My mind has been blown. Read this post to find out why.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Ruiner1978

First of all where is the "demand" I've made for physical evidence? I said I'd like to see some, because physical evidence provides corroboration for subjective/eyewitness evidence. Make sense?

You're just using your rehashed arguments that you (probably) always do in such discussions. I haven't "demanded" a thing.

And beyond that who is "you people"? Anyone who doesn't accede to your pet theory about what's going on?

I can't "wrap my head" around the idea that everything presented in every discussion about "the Mandela Effect" has a reasonable logical explanation that doesn't involve anything other than good old humanity, human foibles, human error.

I'm not sure why that non-fantastic fact is so hard to swallow.

Whether you demanded it or said you'd like to see some, my point still stands.
By "you people" I mean those who keep bringing it back to how someone spells the name of fictitious bears, ignoring the bigger examples that are not as easily and safely explained away.
Those who say "nothing's changed" when clearly a lot has for a lot of people.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

No in fact, your point doesn't stand at all. Asking for evidence and demanding it are two completely different things.

I don't think I've brought up the Bears except in direct conversation about that point. I don't see anyone else harping on "the Bears" either.

What I do see are several members who seem to react extraordinarily to any explanation of these issues that is not fantastic in some way. I'm not sure why that is, but when the mere suggestion that experiences like these are simple and shared by all humans seems to take something away from those who feel that this makes them "special" in some way.

I can't see any other reason for the extreme reactions we're seeing here to a known and accepted fact like "human memory is fallible" and "humans perpetuate mistakes and reinforce each other's beliefs."

What is it about feeling that the universe has "changed" for you that is so important? Are you hoping to get "back" to where you came from?

I cannot judge whether or not another shifted here into the same reality as myself from a parallel universe or alternate reality - the one I was in as a child had Berenstain Bears.
I remember it clearly because I got in a disagreement with kids at recess, in 3rd grade, in which they claimed it was Berenstein. We went into the classroom and took out one of the books and I won the argument. It said Berenstain.

But I can't be sure they didn't transfer in that morning or the evening before, so...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Ruiner1978

No in fact, your point doesn't stand at all. Asking for evidence and demanding it are two completely different things.

I don't think I've brought up the Bears except in direct conversation about that point. I don't see anyone else harping on "the Bears" either.

What I do see are several members who seem to react extraordinarily to any explanation of these issues that is not fantastic in some way. I'm not sure why that is, but when the mere suggestion that experiences like these are simple and shared by all humans seems to take something away from those who feel that this makes them "special" in some way.

I can't see any other reason for the extreme reactions we're seeing here to a known and accepted fact like "human memory is fallible" and "humans perpetuate mistakes and reinforce each other's beliefs."

What is it about feeling that the universe has "changed" for you that is so important? Are you hoping to get "back" to where you came from?

Oh good grief...
Look mate, you know exactly what I'm getting at with the asking for evidence thing. You get my point, let's not try to confuse it with getting into the differences of this and that shall we.
Yes! People forget things, remember things wrong. I don't care about the Bear's name. I'm pretty sure it was A vampire but yeah probably a mistake on my part. I sometimes forget to put my lighter in my pocket and don't automatically assume it's a reality shift or whatnot...
But I KNOW Australia shouldn't be that close to another landmass. Not just Australia, other countries look out of whack too. The oceans are too small.
And it's not just me who thinks that. People I know have freaked out about this. And if you really are as interested in this subject as you are now making out you are you would have seen a post by me about this in the other thread.
But I see what you're doing. Jumping in trying to ridicule people, then pretending to want a "rational discussion" when called out on it. Even now, what are you saying about these people on that thread? Saying that they're birthing a new religion. Still mocking them. You're a trouble maker, mate. A bully, clearly.

And now you're asking me What is it about feeling that the universe has "changed" for you that is so important?
See, it's this kind of twisting things that irritates people. You like to make out that people get funny simply cos they what to believe something more than just faulty memory.
I see what you're doing.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

No "mate" I don't know what you're getting at ... there is a difference between a demand and a request.

Please drop the personal comments and let's focus on the topic shall we? I haven't ridiculed anyone.

When did you start to notice that maps didn't look right to you?

What do you mean that you see what "I'm doing"? I'm trying to get you to relay your PERSONAL experiences rather than what you've read on a webpage somewhere.

It's IMPORTANT because in order to document any possible OBJECTIVE changes, we'd have to work through the SUBJECTIVE ideas about it and winnow out the chaff.

I am not the topic. What you think of me is not the topic. I would really like to discuss the topic, however, so if you have any interest in that, please, let's interact on as factual a basis as possible.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Ruiner1978

No "mate" I don't know what you're getting at ... there is a difference between a demand and a request.

Please drop the personal comments and let's focus on the topic shall we? I haven't ridiculed anyone.

When did you start to notice that maps didn't look right to you?

What do you mean that you see what "I'm doing"? I'm trying to get you to relay your PERSONAL experiences rather than what you've read on a webpage somewhere.

It's IMPORTANT because in order to document any possible OBJECTIVE changes, we'd have to work through the SUBJECTIVE ideas about it and winnow out the chaff.

I am not the topic. What you think of me is not the topic. I would really like to discuss the topic, however, so if you have any interest in that, please, let's interact on as factual a basis as possible.

I apologise, no need for me to get that personal.

