Hillsborough, Liverpool Pushers Are The Most Special Snowflakes Of All

a reply to: Shiloh7

And you get one star for this?

. . . deliberately making our police force so dysfunctional.

Don't they see this? Don't they know what it means?

I'm sure various departments are listed as companies because they purchase and sometimes sell on stock. But the fact remains a constable has sworn to go in where the rest of us have a choice. It's an oath thing. Imprecise and imperfect as it is. The oath to protect society. Dibell epitomises it. In this video at 00:58 "Another guy, flew past the house," That was Ian Dibell keeping his appointment with death. Ian Dibell, Oath Keeper.

a reply to: Freeborn

He has told me that they experienced very similar things . . .

One description I heard of conditions in the pens at a previous match was "Like a slaughterhouse". I believe they observed over years to see where to put in the 'one or two additional influences'.

In addition they were very brutal and uncaring in their attitude to fans who were literally dying in front of them.

The police had been fed a meal shortly before kick off. Usually they got sandwiches and crisps to eat when they could. This is another detail that speaks of an organised operation.

They were instructed to remain detached. Looking at some of the video, the way their arms hang down by their sides, I could almost think they'd been drugged. Certainly they were sedated by a full belly and instructed to remain detached. This is all in the inquest evidence.

It was arranged that they would react to the unfolding disaster in a way that could be portrayed as uncaring. That on top of the us and them mentality prevalent at the time.


Coppers are prone to cover-ups. As you say the cover-up was far reaching, to say the least. It would be very easy to lead coppers into an over-enthusiastic cover-up, with the intention of 'exposing' it later. 'Coincidentally' just before the next PCC elections and in the midst of the war against the Office of Constable.


Since the crushes were regular occurrences and the club failed to deal with it they must hold a large part of the responsibility.

a reply to: LABTECH767

My son lived in Treeton for a while. It's a village above Orgreave. He was excited when he spoke to me on the phone. He said, "On the first night the neighbour said what you've been saying. There were military dressed as police at Orgreave."

You'll find endless references for this. For example.

We have our own evidence questionnaires completed by miners arrested at Orgreave, and some witness statements re use of the army and police agent provocateurs.

www.email-lists.org...

Let's not blame police for the actions of military.

Also there were provocateurs pretending to be miners, but the miners sussed them out and threw them back at police lines. Somewhere there's a photograph of a pile of provocateurs. The miners assumed they were police, but they could have been military. www.abovetopsecret.com...

. . . the strength of spirit and determination in the people of Liverpool . . .

They deliberately create a pool of mourners to be used as a pressure group. They do it with mass shootings etc. They did it with Hillsborough. Liverpool was chosen exactly for the qualities you describe.

When the barrier broke the pool of mourners created became larger and more powerful than planned. Should any part of that group now turn and ask the difficult questions . . .

a reply to: LABTECH767

Liverpool does not even rank among them . . .

Liverpool were known for travelling in larger numbers than other supporters. That, and the habit of creating a crush to effect free entry, were contributing factors.

a reply to: LABTECH767

. . . could have been saved by proper crisis management . . .

There we have Walter Jackson. Most senior constable present. Failed to use the codeword. Organised the useless cordon, seen doing it on video in his civvies, sneaky devil.

Is Walter getting the exposure he deserves?

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: LABTECH767

Liverpool does not even rank among them . . .

Liverpool were known for travelling in larger numbers than other supporters. That, and the habit of creating a crush to effect free entry, were contributing factors.

So the total failure of Duckenfield to police the crowd properly, as well as to fail to realise that the roadworks would result in many fans being delayed had nothing to do with it? This is beyond disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Jackson chose Duckenfield.

Thanks for mentioning the roadworks. It would be a difficult job now to learn all about those roadworks. For example why didn't the Liverpool fans know they would be delayed? Was there really no way to know? Surely there would have been many drivers who would have been aware and able to spread the word. Or did those roadworks suddenly spring up then disappear as part of the black op?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I'm not ashamed to fight for justice for the dead. Just because my version is different doesn't mean I'm wrong.

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Jackson chose Duckenfield.

Thanks for mentioning the roadworks. It would be a difficult job now to learn all about those roadworks. For example why didn't the Liverpool fans know they would be delayed? Was there really no way to know? Surely there would have been many drivers who would have been aware and able to spread the word. Or did those roadworks suddenly spring up then disappear as part of the black op?

This was 1989. It was before the internet and social media. The roadworks were known to be there, but Duckenfield didn't think that they'd be a factor, because he was an idiot. He also didn't go to the Leppings Lane entrance to check it out and get a better idea of the problems. We know this. He admitted that it was all his fault. There were no 'pushers'. There was no 'black op'. It was all a story of utter police incompetence that they've been trying to hide for years. They failed. And you should still be ashamed of yourself for this disgusting thread.

if your campaining for the truth your going about it the wrong way your claming fans were paid to push and comin t dosent seem like someone fighting for the fans to claim that suporters were paid as part of a conspiracy to comit murdur by the goverment is just ludicrus one minite your saying it was a goverment plan to murdur these lfans next your saying it was the liverpool fans the lies that were spread by the police have been proved to be just that lies ticketles fans caused this? no it was just a police incompitence dealing with the aftermath your threads prove nothing to people the fans were exonerated and the real tradgedy s that ther wil probably be no punishment for poor mismanagment of the incident these threads are nothing but a slur on the fans that died that day shame on you

to say they deliberatly created a pool of mourners is just sick

a reply to: ukgaz

They did it.

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: ukgaz

They did it.

No they didn't. There has never been any proof whatsoever of your so-called 'pushers'.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

And he was chosen by Jackson, who is also alleged to have staged a mental breakdown in the control room stopping the loudspeakers from being used to give life saving instructions. Also on video in plain clothes organising the much criticised cordon.

It's as fishy as could be. Duckenfield's just the fall guy.

I don't know where to find the links but I know there are those who were in the pens who want to know why no-one is trying to identify the pushers in the pens. Pushers in the rush on the turnstile are credited with briefly lifting a police horse off it's feet, and bringing it to it's knees.

There were pushers. Outside the turnstiles the intention was to get in without paying, acknowledged by many fans, but nearly always accompanied by excuses like '99% of the time nobody got hurt'.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Are you serious? Check the extensive evidence made available through the inquest.

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

And he was chosen by Jackson, who is also alleged to have staged a mental breakdown in the control room stopping the loudspeakers from being used to give life saving instructions. Also on video in plain clothes organising the much criticised cordon.

It's as fishy as could be. Duckenfield's just the fall guy.


I don't know where to find the links but I know there are those who were in the pens who want to know why no-one is trying to identify the pushers in the pens. Pushers in the rush on the turnstile are credited with briefly lifting a police horse off it's feet, and bringing it to it's knees.

There were pushers. Outside the turnstiles the intention was to get in without paying, acknowledged by many fans, but nearly always accompanied by excuses like '99% of the time nobody got hurt'.

Again, no. There has NEVER been any proof of these so-called pushers! It was a screw-up from start to finish by the police, a screw-up that the police have always tried to hide by blaming the fans. When you have too many people cramming themselves into too small an area, with poor to non-existent crowd control by the police (Duckenfield), with yet more people arriving late because of the roadworks then you have all the makings of a dangerous crush. They didn't need 'pushers'. When the gate was opened on the orders of a panicking idiot who didn't even order that the doors to the central pens be closed - and then Liverpool hits the bar of the goal, making the crowd roar - then you had the perfect storm of circumstances. No 'pushers' - the situation didn't need any 'pushers'.