The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

a reply to: ignorant_ape

no idea.
which means I just remembered it incorrectly.

a reply to: alienDNA

oops sorry meant three fingers.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

If you are correct, this could be actual evidence of fate (if you were proven correct, I mean.) If changes in reality do not alter the paths we are on in life, and the greater path that humanity is on, this could mean that all paths are destined. This would work similar to a race track, where cars can only go one way, no matter which way they adjust their position or are forced out of position. For all their mindfulness and decision making, they all end up where they were meant to (unless someone crashes.) In this sense I guess, a "crash" would be death. We all crash eventually, since we loop around endlessly in this crazy thing called life, making decisions to change our realities, but do we really change anything? What if you end up as you do in life because you were meant to, and circumstance happened to allow it to be that way?

Now THAT is fascinating. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, seriously that's incredibly interesting. Many people have believed that there is an element of fate, or destiny, in the lives of all humans who have ever existed, and perhaps, if we can ever prove ME-type reality changes (I don't think we can, at least not for a couple thousand years), then we'll have a solid basis for making that belief somewhat scientific. If we are all on a path that is somewhat predetermined, or at least with very few permutations, then perhaps we are here less 'to do', than 'to learn' from what we end up doing/ what happens to us. If we are each ascribed a set number of days in which to learn what we are supposed to learn, then the only true tragedy of life would be failing to learn those lessons before the time is up. Everything else is just 'details'...

We should therefore learn to be content, no matter our circumstance - if we are at peace with 'the details', then the lessons can begin.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
Now THAT is fascinating. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, seriously that's incredibly interesting. Many people have believed that there is an element of fate, or destiny, in the lives of all humans who have ever existed, and perhaps, if we can ever prove ME-type reality changes (I don't think we can, at least not for a couple thousand years), then we'll have a solid basis for making that belief somewhat scientific. If we are all on a path that is somewhat predetermined, or at least with very few permutations, then perhaps we are here less 'to do', than 'to learn' from what we end up doing/ what happens to us. If we are each ascribed a set number of days in which to learn what we are supposed to learn, then the only true tragedy of life would be failing to learn those lessons before the time is up. Everything else is just 'details'...

We should therefore learn to be content, no matter our circumstance - if we are at peace with 'the details', then the lessons can begin.

Does that concept fit with your theory? For instance, let's say Tibet was changed from a province in China to an autonomous region in China. According to your theory, such a change is possible (from what I understand).

If the quote directly above is true, how could all of the new jobs that are necessary to manage an autonomous region versus a province be filled? If people's destiny's can't be changed much then how can people just be moved into the new positions necessary for the bigger, more powerful government of Tibet after the change is made?

I don't see how the quote directly above fits with your larger theory.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: DJW001

Did you read the post properly? If so, you have to concede that logic cannot discount the possibility of time manipulations resulting in the phenomenon we're discussing.

The Mandela Effect could be accounted for as artefacts being added to, changed or subtracted from the Timestream. This would include the result that all material evidence appears to sit on the side of the skeptic. The only form of evidence for the phenomenon would be the subjective memories of those who have escaped the conditioning process. However unlikely the Mandela Effect is - logic cannot refute the premise that some external force could be manipulating our reality. It cannot be proven, it cannot be disproven.

I'm taking up your "logic challenge." Here's my answer which you have ignored so far:

I've seen estimates that the number of people from the "Berenstein universe" (for lack of a better term) is anywhere from thousands to millions. I have no idea how such estimates are being made. Regardless, if your theory is right, how can around 99% of humanity miss the huge changes such as South America moving? I cannot believe people are claiming that education has anything to do with knowing where continents are located or the basic structure of our bodies.

If your logical hypothesis is true, it would have to affect everyone in this reality. However, it only seems to be affecting less than 1% of the people here from what I can tell.

