The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

a reply to: raymundoko

What I realize is there still exists examples of what people remember. ETA: Online anyway.

a reply to: tweetie

examples from people who ALSO remember it wrong, spell it wrong, or say it wrong. So HOW is that proof. Meh... Unfathomable how you can accept this craziness on the whim of "we know what we know" and you dont even require proof for yourselves. Its like youre affected with some sort of psy-warfare, im being honest here..
Cause even the basic logic you learn at the age of 4-5, seems to not work for you anymore.
This is a fu**in psy-op.

originally posted by: tweetie
a reply to: raymundoko

What I realize is there still exists examples of what people remember. ETA: Online anyway.

and in memes and in old newspapers and some pictures, and some movies by accident, like Dazed and confused.

a reply to: raymundoko
OK, I decided to do 2 hours of research into this phenomena to gather some actual empirical evidence of at least one of these claims. I decided to choose the Fruit Loops vs Froot Loops since I have some in my pantry as we speak. So, it is close to home for me. There are numerous cases of misspellings that children would remember regarding "Fruit Loops" vs. "Froot Loops". Where the correct spelling is a made-up word, Froot (legally Kellog's could not use the word Fruit in advertising it since it contains no real fruit).

Let's start this journey with misspelling as "Fruit"

For the childhood memories
(1989) Small Wonders: Hands-on Science Activities for Young Children

(2007) Crossing Caine's Road



For the adult memories
(1996) The World of the Autistic Child: Understanding and Treating Autistic Spectrum Disorders

(2013) Cereal Sweets & Treats


Find more at this Google Books Search Link

The correct trademarked name "Froot"

Kellogg's Own History (always correct "Froot" spelling)
A link to Take a fruity walk down memory lane showing the history of the brand.

Existing video/commercials

Commercial from 1962


Commercial from 1981


Commercial from 1995


Conclusion

So now, you may be wondering why the difference in spelling? Well, if you understand trademark law you will know the answer. The name of the cereal is (and always was) trademarked as "Froot Loops (tm)". If you want to write and publish something discussing the cereal, and want to use the trademarked name, you need to go through the Kellogg's legal department. Typically that means paying them for the right to use the name in your publication. However, there is a legal loophole whereas if you use the name "Fruit Loops" it is not violating their trademark at all. So, in any publication that did not get legal approval to use the trademarked actual cereal name in their publication, you will see it written as "Fruit Loops". Which is also why all the official Kellogg's usage is "Froot Loops (tm)" on boxes, paraphernalia commercials,, etc...

So, those that read the "fruit" spelling remember that one more unless they regularly purchased the actual cereal or otherwise always exposed in some way to the boxes or commercial product placement, etc... So, in a sense, their memory is partially correct, since the actual trademarked name never was spelled as "Fruit" due to the legal issues Kellogg's avoided by using a made up word of "Froot".


I hope this helps clarify this just a bit for some folks. It only took a few hours of my time to dig into it to find a viable reason for the discrepancy in the memories of these folks. I suspect something similar might be happening for the other things brought up surrounding this phenomenon.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Well, I do respect that you gave a well researched answer.

MUCH easier to read than a bunch of people parroting bad memories over and over again.

A lot of the spelling ones are not MEs for me personally.

For me it is more visual things like maps and anatomy etc, and music and some movie lines, so things I have either seen over and over and over, or heard over and over and over, or sang with my own voice etc.

a reply to: Krakatoa

I appreciate your time and effort.

The first boxes had an orange and a lemon in place of the two O's so it was a facsimile of FROOT and wasn't changed until later; two round cereal pieces (loops) in place of the two O's and two actual O's on other boxes.

Years ago, when the cereal was launched, companies could get away with, for example, calling something FRUIT when it actually had no fruit in it but in more recent years and currently people will and do call them out. That's just an observation I've made over the years as I pay attention to things like that.

