Traumatizing Babies = Manufactured MPD?

Multiple Personality Disorder has been dramatized in the movies as something that just happens. You know, sombody just goes insane and they display multiple personalities.

There is a guy out there, Fritz Springmeyer, who co-wrote a book about mind-control slaves and how they are created. It can be downloaded from www.heart7.net.... This site also has an excellent collection of other material on the subject.

Supposedly the idea is that if you subject a little child to enough pain and horror, its personality will 'split' as a defense-mechanism. That 'new' personality can be 'programmed' and then hidden in the back of the person's mind. These 'alter' personalities can supposdly be called up later to perform certain tasks.

I am curious to know if people think this is possible? Is infant trauma a known mechanism for 'breaking' people's minds? Is traumatizing infants and toddlers new or has it been around as a secret and horrible truth for centuries? For example, were the Egyptians aware of this?

I realize that discussing such things can get you killed, but if we don't ask questions for these helpless kids, who will? (btw, Fritz Springmeyer is currently in jail on drug charges, but I don't think that discounts his work and research, particularly considering who controls the drug trade.)

I'm not necessarily anti-NWO or whatever, but I am certainly anti-baby-torture. How about you?

Interview with Firtz Springmeyer mindcontrolforums.com...
Interview with Cisco Wheeler mindcontrolforums.com...

Unfortunately, I have to agree...

The human mind is an extraordinary thing but also VERY fragile...

I am curious to know if people think this is possible? Is infant trauma a known mechanism for 'breaking' people's minds? Is traumatizing infants and toddlers new or has it been around as a secret and horrible truth for centuries? For example, were the Egyptians aware of this?

I realize that discussing such things can get you killed, but if we don't ask questions for these helpless kids, who will? (btw, Fritz Springmeyer is currently in jail on drug charges, but I don't think that discounts his work and research, particularly considering who controls the drug trade.)

hey peeps - I sincerely hope just discussing such things won't get us killed but....

I've been trying to get to the bottom of this MKULTRA/Monarch/Springmeier business myself, and boy, it is quite puzzling. My pop is a psychologist who did his phD work on hypnosis and weight control, and when I talked to him about it he said "hmmm....possible, I guess" which is all I ever really get from anybody.

Now, I believe we have seen proof that the CIA MKULTRA program did indeed exist to some extent. As far as the Monarch program, I don't think I've seen any actual documents or court cases, and as far as its relationship with SRA, I haven't seen any "hard" proof, but it seems plausible, especially if you found The Wizard of Oz as creepy as I did as a kid.

All I can think about Fritz, is that we are not getting the real story, but I can't figure out what the real story is. My postulations are that the truth is either he's REALLY right on, or else he's a shill and some sort of professional dis-info agent spreading truth in plain sight, so that it can be dismissed when he's proven in a court of law to be a weed growing, gun hoarding, domestically terrorizing, womanizing, bank robbing jesus freak - which is how he looks right now to most people.

So those are my thoughts - either he's been framed for spreading truth and is unjustly sitting in a jail cell right now, or he's spreading truth/disinfo stew, and sipping a mai-tai on a south american beach chair next to mohammed atta - but which is it?

BB: Well said. This line of investigation isn't for the weak-hearted, but it is compelling, nonetheless. What was all that about curiosity killing the cat? Hmmm...

I tend to believe that this subject has been cloaked very deeply under the WASP-y westernized value system of human sexuality. Put another way, the current system of thought control has maintained the subject of children and sex as being so highly taboo that it never gets discussed. I think this tends to create a situation where pederasty and child-sex become tools of warfare. The rationale is, if we're out to kill Castro, and he likes little boys, doesn't warfare require us to go to the deepest lengths? The implications are equally chilling.

As for Fritz, I don't know the guy, and I am not looking to crusade for him. I've met hard-core Constitutionalist-Christians with big beards before and I don't necessarily like them either. In a way, I am in favor of the removal of organized religion. I just think that doing it by force will be very hard to pull off without the whole ship of Humanity going down. I favor the soft approach.