How do you answer that?

originally posted by: alienDNA
a reply to: Profusion

I remember 56 states or at LEAST 5x states.
Absolutely positive

References to memory are not going to mean anything to those of us who are convinced that our reality has changed. I can tell by your post quoted above that you still think the Mandela Effect is something to be made light of. Here's a wake-up call. The video below is long. Would you just watch the last few minutes and see how the woman in the video reacts? That's how I've been reacting as I've found out new things recently that shook me to the core. I've read many posts by people writing things like "I'm shaking as I write this" pertaining to the Mandela Effect. Your references to memory are non-sequiturs for people like the woman in the video below. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish. Can you show me one person whose mind you've changed on the topic of the Mandela Effect?


www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Profusion

That goes way beyond "faulty memory"/"bad memory." It goes beyond "bad education" too.

Wrong. It is the very definition of "bad education." How were the stars arranged on the flag? As for the gentleman whose children "disappeared," why do you believe him?

a reply to: Profusion

I have changed no one's mind.
however in time I'm sure that this thing will be without any reasonable doubt - explained as purely psychological.
I'll watch that vid. however I'm sure I know what kind of video it is. someone reacting in horror to the reality changes?
which is why I've said all along this goes further than memory error.
which lead me to conclude that it has to be a psy op of some kind. possibly a drug. no idea.
but that it goes further than memory error is something I believe, as well.

what it is NOT though , is reality actually changing.
we are not living in a scifi novel.
it is most definitely psychological.
and soon that will be proven I'm sure.

a reply to: Profusion

Can you show me one person whose mind you've changed on the topic of the Mandela Effect?

Minds are infinitely easier to change than the entire universe. Reality is not determined democratically. People who try to explain the "Mandela Effect" erroneously invoke two conflicting interpretations of quantum physics.

On the one hand, they believe that the human mind is somehow separate and "above" physical reality. This is based on a popular misunderstanding of the Copenhagen Interpretation, in which "Schroedinger's Cat" is assumed to be both dead and alive until it is observed. This misinterpretation gives the human mind the power to "create reality," and has led to countless New Age scams. The Copenhagen Interpretation is not an assertion of the definitive nature of reality, only a means of conceptualizing the mathematics. Probability waves describe potential outcomes which can only be verified by observations. Schroedinger's hapless cat knows full well whether it is alive or dead; we observers have no way of knowing by calculation alone.

On the other hand, the theories also assume that the "Many Worlds" interpretation is also true. In the popular understanding of this, every time someone makes a choice, a new, parallel universe is created in which the individual makes the opposite choice, and the new universe diverges accordingly. It's not that simple. In an infinite universe, every event, from the decay of a subatomic particle to the exact moment that a star collapses into a black hole generates a new "timeline." Infinite worlds are constantly being created, and they diverge from each other with infinite "speed." There is no "universe next door." By the time you decide to zig instead of zag, an infinite number of universes, created by the decay of an infinite number of subatomic particles, etc, has pushed the "zig universe" an infinite distance away from the "zag universe."

Once again, believing that the "Mandela Effect" is due to anything but human fallibility is an assertion that you, personally, are infallible.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Profusion

That goes way beyond "faulty memory"/"bad memory." It goes beyond "bad education" too.

Wrong. It is the very definition of "bad education." How were the stars arranged on the flag? As for the gentleman whose children "disappeared," why do you believe him?

Study the sociology of knowledge. Education is not the only way that knowledge is transferred in society. That's why I wrote "it goes beyond 'bad education.'"

In order to believe that the results we're discussing are absolutely the result of "bad education", you have to believe that "bad memory" isn't a possibility. Oh, the irony.

I believe I promised never to reply to you again but I couldn't resist that one. Unbelievable.

originally posted by: alienDNA
what it is NOT though , is reality actually changing.

originally posted by: alienDNA
So what I should ask you, why couldnt I have an open mind?
In fact my mind is as open as can be.

Please read the two quotes above.

How can someone engage in that kind of doublethink?

