EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

The plane might be scattered in a large area if it was a bomb.
If so, it will not be easy to find the black boxes.

As a historical side note flight 804 went silent near the same latitude and longitude that a famous oil tanker was torpedoed.
The SS Murex was the first large oiler that opened middle eastern oil via the Suez canal, probably an integral part part of Theodor Hertzls 1894 dream?

originally posted by: WeSbO

originally posted by: redshoes
IMO the plane is in the sea. It was a terrorist act. The authorities know it, but they don't want to call it yet publicly while they are racing to catch up with whoever was behind this.

That makes no sense to me, if that was the case they wouldn't have started talking about terrorist attacks, or confirming a crash right from the beginning, they would have just said "still missing, might have crashed here" well just following standard procedure.

Well, the "they" you refer to is the media, and the media quoting various shadowy or non-existent "unnamed sources".

Sadly, you've made a huge leap of faith with your assertion, and this leap of faith is that the media itself is not complicit with the fear-mongering which is the very heart and soul of terrorism. On the contrary, they very much are; terrorists rely on the media to spread conjecture, fear and lies far and wide in the absence of facts. The media is hand and glove with the terrorists. Finding a truly objective news source is nearly impossible; they all have an agenda.

Here's an easy way to validate this notion...imagine for just a moment how effective terrorism would be without the media(?). Terrorism would be almost completely ineffective as a global threat were it not for the media, and would be isolated to a local/regional threat at best.

Don't think for even one millisecond the media has even the remotest interest in bringing you the facts! They are interested in one thing, and one thing only...money. They will stop at nothing to get it; there is no bar too low. And the shocking reality is, terrorism sells advertising. Terrorism sells more than advertising though, it also sells political spin/debate, which in turn sells more newspapers (websites, etc.) which sell advertising.

a reply to: WeSbO

The media were the first to start talking about terrorist attacks. Followed soon after by the Egyptian Prime Minister.

They have to confirm a crash to put the right procedures in place to cope with families turning up at the airport and closing the airspace in order to start a search. The operation to search for a downed aircraft would cost a lot of money and no one is going to release those funds without someone somewhere acknowledging that the plane was actually lost.

The likelyhood of a catastrophic failure at cruising altitude and speed is less than 10%. While they can't say for certain that it was terrorism until they have proof, you can bet your bottom $ that they are currently scanning the chatter to try and identify terror cells that have suddenly gone quiet.

It might have been a bomb, it might have been a cockpit invasion, but it's extremely unlikely that the plane's tail just happened to fall off within two minutes of the flight entering Egyptian air space.

If you have a different opinion, I'd be happy to consider it.

a reply to: Davg80

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: jappee

im guessing bud, and if it was just they engine im pretty sure they can fly with one engine, but if it blew the engine and the wing i thought that thats the way it would have fell.

Yes. My understanding is aircraft can maintain flight with a single engine, although not easily. I'm half guessing as well, not nitpicking but a missing right wing should make it still fly to the right(ish) or not at all.

originally posted by: alienDNA
Plane has been found now if one is to believe the many news reports coming in from the world.
Egyptian military is now searching for the wreckage, i believe they found only evidence of it (personal affects etc) and not the actual plane.
But they most likely will find it very soon. Black box recordings will be very interesting.

Earlier in this thread after I woke(7am HK time) and on Drudgereport( which strangely at this moment has 0 links for updates to this event(?))there were reports of the earlier reported(yesterday's findings) supposed wreckage found was not from the plane. So again I am confused...DID they FIND wreckage?.. please link source


ETA..View page 17 of this thread for reports that the wreckage found is not from this aircraft..



Is this Schrödinger's plane???

There's an interesting socio-political dynamic which has taken place over the past day and a half...

At first the world media "collective" jumped to the "terrorist act" theme, seemingly to sell advertising based on the shock factor. When the world nearly instantly reacted with the "no surprise there!" reaction and immediately turned to the negative economic impact on tourism in the region (which by no coincidence also just happens to be a MAMMOTH source of advertising revenue for the media), what did the media do????? They started 'walking back' the terrorism theme to the point where it is almost non-existent in the news this morning other than just being 'one possibility out of many'.

Funny huh? (in a twisted, greedy, sort of way).

Pardon my ignorance but has the eye witness reports of a "fire ball" in the sky been debunked or is there another explanation that has been put forward?.. Also was the video posted quite early on showing said fireball genuine?..

They are key observations in a situation like this as it would mean some combustion has taken place.

It is all to reminiscent of MH370 and what was seen from the ground/sea


RA

a reply to: slider1982

My understanding, without reviewing the thread to find the post and quote.. is that the fireball video is not from this event. It is a fireball from something that happened in Russia previously.

ETA I'm not saying there were no witnesses to a fireball in the sky. Just that the video posted of a fireball earlier is not from this event..credit to whomever researched that one.

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: WeSbO

 

if the pilots had their throats slashed by a pair of Jihadi hijackers...
I imagine the sharp turns would be the result of slumping, dead bodies no longer operating the controls

now, some 2 days later the thoughts are leaking into the news sources,,,, from infowars,com

that Salafists from DeGaulle airport might be a connection...