Once again I agree. The more organized, seperatist, indoctrinating, and dogmatic the teaching, the less spritual and more mind controlling I find it to be.

I also have to ask myself why I'm so suspicious of social activists with big long beards. When I see a religious figure with a flowing beard, it seems to only inspire confidence...oh well, chalk up another victory for TV stereotypes. Note to social revolutionaries - shave.

I also think that the controlling forces do use taboo as an incentive program for the sociopathic, and as a control paradigm for the initiated. I think that is why many nefarious secret societies, gangs and such requre an act of initiation of dubios morality and legality, and why taboo ritualistic behaviour seems to be part and parcel for these shadowy groups. Subjects that are "too touchy" for social discussion should immediately be unearthed and loudly debated under the bright light of day, IMO, cause it throws red flags to me that something's going on behind the woodpile.

Well, now that we've got our b*lls officially flappin in the breeze, lets see if anybody else comes up with some quality info on ol Fritzy.

many nefarious secret societies, gangs and such requre an act of initiation of dubios morality and legality

You have hit the subject on its head entirely. It is the illicit nature of the act (cannabilism, rape, etc) that 'binds' the person to the group.

Subjects that are "too touchy" for social discussion should immediately be unearthed and loudly debated under the bright light of day, IMO, cause it throws red flags to me that something's going on behind the woodpile.

Indeed. This also seems to be an American thing. I do not think it could be pulled off in all countries as some of them do not allow these subjects to be taboo.

One thing is certain: That infant who is traumatized would become a human adult. That human, if born into a TRIBE of humans as have lived on Earth for thousands of years, would have a place found for it. It would not be seen as a piece of flesh to be crushed and molded. If in times of food scarcity, a child was one mouth too many and had to be terminated, this happened only AFTER the child was born and it was handled discreetly and with love by the midwife/matriarch. Such is the nature of humans: We care for our babies. Anyone who has been seduced into believing otherwise is wrong.

Assuming mind control is true as described, then the gulf between 'awake' humans and 'asleep' humans in America is massive and probably permanant until the day it doesn't matter anymore. Also, what we are talking about is a whole lot of CASH, and whenever you have a hidden gold mine, you string traps up to keep people OUT. You might even string up one BIG trap so that the mine collapses if anyone gets too deep inside --better to wreck it than let the subject see the light of day. If this subject floated to the surface at all, I am fairly certain there would be a very brutal and shocking distraction provided to throw off the scent.

I certainly believe that childhood trauma can create 'splits', for self-defense. An adult can will themselves to 'be elsewhere' in their mind while undergoing trauma. I would think a child's mind will just do this instinctually, to protect them.

A pretty disturbing memoir I read, When Rabbit Howls, is by a lady with around 80 personalities. Her memoir deals with early sexual abuse, and covers her discovery of her personalities while seeking treatment for blackouts. This book is not for the squeamish, it can be fairly upsetting, but a worthwhile read.

How sad people didn't like this thread. I know it's really horrible to comprehend, but honestly, do we really trust science to handle the highest aspects of what it means to be human?

I am certain that if an infant suffers, there is healing which awaits it, alive or in the next life. Most of our actions are conditioned as infants anyway, regardless of if our environment is one of love or one of hate.

Why do people discuss the stupidest stuff, but don't give a damn about questions which Americans may have to ask themselves in the future.

I encourage all open minded posters to post here if they know of any such proof for the claims of (crackpot?) Fritz Springmeyer. I know he looks like a nutter, on camera, but a lot of people get stagefright. I don't think he's a "terrorist", whatever that means.

I wish this subject got more attention, because if it's true. it's just incomprehensibly sad, ya know?

I was a psychotherapist for 15 years. From what I have seen of my clients (people who had extremely dangerous and distressing childhoods), I believe MPD is probably caused by serious childhood trauma. It is true that children "go elsewhere" during trauma. It is very common to hear a person who is talking about their childhood tauma to hear that they went up to the ceiling and could look down on their bodies. THis is classic disassociation, and MPD is an extreme form of it.