I haven't run across anyone who claims that "reality [is] actually changing." Can you quote anyone who's made that claim? How could you misrepresent the case of the people you're trying to 'debunk' if you're truly trying to be honest?

I haven't seen a Mandela Effect believer claim that "reality [is] actually changing." Many of us believe it's changed because of our evidence in our own experience. I showed you a video of a man who traveled throughout South America and he gave his reasons for why the position of the continent has changed based on his intimate personal knowledge of the land. You wouldn't accept that testimony.

originally posted by: alienDNA
a reply to: Profusion

Any subjective story regarding someones own personal memory is not evidence...
That is why, in this thread, in this subject, I cannot recognize personal experience as evidence.

That's another example of how your mind is not "as open as can be." There's a reason that someone can testify on their own behalf in a court of law. It's because testimony about one's own experience is relevant to a court case.

You're playing jury, judge, and executioner in terms of the people who are reporting experiencing the Mandela Effect. You only allow the evidence that you subjectively think should be allowed (based on nothing but your own opinions) and you proceed to the outcome of the case regardless of what evidence you see.

Then, you wonder why people aren't taking you seriously in this thread.

originally posted by: alienDNA
It is also a mind grounded in reality.

Only in your own mind.

There's no "reasonable doubt" that you're creating for me or anyone else I've read in this thread. You are playing devil's advocate and I appreciate that. But, in order for you to be creating "reasonable doubt", your arguments and methodology would have to be reasonable.

a reply to: Profusion

I tried watching that video. it was very hard to just watch a few minutes.. she is obviously not well. :/
and I feel for her.
how was that a wake up call?
it even more so leads me to believe it is obviously psychological.

That's not accurate. Nothing would shift as those masses of land share tectonic plates with other land masses. If anything sea/ocean water would just fill in he areas that are missing.

a reply to: alienDNA

a reply to: Profusion

lol I didn't say I was creating any reasonable doubt.
learn to read if you're gonna accuse me of things.

I don't have any doublethink at all. it's perfectly clear to me. and if you don't understand what I mean that's fine.

Devils advocate eh. you people just love to call people names don't you.

and wtf. obviously if you don't believe it's psychological then reality had to have changed wouldn't it??

pff I'm so done with you lol

Talk about a post that highlights a total lack of logic...

Your examples are not good because that evidence would exist out there somewhere. Don't you get that?

You also avoided the right one: people were wrong.

Edit: in another post you estimated millions. That's just wishful thinking on your part. Based on YouTube participation and sites like this I would say it's under 100k, and I'm being extremely generous. I would go further and say 99% of them are American or English is their first language.

a reply to: Profusion

a reply to: raymundoko

in twilight zone anything is possible

a reply to: Profusion

Study the sociology of knowledge. Education is not the only way that knowledge is transferred in society. That's why I wrote "it goes beyond 'bad education.'"

Education is not limited to schools; it is a cultural phenomenon.

In order to believe that the results we're discussing are absolutely the result of "bad education", you have to believe that "bad memory" isn't a possibility. Oh, the irony.

Of course bad memory is a possibility, as I have continuously emphasized.

I believe I promised never to reply to you again but I couldn't resist that one. Unbelievable.

Perfectly believable, unlike the "Mandela Effect."

a reply to: Profusion

I haven't run across anyone who claims that "reality [is] actually changing."

Oh? Then what about the two children who allegedly disappeared?

originally posted by: raymundoko
Talk about a post that highlights a total lack of logic...

Your examples are not good because that evidence would exist out there somewhere. Don't you get that?

I found a video of Michio Kaku analyzing Back to the Future.


www.youtube.com...

Quoting Doc Brown from the video above:

Doc Brown: Obviously the time continuum has been disrupted, creating a new temporal event sequence resulting in this alternate reality.

Marty: English, Doc!

