Friendly reminder: The U.S. is a REPRESENTATIVE Democracy, NOT a direct democracy

originally posted by: GodEmperor

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Aazadan

Oh god. Everyone can vote in this country.

Felons cannot vote, illegal aliens cannot vote, and minors cannot vote. Many states require registration before being allowed in the voting process.

And within the past century, women couldn't vote and Blacks couldn't vote and Native Americans couldn't vote, either.

The US was not founded as a democracy.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Aazadan

What are you talking about?

Most US citizens (with the exception of many felons) are now permitted to vote. The government allows them to vote.

There was a time in the US when women, blacks and other minority groups (essentially non-white males) were not allowed to vote. It wasn't a right: the laws at the time prevented them from voting, or made it very hard for them to do so (see literacy tests).

Rights cannot be taken away. Permission (hence voting) can.

a reply to: Liquesence

Wrong all right can and are taken away and that is no longer the case.

This is completely besides the point it's grasping at straws when your argument doesn't hold up.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: GodEmperor

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Aazadan

Oh god. Everyone can vote in this country.

Felons cannot vote, illegal aliens cannot vote, and minors cannot vote. Many states require registration before being allowed in the voting process.

And within the past century, women couldn't vote and Blacks couldn't vote and Native Americans couldn't vote, either.

The US was not founded as a democracy.

Technically, blacks were granted voting privileges with the passage of the 15th Amendment in 1870 even though there were literacy tests and intimidation preventing them. Hell, they were permitted (or had the "right") even before women, who gained that permission in 1920 with the 19th amendment.

Screwed up country we live in. Still is.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I can still vote FYI.

Ive lost other "rights".

Honestly i think you guys need to go reread your last few posts and realize how ridiculous it sounds.

Rereading that, it sounded really rude. I didn't intend to take a dig, if it came across that way.

a reply to: Liquesence

26th amendment

The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

They just want to grasp at straws because their argument doesnt hold up.

a reply to: Liquesence

Blacks (and women) were not specifically granted voting rights. Read the amendments. What they say is that voting cannot be denied for being black or a woman, it doesn't actually state those groups have the right to vote.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Liquesence

Wrong all right can and are taken away and that is no longer the case.

This is completely besides the point it's grasping at straws when your argument doesn't hold up.

My argument? I have no argument here, and I'm not grasping at straws, I'm just pointing out facts in regards to voting and the history thereof.

Don't get so defensive.

a reply to: onequestion

Read the text of that amendment. "Shall not be denied or abridged on account of age". It's not affirming anything, it's stating a reason it cannot be taken away.

You may be over 18, but you can still be denied the privilege to vote for any arbitrary reason other than a few specifically amended into the Constitution. For example, you could be denied a vote because you use an online handle with the letter q in it. That is 100% legal to do.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Liquesence

26th amendment

The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

They just want to grasp at straws because their argument doesnt hold up.

passed in 1975. Long after the US was established as a Constitutional Republic

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thats fine i get it its the internet.

I find it hilarious that evidence i used to show that we are in fact a democracy is exactly the same evidence used to prove that we are a republic.

Then the evidence to show that we are a republic uses the same language thats used again to prove we are a democracy and no one really provides an effective description of what the difference is until someone brings up that the only real difference is the right to vote.

Its really hard for me to keep responding until some common sense is employed.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Regardless of when it was passed WE ARE CURRENTLY.

CURRENTLY.

NOW

IN THE PRESENT TIME.

a reply to: Aazadan

Look your argument is completely pointless and invalid everyone can vote unless your a felon in a handful of states and thats changing.

The language in the amendments even states that its a right so whats your point dude?

Do you have a point or are you just playing games because your original argument wouldnt hold up?

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Liquesence

Blacks (and women) were not specifically granted voting rights. Read the amendments. What they say is that voting cannot be denied for being black or a woman, it doesn't actually state those groups have the right to vote.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Correct, the 15th says that their right to vote cannot be denied. They had been denied previously on the basis of their skin color (insofar as blacks, etc). And the 19th said the right cannot be denied based on sex.

It was not a right before the passages of those amendments.

a reply to: Liquesence

The language of the amendment itself states that it's a right.

Am I the only one who is actually reading it?

a reply to: onequestion

Democracy = popular vote determines our head of state...

Is that how we actually do things??

No

We are a republic.

The United States of America (USA), commonly referred to as the United States (U.S.) or America, is a federal republic composed of 50 states, the federal district of Washington, D.C., five major territories, and various possessions

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Note the line Government...

Federal presidential constitutional republic

Maybe it's you that needs to research what these terms actually mean

originally posted by: onequestion
Look your argument is completely pointless and invalid everyone can vote unless your a felon in a handful of states and thats changing.

The language in the amendments even states that its a right so whats your point dude?

Do you have a point or are you just playing games because your original argument wouldnt hold up?

A right which was never legally granted. It's not just me saying this, it's not some conspiracy or delusional fantasy. You are allowed to vote, but you do not have a right to vote.

The "right to vote" is not explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution except in the above referenced amendments, and only in reference to the fact that the franchise cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. In other words, the "right to vote" is perhaps better understood, in layman's terms, as only prohibiting certain forms of legal discrimination in establishing qualifications for suffrage. States may deny the "right to vote" for other reasons. For example, many states require eligible citizens to register to vote a set number of days prior to the election in order to vote. More controversial restrictions include those laws that prohibit convicted felons from voting, even those who have served their sentences. Another example, seen in Bush v. Gore, are disputes as to what rules should apply in counting or recounting ballots.

Here's a few links on the subject
www.politifact.com...
democracyjournal.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.msnbc.com...
www.salon.com...

Here's a petition to actually put a right to vote amendment into the Constitution
www.fairvote.org...

In my first link the congressman interviewed also tried to put one forward. No one is interested in supporting it.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Liquesence

The language of the amendment itself states that it's a right.

Am I the only one who is actually reading it?

It says the right to vote cannot be denied, but you were never given a right to vote so there's nothing to deny in the first place. It's not affirming anything, it's only saying that if such a right were to exist, this is a reason it can't be denied.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thats fine i get it its the internet.

I find it hilarious that evidence i used to show that we are in fact a democracy is exactly the same evidence used to prove that we are a republic.

Then the evidence to show that we are a republic uses the same language thats used again to prove we are a democracy and no one really provides an effective description of what the difference is until someone brings up that the only real difference is the right to vote.

Its really hard for me to keep responding until some common sense is employed.

What don't you understand about the difference between a republic (representative democracy) and a true democracy?

If this was a true democracy, the people of this country would have a voice (voting) in ALL laws that are passed by the federal, state, and local governments. Occasionally we get to vote on laws (when they are on the ballot), but for the most part we elect representatives to vote for laws according to the constituents who elected them, who also happen to be the majority in any given area. Representatives can vote anyway they like, but if they go against the majority their time in office is essentially limited.

a reply to: Liquesence

Show me specifically where any theory about democracy it states exactly what you've stated from a source other than you.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Liquesence

The language of the amendment itself states that it's a right.

Am I the only one who is actually reading it?

No, I get it, and I even mentioned in previous posts. The language therein calls it a "right," but rights can be taken away.

We do have a "right" to vote, but that "right" can also be taken away, which is why it's essentially a permission.

It's not a black and white issue, and it's largely semantics (as legalese is wont to be), but hopefully you can wrap your head around it.