Please note that in my opinion, it is WAY overdiagnosed, usually by therapists who have a deep need to be heavily depended on by their clients. Many of my co-workers felt the same way.

-Forestlady

This subject is very dear to my soul.
I shall not go into details,but a child who has been horribly abused, will step out of the body while it is going on, and there are discarnate entities which will jump right in while the original victim is out of the body.
Believe me, this is a hell on earth, and pedophiles ruin a child for a whole lifetime, while most of the children are afraid of outing the offender.
May there be a special place on the 'otherside' where all of these EVIL men
get abused constantly.

The use of abuse and torture in order to induce a disassociated state, whether directed at young children or even adults, seems to occur commonly in the sordid practice of mind control, whether for the purpose of programming "alters" that can be commanded (e.g., a "Manchurian Candidate" or a "Jason Bourne"), for the purpose of coercing an individual to obey authority, or for the purpose of suppressing certain information in the memory of the subject. I believe that this area of study is indeed real and common among these cults.

reply to post by smallpeeps


I don't know if the Egyptians were aware of this (or Canaanites, or Sumerians or Babylonians)....I think probably yes, since child abuse and cruelty are surely that old.

Yes, multiplicity or Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is created, usually on purpose, and parts can definitely be programmed. I have worked with several victims.

www.xs4all.nl/~sm4csi/nwo/MindControl/spin-programming.htm



i'd say there is more to it than just brutalizing. even though the procedure would certainly look like that to us, there are probably drugs involved and various techniques which exploit the body's structure (think acupuncuture, it's just sticking needles into somebody, unless you grasp the principle)

i don't know if it can be done, what i view as a given is that more powerful secret societies need mechanisms to guarantee the silence of members and witnesses, or they would not survive. one can easily imagine that if an organisation would outright kill, won't hesitate to do worse. i think is that's the whole point of the exercise (provided the story is even partially true), to find ways to strike fear into the hearts of people who do not fear death. a lot of propaganda revolves around the same principle, take many new age style belief systems, they might sell it as just, karma and such, but you can't escape.

Good bumps on this thread.

We will see more and more conditioning regarding Multiple Personality Disorder, including that new TV show where it's all wacky and silly that she's got MPD? What's that TV show again?


Even if we consider that the "white" illuminatists are now incharge of the dialectic, they really can't do anything except try to break the truth across the minds of the sheeps and cows. People will vomit and cry and then maybe humanity can move on to the next phase?

The truth is twofold:

1: Humans are more easily screwed up and traumatized than any of us want to admit (though we secretly know this inside our-selfs).

2: This trauma fragmentation process is completely able to be healed though the conditioners want the victims to believe they are permanently "broken". --Nobody is broken so badly that nature and calmness anxd therapy, will not cause them to re-assemble themselves within.

The key is for all the "alters" or alternate personalities inside the person, to be coaxed out by the hypnotist/therapist via basic reward and "more satisfaction" ...Even the hurt parts of a fragmented human will crave "satisfaction" and these parts if they are won over within the mind, will cause ALL parts of the mind to begin the reassembly process. Like a fragmented planetoid, though it be turned into differentiated giant rocks, will if left alone, come together over time to reform itself. One could imagine a therapy modality where the fragmented person is given this analogue and then taught to gaze at the moon, for example, for a real-life example of how parts which are fragments, might come together, for science tells us this is how the moon formed.

Once you can take that broken person and tell them they can be whole again, then, the road to healing is underway. If however MPD becomes just a funny entertainment thing and nobody digs deeper, then this will only buy more time for the people currently engaged in fracturing litte humans, in basements and underground.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by smallpeeps]

How sad this thread and others I've written on the same subject, get's no play and not even a whisper from anyone in power at ATS.

Why is that?

