I'm against socialism, apparently I'm an idiot. Ask me nothing.

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
a reply to: cody599

I have no issue with those who want to do it. Giving is always a good thing. Being forced to give until it hurts you and yours is a bit different IMO. Especially if it is giving to those who only take (and no I am NOT including folks who can not work due to a legitimate disability).

Hi Kanga, long time no see

I'm not saying it's the perfect system, far from it, but I will say this.

Living on a kibbutz working for the common good, working for the betterment of the next generation has given my kids opportunities that I as an individual could never have afforded them.

I was the product of a poor family and had work hard in school to earn a scholarship, being the poor kid in a rich school one learns from the inside about elitism and privilege. It isn't pretty.

The kibbutz is a perfect breeding ground for those that want fly and want the best for their kids, sure it invites leeches but the vetting system is stringent, not elitist but stringent. Yes there are those that get through and generally their lives are miserable, you don't work for the common good, don't expect the benefits (socially).

The system allowed for my kids to fly high without significant cost individually to myself, where would my kids be without that common support ? I have no idea but looking around me now (I'm back in England) at the teenage parents, drug dealers and local scum I for one am grateful that my kids got that start in life

Where are they now ? Extremely successful young adults with an ingrained support network that they continue to nurture.

Socialism isn't all bad

Cody

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I may be old, but don't equate old with not being familiar with the internet. I am surprised because I thought there would be a better level of discourse here.

And why are you associating socialists with crack users?

I never did.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'm offended....in fact truly offended,there are laws in this country against such a thing so luckily it does not happen often......

Offending people does not sit well around here so our politicians have devised laws to put a stop to people getting offended

a reply to: DBCowboy

But please, for the love of all things holy, don't ever try to silence people who disagree with you. I've seen your posts and I am not targeting you, apologies if you think that.

Diversity is the wonder of ATS

Different opinions are what fuel healthy debate, and sadly occasionally manic arguments, my views are very much that, my views.

Never to my recollection have I actively tried to silence a member, disagreed with, yes, silenced ? Never.

Here we are two members with opposing ideologies and getting along fine, and long may it continue, I now live in a capitalist country, and I see less opportunity for the local kids than mine were privileged to, my heart bleeds for them.

Sure this is a poor area and I'll be happy to move into my new property as quickly as the solicitors can get the paperwork done, but that's kind of the point.

If the people that live around me united they'd be a force, but instead they turn to drink and drugs and blaming the system for their own failures.

It's maddening, these kids have potential that will never be realised, because their parents are self pitying scum, still the world needs drones right ?

Cody

a reply to: cody599

Life is rarely fair and has shown itself to never be equal.

We are just smart monkeys getting along with life.

No matter how much wealth we obtain, no matter how much power we have, we all die alone.

a reply to: DBCowboy

It's not for me I worked so hard, although I'm now at that stage in my life that I can start to reap the benefits, I just wanted to give my kids the best possible start in life.

The kibbutz was the perfect option.

All I want is to leave a legacy worthy of the man I am, a car is a car, a house is a house.

A person is an individual with infinite choices and possibilities, I just wish more people would realise that.

Great thread by the way thanks for posting it

Cody

a reply to: cody599

I've been around. You can see why sometimes I am more scarce right here.

But I digress.

THANK YOU for taking the time to post that. I understand why some countries and people favor socialism and I suppose had I grown up always having it, my feelings about it would likely be very different.

I would benefit from full blown socialism probably more than I would be harmed by it. We had no money growing up and still don't really. But we work for what we do have and if one day we manage to get to a better place, I don't like the idea of having to forfeit that hard work by passing on the benefits to those who never even tried. I imagine those who are already wealthy feel the same way and I feel like I would be a hypocrite by being for it only when it benefited me knowing that I would likely feel different if the shoe were on the other foot. If that makes sense?

Again, I know that it's harder for you to understand growing up with it just as it's hard for us to understand not ever having it.

a reply to: DBCowboy

NVM

I may not agree with most of what you say but it would never even occur to me to PM you & tell you to stop posting. Wow. Humanity is crumbling.

Well soon you will have trump and America will be great again. No more socialism, although if you want to compete with "shiner" some serious wage restructuring will be needed, maybe some suicide nets around factories and sweat shops, as a nod to workers health and safety.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Again, I know that it's harder for you to understand growing up with it just as it's hard for us to understand not ever having it.

This my point Kanga

I didn't grow up with it, I was an RAF brat, born into the world of British air force life, I worked hard at school to gain my scholarship, studied hard and worked for my benefit, and mine alone.