Egypt Air Crash: 'Religion of Peace' Strikes Again?


“The French newspaper Le Figaro quotes a French border police source as saying that investigators will be focusing their attention on ground crew at Charles de Gaulles airport, to establish whether any airport employees posed a security risk,” reports BBC News. “The source said that, in the past, a number of Salafists – ultraconservative Muslims – had been detected among those with access to the areas used for the loading and unloading of aircraft.”

I know in one reply post I made previously I noted that Salafists might be involved specifically/// but that post still lies somewhere unnoticed


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a reply to: jappee

www.aftonbladet.se...

not a "source" per say, but its often very accurate. (they get their source from Reuters, so its official)
Its in swedish though. Translation says "parts of wreckage has been found, including personal affects"


here is the full source
www.reuters.com...

About mid-day yesterday there was an article about a US (unnamed of course) "intelligence official" who stated there were some "infrared" and other (spectral) images which indicated a fireball in the area at the time of the disappearance. I can't find those stories now, and I guess that's the point...what happened to them? Or was this an intelligence slip with some classified info?

ETA...I originally saw the story via a link off of Drudge.

a reply to: alienDNA
Thank you alienDNA, it seems to confirm wreckage. Google translate did justice for this page, surprisingly. Athough it seems to be around the same time as the earlier reports saying the found "wreckage" was not from the doomed flight. It does seem strange that there is no English based reports of this, besides seeming to be suppressed from mainstream. I will await with bated breath for more confirmation..

Thank you (belated) for the Reuters link. I wish knew when that reuters webpage's time stamp in relation to UTC. For me it confuses things.

a reply to: redshoes

My opinion is violent de-compression followed by loss of normal control systems. Just my opinion.

a reply to: GreenGunther

Interesting, and what would you speculate might have caused the violent decompression?

I don't think decompression alone would have been sufficient to effect the control of the aircraft in such a drastic manner.

But then again, maybe it exploded accidentally.

a reply to: jappee

My take from aggregating all the news stories I can find this morning is essentially this...

They HAVE found some floating debris which is likely from MS804, but have NOT had officials (airline or government) officially confirm it as such at the present time. Further, while they have found some debris, they have NOT found the actual main "wreckage" and/or the actual crash site. Hence all the conflicting stories.

Additionally, given the languages/cultures involved, a lot can be lost or misinterpreted in translation.

Just my .02

Following on from my earlier post on page 21, reports are coming in that a body part, and some luggage and parts of the plane have been found 180km north of Alexandria.

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

US officials are still stating that they did not detect any kind of heat signature to suggest an explosion occurred on the plane, but drop in altitude, and the two manoeuvres as it went down certainly suggest depressurisation to the plane.

Two scenarios now emerge to suggest a cause for depressurisation...a) a small explosive device strong enough to shatter a window or blow a small hole in the fuselage, but hide any heat bloom from satellite detection; or b) somehow, one of the passengers was able to open the door, although I am not sure if the door can be opened whilst the plane is in flight?

Body part, seats and items of luggage found - Greek defence minister

Posted at
13:25




A body part, seats and one or more items of luggage have been found by crews searching for the wreckage of EgyptAir Flight MS804, Greece's defence minister has confirmed.

"A few hours earlier we were informed (by Egyptian authorities) that a body part, two seats and one or more items of luggage where found in the search area," Panos Kammenos told a news conference.

Mr Kammenos said the items were found in the search area slightly to the south of where the aircraft had vanished from radar, and slightly north of some earlier, unconfirmed debris sightings.

He said the aircraft had not deviated from its planned flight path through Greek airspace.

BBC live

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
Thank you, FCD(truncated for giggles)
a valued .02. Seems to make sense with all that is. So.. some debris found, but no official confirmation whether it is from the downed aircraft. I would think that the earlier reports of bodies found to be a sure sign of the crash site, but...meh.. I guess officials need more to give a statement. Or??? (I can see my tin foil hat from here)

ETA.. I take too long to reply, nice to have recent progress with the reports.

people are very quick to blame an entire creed, or race, without looking at their own. we should just class terrorist of all groups and evil people under the same name, cockroaches is a good one, or scum, because the vast majority of Muslims, Jews, and Christians see these people the same way, the vast majority of this planet are good people but everyone of us has a little devil in us, the difference is we control the devil, where as a minority of us let the devil control us. lets not join the minority and make it the majority.
these types of people are nothing but a skidmark on the human race, and certainly dont deserve our fear, lets just wipe them out, with no guilt! cause karma only works through guilt, you bring your own danger to the door. How do you think TPTB get away with it.
Regards.

a reply to: redshoes

Decompression and/or loss of one (or even both) engines does not cause a radically altered flight path. Sudden decompression might result in a rapid descent, but that's about it.

Extreme control inputs or loss/disruption of flight control surfaces on the other hand does cause a radically altered flight path.

Alaska 261 is an example of this...

AS 261