It's not like I'm telling people anything they don't know: Humanity is a mess. Still, I think the total vacuum surrounding this issue (and the blaring broadcast of all other topics NOT this one) is very telling.

It is said, that the alphabet soup agencies of our world, and of diverse continents, now rule the world. The information power is over all, with congresses, parliment and all else subservient to it.

It is also said that this information power might have created religions as fronts for linguistic mind controll and possibly ritualized trauma in the forms mentioned by Fritz and Cisco and others who are brave enough to investigate. Possibly Fritz himself was programmed as a sort of sleeper-truth agent?

I myself was raised in the Russellite occult group and can attest that the vacuum of silence is quite good in that particular group. I have proved to myself what went on behind the scenes and I have done this through personal interviews of ex-members in and out of the US.

I have found that the idea of the "Homunculous", or a being created of ordure and vileness and brought to life, is an old kabbalistic idea. I have linked to the theory as described in Wikipedia. I have also referenced "Hellboy" because I think it speaks to this in a veiled way. For how do people in the mindset of Hellboy come t be?

The Homunculus is an interesting place to begin, if one is to understand the transformative --or more correctly called "birthing" powers, at work in torture:

wiki/Homunculus

Homunculus of alchemy

In Carl Jung's studies of alchemy, he believed the first record of a homunculus in alchemical literature appeared in the Visions of Zosimos, written in the third century AD, although the actual word "homunculus" was never used. In the visions, Zosimos mentions encountering a man who impales him with a sword, and then undergoes "unendurable torment," his eyes become blood, he spews forth his flesh, and changes into "the opposite of himself, into a mutilated anthroparion, and he tore his flesh with his own teeth, and sank into himself," which is a rather grotesque personification of the ouroboros, the dragon that bites its own tail, which represents the dyophysite nature in alchemy: the balance of two principles. Zosimos later encounters several other homunculi, named as the Brazen Man, the Leaden Man, and so forth. Commonly, the homunculi "submit themselves to unendurable torment" and undergo alchemical transformation. Zosimos made no mention of actually creating an artificial human, but rather used the concept of personifying inanimate metals to further explore alchemy.[1]

In Islamic alchemy, Takwin was a goal of certain Muslim alchemists, notably Jabir ibn Hayyan (later known as Geber in Europe). In the alchemical context, Takwin refers to the artificial creation of life in the laboratory, up to and including human life.

Certainly if the pinnacle of alchemy is to torture a human and thereby in that crucible to create a "new human" (i.e. an alternate personality with no knowledge of the birth-personality), then in such case one can assume why this knowledge is hidden? Why so many others are in the "outer court" where alchemy is all about transmuting lead into gold. But is alchemy really about metal?

To quote Thulsa Doom: "What is steel, compared to the hand that wields it?" In the movie Conan, he says "Look at your body, the strength of your will. I gave you this." ...So in this illuminate film we see the truth which is that in the fires of torture, Thulsa Doom sees himself as the creator of new life. Of the "New Man".



I think there are a lot of people who have a sort of remembrance of torture. There's no forum to discuss it where there won't be obfuscators talking about "false memories" which are also possible to implant so we'll have to continue to wonder...at least for now. One thing is certain: The torturer who sees him or herself as "transmuting" the obvious suffering of the torture victim and subsequently "creating" a new personality when the tortured person's mind is split, is valuable to the Powers That Be not just for their skill in dividing humans, but also in hiding these truths so that the system can continue. Silence serves these systems.

I have given this subject considerable thought and I don't believe that the abuse or torture has to be 'organised' in the sense that Operation Monarch suggests.