Kellogg, you must swear to me your company never, ever produced any boxes labeled Fruit Loops (in any timeline or parallel reality, LOL!) and landed on store shelves which used the actual word FRUIT on the box before being forced to pull them since your cereal didn't contain any fruit. I have to check to make sure no one has found any boxes which show the word FRUIT because I can't recall if I've seen an image of one. It's possible. That doesn't mean I take any image online as correctly portrayed (especially not geographic maps and placement of body parts).

I'd love to have one of those 1979 toucan night lights!

I have to agree that the news paper article mistakes only prove that many people make similar mistakes. You can experiment with this yourself. Do a google search for any commonly misspelled word. I put in, "rediculous" because I see that one the most and filtered out anything with the correct spelling in it by putting -ridiculous next to it. 400,000+ results. This is because it's a common mistake that many people make. They think and remember the word spelled with an E. It doesn't mean that the spelling changed at some point, it means they were mistaken.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: TombEscaper

You may have missed my post from earlier as it was crunched at the end of the last page and we responded to posts almost simultaneously.

You can't compare short term and long term memory on equal footing. The argument is not that people claim their memories are completely infallible as a whole. They claim they are CERTAIN in the details of a particular memory, usually from 10-20 years ago, which I do not think is possible unless you are one of the rare individuals out there with photographic memory.

I can be certain about a memory I experienced an hour or ago or even a week ago. But 20 years? It would be different if they had been reading the Bears books on a consistent basis for the past 20 years. Comparing remembering your friends first names and the birthday song, things you are consistently reminded of throughout your life, to memories that haven't been touched in 20 years is flat out faulty logic. Yeah, we can be certain of things we do or practice on a daily basis, but these MEs are old memories in most cases, which throws a a stick in your spokes when attempting to dismiss faulty memory as a potential cause.

Again, I'm not saying fallible memory accounts for every single ME out there, just that you can't discount it as a possible explanation for many of them. This is why I'm looking for examples that can't be dismissed as such.

I didn't miss it, but I just hadn't had a chance to reply until now.

As many of us have been trying to convey again and again, the ME is not confined to a "long-term memory" issue. It's getting quite tedious, so I'm going to be brief.

As I explained in the long post directed to you a few pages ago, there are all sorts of differences in memory; short term/long term, one-time events vs. prolonged exposure to the same thing, etc.

There is a mistaken belief (or dare I say, stubborn insistence) by the "nonbelievers" that things like the Berenstein conundrum are relegated to a bunch of 30 and 40 somethings that haven't thought about the Bears in decades. This is simply not true. If you do your homework, you will see that people as young as their TEENS have been astonished to see that the Berenstein Bears they remember have never actually existed. I personally know of youngsters who remember reading or watching the BerenstEin Bears, as recently as less than ten years ago. They are as adamant as any older person that they know what they remember, which is the e. So the continued drum-beating about long-term memory failure is a tired and useless notion that people will probably soon just stop even addressing.

And again, as I mentioned to you with the Mr. Rogers song, regardless of how "long ago" these things were, these are not one-time incident memories. These are instances of prolonged exposure to the same thing; in some cases for years.

And this is only focusing on two of the ME's. Many of the others can be dissected to show that long-term memory is NOT an issue with these things.

I understand you're trying to remain serious, civil, and objective (unlike many of your fellow "skeptics"), but it is just getting tiresome, repetitive, and pointless to keep having to rehash these things.

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: hidingthistime
This one I so weird, but it is also one of the clinchers for me...... it has always beend DEPENDS!

my mind can not accept DEPEND.....it is too wrong ad creepy! Lol

LOL I understand it is easier on the tongue to add an S.

Today I had time to rest and research a bit more on some Mandela stuff, and I'm sorry but it seems like media has made you all learn wrong spellings that have become ingrained in your memories.

Nothing to do with "easier on the tongue." The brand name was Depends.

originally posted by: TombEscaper

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: hidingthistime
This one I so weird, but it is also one of the clinchers for me...... it has always beend DEPENDS!

my mind can not accept DEPEND.....it is too wrong ad creepy! Lol

LOL I understand it is easier on the tongue to add an S.