I only made the life changing decision to live my ideology at the age of 23, and I lived in the kibbutz system in it's heyday, all very rose tinted glasses and hippy LOL.

Now at age 49, with my kids grown up and safe as one could hope for I'm back on the capitalist wagon, out for the wife and myself. We've worked hard for the last 11 years to afford our own property, for us, and us alone, and God help the person that tries to take that.

Hypocritical ? Yes, but in England it's every man for himself, socialism would never work here, and only a fool would think that it could, too many scroungers.

All I'm saying is that at a time in my life when I was young and idealistic I actively followed my dream, and for me and my kids it worked out well.

I consider myself lucky to have had the balls to risk everything, and have it work out, things could have gone in a very different direction.

Encourage the kids to live the dream, they always have a home with us if it fails, and a life experience to draw upon.

Cody

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Must make economic sense to catch them on the first bounce and put them back to work.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'm against stupidity, but no matter how much I protest against it, people still insist on it. Replace stupidity with socialism and it has the same meaning.

As for getting PM'd? Just tell them to (against ATS T&C).

a reply to: DBCowboy

I do see a big difference comparing socialism as looking after people when they need it + protecting workers and their fair rights to scroungism which unfortunately a large groups of people have turned into a profession.

a reply to: DBCowboy

So what is socialism vs capitalism? A public library is socialism. Tax money is taken and spend on something for everyone. A capitalistic library would be one where you either paid to enter or rented books or both. Where do we draw the line on the labels? Schools here are paid for by property taxes. Many people that own property don't have children. What is that? We absolutely need things that are paid for my taxes. People with wealth have more money and pay more taxes.... apart from loopholes. People with very little money often don't pay some taxes but also use public things like roads and schools and libraries. Some people have no disposable income due to the high cost of rent or prescription medicines or gas and food costs and are barely surviving. Should we help them or insist on taxes which they can't pay or put them in debtors prison? A pure capitalism society has little in the way of heart or compassion. Its dog eat dog, every man for himself. In that world, there is no sharing without payback. If I create enough food to feed my family and have food leftover to sell which could feed a number of people, with some of them in dire need of food, but one rich person wants to buy it all, should I sell it all to that person or keep some back to sell to the less fortunate at a lower cost and charge more to the wealthy person or take a loss myself? Socialism is decisions about sharing created wealth. Yes, there are people that take advantage of the system, from the bottom, like people that get welfare but could work, and the top, with loopholes to avoid paying taxes, and in the middle with fraud and corruption (which is at all levels), but separating out the unethical and immoral and criminal portions of the population, there is a need for society to share in some ways. Labels are far too easy to toss about when we all live in a mixed society of capitalism and socialism already. Getting rid of the fraud, waste, corruption, and criminality is more important to society than separating the haves and have nots as though the have nots were doing it on purpose and trying to rip off the haves.

a reply to: DBCowboy

If people have been private messaging you to try and get you to stop posting on certain topics that is something that should be reported and dealt with.
I appreciate you are probably more than capable of telling anyone doing it to you to (insert major t&c violation of choice here), however some members particularly newer ones may not be or may think they are being told 'officially' not to post.
I disagree with a lot of posts here (yourself included) but the idea that people should take it upon themselves to try and silence view points by PM is ridiculous.
If a post breeches t&cs report it otherwise debate it seems a simple enough rule for me.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Yeah - but what about their "feelings"? - some folks have meltdowns upon hearing opinions they disagree with, have you taken into consideration that your opinion hurts their feelings?

Have no fear, I have an idea - maybe ATS can start a "Safe Spaces" forum for those who do not wish to participate in a thread where differing opinions exist.

you crack me up.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Maybe it's not that they disagree with you or want you to accept Socialism per se. Maybe they don't agree with your over dramatic concept of Socialism and the way you misrepresent it by only accepting what it is based on your terms alone.

When you use such hyperbolic examples and make wild claims while refusing to accept any other opinions it makes conversation very difficult if not impossible.

The fact is you've already accepted various Socialist Programs within society whether you realize it or not. Some form of Socialism will always be in play within society. So in a way you're simply refusing to accept reality for what it is which again makes discussing it difficult to do.

I wouldn't private message you about it or try and silence you over it though. It seems easier to just not talk to you IMO. Maybe those people who go that extra step are just taking you too seriously and themselves too seriously also.

a reply to: DBCowboy


Hah! Did they need some muscle before they U2U'd ya?




Pretty pathetic for people to try and shut down the opinions of others who don't think the way they do. Welcome to a Brave New World!