A child who suffers any kind of systematic or sustained abuse will suffer mental trauma, that may result in mental compartmentalisation or Disassociative Identity Disorder. All that is required in order to 'utilise' this mental function is to identify a victim of sustained abuse. A trained hypnotist could access any of the victims identities and communicate and 'deal' with that identity without the primary knowing. However, more significantly, these individuals are often vunerable, suffer from drug/alchohol addiction, have criminal records...all factors that make them, especially at the hands of officials and authority figures easily manipulated so depending for what purpose they are 'used' for may not even need any further conditioning. They can be bought, because they may be used to being bought, they can be blackmailed, they can be made to feel fear. They don't therefore need to even have DID, they just need to be damaged in some way. I would hazard that many informants and 'agents for hire' have suffered some form of abuse as a child, this is what makes them useful.

I am reading Jim Marr's Crossfire, and was interested to learn about David Ferrie, who was an alledged associate of Oswald as well as being a CIA asset. He was by all accounts a pederast. Not only did this make him succeptible to blackmail. Given the work he engaged in for the CIA, being by nature a criminal, meant that he was used to the shadier aspect of life, and to me, it seems reasonable that he would have passed on those young boys that he exploited, who fit the profile of possible agents onto his handlers, in one way or another. It wouldn't surprise me if this is how Oswald received his start intelligence.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I have given this subject considerable thought and I don't believe that the abuse or torture has to be 'organised' in the sense that Operation Monarch suggests.

You are correct, and thanks for your considered and excellent post.

A child who suffers any kind of systematic or sustained abuse will suffer mental trauma, that may result in mental compartmentalisation or Disassociative Identity Disorder. All that is required in order to 'utilise' this mental function is to identify a victim of sustained abuse. A trained hypnotist could access any of the victims identities and communicate and 'deal' with that identity without the primary knowing.

This is true, and from my experiences with DID people and hypnosis, what you have said is correct except for the fact that this sort of non-focused trauma seems to create less-deep folds in the mind, and they are more easily smoothed over in the unfolding process. The more intense hopeless feelings are harder to untangle. I have limited but salient experience with people in this position. I do not have recollections of trauma from my own past, and I am glad for that, but I have become good at talking to alters due to my association with certain harmed people.

However, more significantly, these individuals are often vunerable, suffer from drug/alchohol addiction, have criminal records...all factors that make them, especially at the hands of officials and authority figures easily manipulated so depending for what purpose they are 'used' for may not even need any further conditioning.

Again, so true. Also let's recall that alchohol is also called "spirits" and I can say for certain in my experience that two things are true: 1: Alchohol enables alter spirits, and 2: Cannabis disables them and facilitates internal cohesion. I can confirm that a ritually DID person will lose some of their dissociative cohesiveness if they are exposed to cannabis which was shown by MK Ultra to be actually DIScooperative in regards to hypnosis and programming. I do not think many people are aware of this truth but I have seen it happen for myself where a dissociative person will begin talking about their trauma while simultaneously afraid of the things they are saying. The truth will sometimes bubble out of them and it hurts but that's symptomatic of the drug's ability to heal. Alchohol has the opposite affect and actually strengthens or enables the alters to be more in control, in my experience.

They can be bought, because they may be used to being bought, they can be blackmailed, they can be made to feel fear. They don't therefore need to even have DID, they just need to be damaged in some way. I would hazard that many informants and 'agents for hire' have suffered some form of abuse as a child, this is what makes them useful.

Every word you are saying, is true. Thank you.

I am reading Jim Marr's Crossfire, and was interested to learn about David Ferrie, who was an alledged associate of Oswald as well as being a CIA asset. He was by all accounts a pederast. Not only did this make him succeptible to blackmail. Given the work he engaged in for the CIA, being by nature a criminal, meant that he was used to the shadier aspect of life, and to me, it seems reasonable that he would have passed on those young boys that he exploited, who fit the profile of possible agents onto his handlers, in one way or another. It wouldn't surprise me if this is how Oswald received his start intelligence.

Probably what you have said is as possible as the cover-story is ludicrous.

What I find intriguing about this line of thought is that both Fritz and Oswald had a cadence to their words, a paced type of speaking on camera like a recorder playing something back. Remember how Oswald was being interviewed on camera right after the capture and he said he was "Hoping someone will come forward to exonerate me" ...Now why would he say that? To me he looked like a little kid there on camera, hoping someone had not strung him out to dry. I agree with you.