Today I had time to rest and research a bit more on some Mandela stuff, and I'm sorry but it seems like media has made you all learn wrong spellings that have become ingrained in your memories.

Nothing to do with "easier on the tongue." The brand name was Depends.

Yeah. Because you can depends on them for protection from leaks.
Makes a ton of sense.

originally posted by: hidingthistime

originally posted by: TombEscaper

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: TombEscaper

Let me be the one to ask you a few questions for a change. Seeing as how you equate full assuredness about certain remembered things with a declaration of having a "perfect and infallible" memory, do YOU:

use a GPS navigational system en route to every place you travel to; nearby friends' or family members' homes, your local grocery store, your bank, your workplace, etc?

No.

If not, why not?

Because reliance on GPS dulls one's navigational skills. When travelling to a new destination, I consult a map. A map is a form of stored visual information, compiled by others and therefore objective. If it has been some time since I have visited somewhere, a nearby suburb I haven't visited since childhood, I also consult a map. Why? Because I know that I may have forgotten the route, not having traveled it recently. Also, streets and highways are sometimes closed or revised, so I consult a recent map. As for my commute to work, there are times when, due to road closures or traffic jams, I decide to take an alternate route. This is when my navigational skills come into play: I know which major arteries run in which direction, which tend to be more heavily trafficked, etc. I also know which neighborhoods they pass through. If I am not in a hurry, I will actually detour just to revisit a neighborhood I haven't visited recently just for the joy of seeing how it has changed.

Do you have to pull out a lyric sheet to read from every time you sing "Happy Birthday" to someone?

Only if I need to sing the second or third verse.

If not, why not?

Because the lyrics and tune are very brief and redundantly encoded. Also, this tiny packet of information gets repeated frequently over time. Now you admit that you didn't know there was more than one verse. That's not due to a warp in spacetime... it's just that hardly anyone ever sings them so you didn't know they exist!

When talking to long-time familiar friends, acquaintances, and family members, do you first verify their names before addressing them by their names?

No, I pretend I remember their names even when I can't quite remember them.

If not, why not?

Because I don't want to create social embarrassment.

I am rather looking forward to what tactics you will use to duck, dodge, evade, twist, and manipulate this. I know you're quite creative in that way.

Not nearly as creative as you are. Now, once again, why do you think there is anything other than faulty memory, inattentiveness, or lack of interest/education involved in the "Mandela Effect" you have been trolling?

Gregory Hines himself would be impressed with this tap dancing!

Let me give a healthy synopsis of what has happened here. You have put forth the (nonsensical) premise that anyone who remains fully confident in certain memories is somehow claiming to have an infallible and "Godlike" memory. Those are the words you have used, which all can see, and you own that.

Hence, I asked you three questions that are clearly based upon the notion of ingrained MEMORY that you have full certainty of. But, knowing that if you answered the questions honestly and directly, you would fall under the self-indictment of claiming to have an infallible and Godlike memory (according to your own trollish logic), you instead danced.

So the first answer was dodgy from the start. Instead of confessing that you don't use GPS to get to your job, or bank, or local store because you confidently REMEMBER how to get to those places, you blather something about not using GPS so that it doesn't dull your "navigational skills." (Do you regularly compete in some sort of navigational skills contests that you have to stay sharp for?) Then you veer way off course (pun intended) and start talking about traveling to new destinations, when the question dealt strictly with familiar, regular destinations.

Then, when talking about commuting to work, the topic suddenly becomes alternate routes due to construction! And then you go on to talk about taking the "scenic route" to reminisce about the good old days. What does any of this have to do with the question asked?

I don't know about your navigational skills, but your bait and switch tactics need a lot of refinement.

As for the HB lyrics, you made an interesting shift trying to put me on the defensive about not knowing about extra verses to the song, to avoid the clear implications of the fact that if you were to admit that you don't need a lyric sheet to recite the words to the conventional rendering of the song, you are admitting that you have full confidence in the MEMORY of the words. Which would again cause a self-indictment that you are claiming an infallible, Godlike memory.

