Jesus was like ISIS, one cannot have such comparison in one paragraph, and that someone to be no other else but the roman pope. It doesn't fit, even for secular Europe.

Let alone that most Europeans wouldn't like to breed with immigrants for a number of reasons.

Is this the latest message of Francis after lauded for promoting peace and acceptance between races and religions? What we see is not an effort to accept Muslims in France or elsewhere. Because many thousands if not millions of French people (French catholic newspaper) as well as others, would feel rather offended. Especially if they are Catholic who are supposed to listen to, if not to obey words that are in no way "ex cathedra" or infallible.

Francis did a wrong step. A small step for man, a giant leap for humankind. Towards the abyss. STill he could correct himself and papacy in Jesuit manner, to explain he meant the opposite. I believe after the uproar in other sites with 2000+ comments on the same news and almost no one positive, those red hats in Vatican will decide it is a time for correction of course. Or...they all go down with the same Titanic.

BTW I am not that sure that is the End times rather the next episode of Star Wars. I say that for the sake of those who would fear to death the possibility to be persecuted by the antichrist. Calm down, there were many antichrists in history. Not everyone got killed by them. Even if we are in the time of the last int he row, still not everyone of us will be martyr. Like the first martyrs that Francis practically criticized for their mission to witness the Gospel, and compared to the brutality of ISIS.

I doubt a simple apology will be enough to clear that mess. It is not the first time for Francis, but it is the biggest time so far. May be it is a time to start thinking what happens after the 79 year old Francis steps down one day. After all he is not semi-god or immortal. If he is mortal man, he is prone to error. Such interviews are nothing like infallible. They only ruin the remaining portion of faith in too many people. Is it the real goal?

a reply to: 2012newstart

The problem here is that the pope questions the mission of Jesus he mandated to his disciples. Notice, the pope doesn't question the crusades centuries later, that apparently were historical mistake. He questions the idea that Jesus sent the disciples. If so, why not to question the entire mission of Jesus incarnated on earth?

Where does the Pope question the mission? He is still a missionary himself...

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: 2012newstart

The problem here is that the pope questions the mission of Jesus he mandated to his disciples. Notice, the pope doesn't question the crusades centuries later, that apparently were historical mistake. He questions the idea that Jesus sent the disciples. If so, why not to question the entire mission of Jesus incarnated on earth?

Where does the Pope question the mission? He is still a missionary himself...

Pope Francis: Today, I don’t think that there is a fear of Islam as suchbut of ISIS and its war of conquest, which is partly drawn from Islam. It is true that theidea of conquest is inherent in the soul of Islam. However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest.

the mission of Jesus that He mandated to His poor disciples (not to the crusaders!) was neither "the same idea" nor "conquest" compared to that of Muslim invasions in history, and lastly, of that of ISIS. That comparison annuls the very foundation of the Christian belief based on the mandate of Jesus received by the Father, which He in turn gave to the disciples upon ending His physical mission on Earth.

If a priest would have said that, he would be long banned from preaching. A former archbishop of Buenos Aires would never speak like that, or he wouldn't be promoted cardinal and would have to retire sooner. If a cardinal already, he would never speak like that, because no one would have voted for him. Church knows of retired cardinals for much lesser offenses. When a pope says that, he is...printed, and some cheer up. It remains his view to be made the official view of the Catholic Church or the European Union, God forbids!

Well, I am not going to promote other sites, but there the comments are very different. And that really makes me reach the end point of my own participation in the discussion. All is already said. Unless some new development comes from Vatican.

Mark 16

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Matthew 28

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Francis is correct that the great commission can be interpreted as a mission of conquest, and he would be right. How else does one interpret the command to proselytize and convert the world? That is conquest, in the name of Christ.

Onward Christian soldiers.

a reply to: 2012newstart

The Pope doesn't once question the mission. He says that it's possible for the mission to be interpreted as one of conquest... which in fact it has many times, not just in The Crusades.

a reply to: 2012newstart

The question rises, on which side the pope is?

Let's see...

The Pope makes a rational statement showing that he understands history and our current situation - all of which is complicated

First thing you think of is allegiance. Which is - not so complicated

Mankind is ****ing doomed

a reply to: Klassified

I answer, only because I intended to edit my previous post with that same phrase. Let know what Francis just rejected as mission of Jesus:

Matthew 28:18-20King James Version (KJV) 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

If it was not the pope but some unbelieving politician or whatever, it would be understandable. The problem is, the pope the head of the half of world Christians, says that. The above words have nothing to do with the 6th century Muslim invasion that continues until this very day, now thru ISIS. Jesus never ever commanded any such "idea" even less "conquest".

This time Francis Bergoglio did it very wrong. Perhaps the college of cardinals have uneasy week since the publication in the French influential catholic newspaper. Perhaps until now they discuss what to do next. Frankly, it is better to give the red light NOW and not after a new doctrine or dogma has been coined by Francis. He already showed how far he is ready to go.

I decide to obey Jesus no matter what.

Crusaders, no honest Christian today would approve the darkest pages of Christian and world history. But Bergoglio doesn't talk of that, nor of inquisition. He targets Jesus himself this time. I hope it won't go without consequence for the billion wide Church. I am not going to bet my life even less my soul on that man! He promotes Evil as Good, and makes the Good looking like equal to Evil! Palpatine is a good example how that would work projected in future.

a reply to: 2012newstart

The Pope did not say Jesus commanded to go forth and invade, he is making the comparison that humans throughout history and even currently, have taken the mission of Jesus either unintentionally or manipulatively and used it to invade much like SOME followers of Islam have done and continue to do.

a reply to: 2012newstart

In addition 2012newstart - I just read the entire interview - did you?

That just did me a lot of good

Honestly...

a reply to: 2012newstart

I hope it won't go without consequence for the billion wide Church.

Or...you could "hope"(and pray) for his forgiveness, and that he will be given understanding and wisdom.

Not that I believe in such things, but it would seem the Christian thing to do in this instance, instead of hoping for dire consequences.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Of course not!

Reading the entire thing before forming a contrary viewpoint, would make it impossible to retain the dogmatic and divisive mindset. Who would honestly engage with such a thing, other than a heretic (someone who loves his fellow human beings well, rather than as a mere exercise of faith)?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: 2012newstart

I suppose we can't blame all Catholics for this loon, but they did make this man their leader. Why is it only insane, evil humans come into positions of power?

Just want to point out, as a regular ol' Sunday mass attending Catholic..... THEY chose him as the leader, not us regular folk.

I didn't know who this falla was when they elevated him to Pope and at first, he seemed like a great choice. He seemed humble and sincere and all that.

My personal problem with him is that his vision seems so limited on the issues. He seems only to be able to see one side of the proverbial coin.

Example: He comes the North America and essentially says that the United States should open their arms to their neighbors to the South. That, in and of itself, I don't have much of an issue with. However, if he would look at the bigger picture he would (and should) have addressed the REASON so many people want to flee South and Central America. He said NOTHING about the cartels running the show. He said NOTHING about the corruption down there. He seems to always go after the soft target and ignores the root causes of things.

Although I had zero part in his selection as Pope, as a Catholic, I apologize to the rest of the world. I'm sorry that my Church has unleashed this guy into the world.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Just stating the obvious. Europe has a declining population of a few kids or zero children and migrants can have up to 12. You will see a huge decline in the native European population in the next few decades.

a reply to: eluryh22

Are you sure he didn't address the violence and corruption that drives people to the US border?