What I find frustrating is when people keep asking for physical proof or evidence. Now IF things have changed and some people are remembering how things were, it should be obvious to everyone that there wouldn't be any physical evidence, only what some remember. It's like you're knowingly asking for the impossible thus unfairly "invalidating" what someone remembers.
What really gets me is some people use the physical evidence (an older map) as proof against, always in a mocking manner. Do you see how frustrating that could be?
Now I fully understand that the most reasonable explanation is faulty memory. But I KNOW Australia should be more isolated, and I'm not alone on that. I don't agree with the map projection distortion explanation either because every map, globe or what ever just looks wrong. I thought maybe continents had shifted over the years or something, but older maps look wrong too. So yeah nothing seems to have actually changed, just my memory of it doesn't match up, but I know I'm not remembering it wrong.
I don't necessarily believe in a reality shift or something like that. I just know something ain't right.
Make sense?

a reply to: Ruiner1978

But you and others are TALKING ABOUT physical evidence ... you are claiming that things are different IN THE REAL WORLD than they were.

This is a physical change, right? Different spellings of names. Different words in songs. Different titles of books. These are real things.

These are physical REAL WORLD items, they are not imaginary, they are not figments of imagination, they are not open to "whatever subjective interpretation" one cares to pile on.

Of course I can see that if someone is mocking you personally, that could be frustrating. Trust me.

I'm not and haven't mocked anyone. I'm saying the same thing I've been saying, and that get's attacked as being "a skeptic" or "a shill" or "a troll" ... but I've given these phenomena a good bit of thought, done as much research as anyone on the topic, and the conclusion that I have come to is that the issue is a) human memory b) human perception and c) the propagation of errors via the internet.

I can't, of course, explain the subjective fact that maps don't look right to you. I can only guess that modern maps are taking advantage of ever more precise satellite and GPS technology as well as better rendering methods.

As far as your sense of something being "wrong" ... I really can't say anything about that, of course. I can only share that I have come through a long path of discovering and understanding (and not understanding) reality myself. The best anchor I have found is rational scientific thought. However, I would be the first to say that if that just doesn't work out for you, pick the anchor that does work and let's you parse out and make sense of the chaos that surrounds us ...

No hard feelings eh?

What evidence can we look at:

The Berenstain Bears is a series of children's books created by Stan and Jan Berenstain and continued by their son, Mike Berenstain, who assumed partial authorship in 2002, and full authorship in 2012 following Jan's death.

I guess their names changed too?

Now in the theme song it phonetically sounds like it would be Berenstein,and when we isolate the "stain" our mind tells us "ay" instead of "e" that's why it seems so much more foreign. And I wouldn't doubt it if there are books out there that spell it Barenstein due to publishing errors. Happens all the time. Saying you know what you know means nothing. Memory is more fragile than you think. I could have sworn one of my friends telling me an in depth story about his special lineage, I brought it up about a year later and he told me he never said anything about it. There is skepticism and then there is delusion, so let it go.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: Lysergic

I share the "stein" memories as well.

People have memories different than you. So what? Leave them be. I can't imagine why it effects you so much.

Your points are valid to you and others who share in it. I respect that.

If it's not to be scrutinized then why post it on a discussion forum?

Watch Dark City and all your questions will be answered.

a reply to: droid56

Jimstone will tell you that all Jewish people have large libraries because hard copy books cannot be changed.

He also says that some computer chips are made in Isreal or by Israeli owned companies, forget exactly, but to whatever extend this information is accurate, it would seem they that Jews don't rely 100% on electronic words and if this is the case then they must know why.

In the last year or so the Australian govt gave its security apparatus permission to burgle the computers of terro suspects, which effectively means everyone's computer, so presumably the technology to enter on line text and alter it, is around and as always with computers, if something can be done it is done.

if the Australians have done this then presumably other govts around the world have done it long ago.

Exactly why they are doing it in areas that are not critical? Perhaps its an attempt to play with the minds of the masses ..... as this knowledge of what is happening spreads dunno if they are doing it they certainly have an agenda.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Ruiner1978

But you and others are TALKING ABOUT physical evidence ... you are claiming that things are different IN THE REAL WORLD than they were.

This is a physical change, right? Different spellings of names. Different words in songs. Different titles of books. These are real things.

These are physical REAL WORLD items, they are not imaginary, they are not figments of imagination, they are not open to "whatever subjective interpretation" one cares to pile on.

It's clear that you really don't understand the point I'm making. I don't think I can put it in simpler terms than I already have. It's been explained many times by other people better than I have. Not meaning to sound condescending, I genuinely don't know how else to put it. Fault on my part maybe.

I can't, of course, explain the subjective fact that maps don't look right to you. I can only guess that modern maps are taking advantage of ever more precise satellite and GPS technology as well as better rendering methods.

Oh yes. This is what I initially thought. But again older maps and globes still look out of whack.

No hard feelings eh?

Of course not.
Again sorry for getting personal earlier.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

"Nothing unreal exists."

Kiri-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics

a reply to: Lysergic

Scrutinize is not what you were doing.

Now, back to on topic...

a reply to: NewzNose

I was joining in on a discussion.

]dis·cus·sion
dəˈskəSH(ə)n/
noun
the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
"the proposals are not a blueprint but ideas for discussion"

Don't worry I'll keep on keeping on.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: Lysergic

Scrutinize is not what you were doing.

Neither were you…

I glanced at the last few comments, and they were as I suspected. I am not interested in the show me proof comments. Normally asking for physical proof makes sense, but sometimes it's not possible in the realm of high strangeness.

The anomalies present in this phenomenon are mind blowing particularly if you are 100% certain about something that you strongly remember. I don't expect my confidence in my memory to mean much to anybody else other than somebody close to me who has seen over many years that I deserve to be trusted.

But let me say this one more time. The Berenstein Bears were named that for many years. Even though a red wiggly line just appeared under it, it WAS how their name was spelled for the 30 years I taught young kids.

This phenomenon will never result in any meaningful conclusion. There is no way this mystery will be solved. Parallel worlds? Merging timelines? Who knows. But something very unusual happened in my opinion. This is my last post on this subject.