I find this highly entertaining, and I truly hope others have been following along our discourse here, to see the tactics being used.

This has got to be one of the best replies to a troll I have ever seen!

I love your logic! You are an inspiration. You just steer right back to topic, I need to learn from this! Thank you!

I am seeing excessive trollery to be a huge part of the mandela effect.

Thanks! We will not let them bully, manipulate, or derail matters into unrelated subjects. They've given us plenty of practice to get a feel for their tactics now.

originally posted by: alienDNA

originally posted by: hidingthistime

I am seeing excessive trollery to be a huge part of the mandela effect.

Could it be because this particular "theory" is so very easily explainable, and the fact that you flat out REFUSE to accept that - you instead CHOSE to go with crackpot theories that DOESNT have any proof.

Considering this, its EXTREMELY frustrating to see other humans go down that road and we cant do anything about it.
Its scary.

But noo. We are "trolls". we are "asleep". ETC.
All the common "confirmation bias" type of retorts.

Sigh. Its extremely frustrating. Im trying to let go, but its hard to accept that alot of people is going to go mad. I feel helpless.

It is appreciated, but no need to stress too much over us. We're fine with delving into one of the most important and baffling wonders in human history. There is no stopping the torrent now. Feel free to ride the wave, or get out of the way.

a reply to: Phage

Do you have memories of hearing or seeing DEPENDS but have relegated it to faulty memory or have you always remembered it as DEPEND?

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: TombEscaper

So several people break down for you the differences in the type of memories you are attempting to use in your line of questioning...and that's what you come up with? You aren't very good at this, or you are intentionally being obtuse.

Any truly objective analyzer can clearly see that the specific questions were dodged.

a reply to: Krakatoa


It is commendable that you are putting honest work into your investigations. I believe those who haven't experienced it yet but genuinely keep a somewhat open mind may eventually begin to experience it.

a reply to: TombEscaper
Doubtful, as there is nothing to experience IMO. With that said, I will repeat what I stated in another thread out of courtesy. I see now no matter how much you are provided, you will ignore all input that does not meet your internally accepted narrative. So, I bid you well. I certainly hope you survive this mental conundrum you seem to be having here... I mean that.

Safe travels. This will be my last post on this topic forever.

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: TombEscaper

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: hidingthistime
This one I so weird, but it is also one of the clinchers for me...... it has always beend DEPENDS!

my mind can not accept DEPEND.....it is too wrong ad creepy! Lol

LOL I understand it is easier on the tongue to add an S.

Today I had time to rest and research a bit more on some Mandela stuff, and I'm sorry but it seems like media has made you all learn wrong spellings that have become ingrained in your memories.

Nothing to do with "easier on the tongue." The brand name was Depends.

Yeah. Because you can depends on them for protection from leaks.
Makes a ton of sense.

Perhaps you are correct. It is silly that a diaper brand name would be plural.

Some of my personal favorite diaper brands are Luv, Huggie, and Pamper.

a reply to: TombEscaper

Any truly objective analyzer can clearly see that the specific questions were dodged.

Any truly objective analysis exposes your manipulations. You have never addressed any of the issues raised. All you have done is make ad hominem attacks. Pathetic.

a reply to: TombEscaper

That's funny!!

Keeping one's sense of humor while delving into this phenomenon is essential. I can't tell you how many times I've burst out laughing because it's so bizarre.

originally posted by: Barcs
I have to agree that the news paper article mistakes only prove that many people make similar mistakes. You can experiment with this yourself. Do a google search for any commonly misspelled word. I put in, "rediculous" because I see that one the most and filtered out anything with the correct spelling in it by putting -ridiculous next to it. 400,000+ results. This is because it's a common mistake that many people make. They think and remember the word spelled with an E. It doesn't mean that the spelling changed at some point, it means they were mistaken.

I do agree that with a lot of words things are just common spelling mistakes, but if your best friends name was say, Larry George, and it switched to Larry Gorge, and you noticed, you might thnk it a tad strange. ?