But most importantly, as you have said, anyone who has been hurt can become lost in a dissociative world and also exploited, if they do not understand the mechanisms at work here. Thanks for helping us sketch those mechanisms.

To the best of my knowledge, I was diagnosed with schizoaffective and dissociative identity disorder. But because I haven't any records of said diagnosis, it would seem my current diagnosis has now changed to bipolar and paranoias 'presumably' based on my present alleged confessed delusion on information from a conspiracy site involving 'Mk ultra'.

I also made reference to having recalled meetings and training in Remote Viewing with Russell Targ and allegedly also related with MK ultra programs.

This was stated in front of a witness and apparently also recorded. The psyhciatrist appeared to be taking instructions from another source. Delusional? paranoid? maybe or just very suspicious when people mention the law and getting committed. Possibly typical in order to force meds etc.

Threat to national security? not likely. But I suppose they do whatever they deem necessary to solve the problem. I've heard the expression somewhere: " Death IS retirement" ....Not sure where though.

The psychiatrist also says that DID and repressed memories are not recognized as a diagnosis. They apparently now lump everything as a psychosis?

I have vague recollections of alters and little to no information or aquiring these alters knowledge that apparently spoke other languages also. I was given a recording of at least one of my alleged alters and it was stolen/manipulated by a now ex-friend of mine. To the best of my recall, most of the tape was giberish and a few German words here and there. The end of the tape was supposedly much more accurate and involved.

Most of the past 5 years has been some recall of missing time memories. Many of which appear to involve the paranormal and not just alters. One name which was used to allegedly call this one alter I had also recalled meeting in person. Apparently, not human either. Delusions or false memories, I'm not sure anymore.

I've recalled smashed cars, a few of them flattened and many of them were apparently police cars. Not something I'm capable of having done either. Interesting special effects though.

It's my guess that MK ultra and it's paranormal connections have been around for a very long time or what was formerly known as demonic or spiritual possessions. Much of which seem to be more closely related to the alien and abduction scenarios. Pretty much a part of everything as if some extreme grandiose delusion.

Again, no proof yet, if ever. (yawn)

Originally posted by smallpeeps
How sad people didn't like this thread. I know it's really horrible to comprehend, but honestly, do we really trust science to handle the highest aspects of what it means to be human?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Why do people discuss the stupidest stuff, but don't give a damn about questions which Americans may have to ask themselves in the future.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I wish this subject got more attention, because if it's true. it's just incomprehensibly sad, ya know?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
How sad this thread and others I've written on the same subject, get's no play and not even a whisper from anyone in power at ATS.

Continual whining like that makes me not post.

But it's mainly because of this thread's lack of content, to answer your question specifically.

Originally posted by Johnmike
Continual whining like that makes me not post.

But it's mainly because of this thread's lack of content, to answer your question specifically.

Oh I see, so if there was content to your liking then you might actually get a post together and say something? Wow, I can't wait for that. Anyway I'm content to be seen in whatever light you wish, because I am a good "whiner" and I will use any tactic to expose those things which are hidden. In fact I think your tiny post says much about you, because if you think inquiring about the pain of the innocent is "whining" then I can only hope you haven't bred any children.

NOTE: This thread might require readers to find out about Fritz Springmeyer and Cisco Wheeler and what they've written. Actually informed people on this thread do have things to contribute so I'd say you just need help doing research, which is fine because a lot of people are confused by the Internet and how it is used.

As for the data, it's out there. My advice would be this: Since this thread has been around for years and you've contributed nothing to it's "content", can you please keep doing that? Or else can you tell me what help you need, or if you have any expertise to offer to the question? Maybe I can coax a useful post out of you? I am happy to try.

I mean if you at least were able to follow a couple links and get knowledgable about human trauma and recovery, then maybe you could join the conversation? If not, this thread will sit here for another few years without you just fine.