Doc Brown: Here. Here, let me demonstrate. Let’s say that this line represents time. [draws straight line and points to places] Here’s the present 1985, the future and the past. Obviously, somewhere in the past the timeline skewed down into this tangent [draws new line and writes 1985A] creating an alternate 1985. Alternate to you, me, and Einstein, but reality for everyone else.

Quoting Kaku from the video above:

"When Doc Brown went to the blackboard, drew the timeline, the river of time. And, then drew a fork in the river of time, that's how we physicists view the possibility of time travel. You jump from one stream to another stream. So, if you go backwards in time you enter an alternate reality. A quantum alternate reality. And, Back to the Future, to my knowledge, is the only film which gets it right."

If my theory about entering an alternate reality is correct then there can be no evidence that exists in this reality to prove that I'm right (according to what Kaku explained above).

originally posted by: raymundoko
You also avoided the right one: people were wrong.
[/post]

This is where Occam's razor comes in. I am making one assumption and that is I shifted realities. I don't even believe that because I never believe a theory that requires an assumption. I only think that is the theory which is the most plausible one for my situation.

The "faulty memory"/"bad memory" theory is nearly impossible.

The "faulty memory"/"bad memory" theory is reliant on making an assumption for every Mandela Effect by every person. It is not one assumption; it is a different assumption for each Mandela Effect. If a person has 100 Mandela Effects, "faulty memory"/"bad memory" theory requires 100 separate assumptions.

Let's consider some alternate theories for how people could remember "Luke, I am your father" rather than "No, I am your father." We have many possible scenarios that explain why that could happen other than "bad memory" and "parallel universes."

1. There could be copies of the film out there that were censored in different ways. For instance, some governments edit things from films in order to allow them to be shown in their countries. It's conceivable that the word "No" could have been changed to "Luke."

2. There could be copies of the film out there with bad subtitle translations. Someone who's going by the subtitles only (not being able to understand the English) could understand "No" as "Luke."

3. There could be copies of the film out there with bad overdubbings in other languages. The word "No" may have been dubbed as "Luke."

4. George Lucas may have been up to his old tricks with editing. He could conceivably have edited some copies secretly.

5. There could be copies of the film out there with bad subtitles in English. Hearing impaired people could be reading "Luke" when it should read "No."

There are five more theories (outside of the alternate reality theory) that are also possible.

originally posted by: alienDNA
a reply to: Profusion

I tried watching that video. it was very hard to just watch a few minutes.. she is obviously not well. :/

You're assuming that and then stating it as a fact.

originally posted by: alienDNA
i completely understand what people like profusion is trying to do.

You couldn't understand because you don't think what I'm through is a possibility.

a reply to: tigertatzen

The show was really interesting. It was an exploration. Clyde talks about a lot of interesting subjects which appeal to me. The ME subject has been one of his most requested shows of late so after he did more research he decided to do another show on the topic. He took many callers during the two hours I was listening. He didn't go into his usual fourth hour last night because of early morning travel plans.

There's always an article posted pre-show at his website on what the topic will be later that night. Here's the link to that article.

My AM station, EST, picks him up between 11 PM and 1 AM Monday - Thursday and only 12 PM to 1 AM on Fridays.

I don't know right now if there will be a transcript. I'm sorry you're hearing impaired. That would mean you didn't listen to a video I posted about a talk given to doctors in 1968 and which was recounted 20 years later by one of the doctor's present concerning the global planners plans for humanity which included changing certain words in the Bible in order to bring down Christianity. A few words at first, then more would be changed. It was not stated as to HOW this would be done. It was also stated in the recounting that not enough people would notice the word changes in the Bible to make a difference. (LOL!)

[This is just a thought but the Piscean Age was all about religions and beliefs. The Aquarian Age is all about technology and shocking new ideas.]

Well, after last night's show the number of people who now know about the Mandela Effect received a huge bump because of Clyde's AM radio exposure.

The show can be listened to here for anyone who can and wants to listen.