The emasculation of the modern male

a reply to: onequestion

Interesting point.

I have a bit of a different take on it but appreciate your question and point enormously.

1. AGGRESSION, imho, is an evil side of a mostly neutral dynamic. . . . with this caveat . . . I'm not talking about force in behalf of what is truly good and admirable--protecting family etc.

2. Levels of testosterone have correlated with levels of aggression.

3. MATURE, balanced, well-adjusted, non-serious attachment disordered BLOKES can be fully masculine and fully in control of their urges to express forceful feelings and dynamics in destructive ways physically.

4. CHANNELING forceful urges into PRODUCTIVE options is part of maturity AND MASCULINITY. Digging a ditch when angry seems to go faster. LOL. Building a labor intensive shed or garden or truck when energized can go faster. One may have to be careful about pounding one's thumb a bit more often, however.

5. 95% of the prisoners in the USA have serious levels of ATTACHMENT DISORDER. The violence comes PRIMARILY from, imho, significant levels of testosterone PLUS a horrific LACK OF BONDED, EMOTIONAL, HEALTHY AFFECTION ATTACHMENT TO A MORE OR LESS HEALTHY DAD. I think the prison population proves that. The violence among the beleaguered poor and in marriages proves that.

6. Such blokes do not have, have not had a father who's mature, loving AND MASCULINE teach them how to BE A MAN regardless of what life throws at them. They have not had a good model of that--grandfather, uncle, teacher, whomever.

7. It is MORE being a man to walk away from an unwise, unnecessary fight--just as it is to stand up and fight WHEN it is NECESSARY and FITTING.

8. The oligarchy has done a good job of shredding masculinity on the one hand and derisively cartooning it on the other--into a hyper-fantasy set of memes that are farcical and psychologically and culturally manipulative toward dead end chaos and deadly results. All the super violent 'super-heroes' are doing what in our culture? What is their purpose? Who benefits from such themes and indoctrination, conditioning? Do they not heighten the urge to strike out--regardless of how futile it is to do so?

9. Perhaps one of the purposes of (A) on the one hand neutering men with the least bit of testosterone and cajones and (B) on the other hand pressing them on all sides with themes, memes, dynamics to leave them feeling helpless, AND ANGRY, emasculated AND furious, impotent AND violent . . . is to set the culture up for a thoroughly chaotic bloodletting civil war where the population is greatly reduced AND much easier to bulldoze into mass graves and FEMA camps so the NWO can more easily and quickly be established--WITHOUT all those troublesome testosterone filled heroes messing up the plan.

10. People who are trapped and have or feel that they have no way out can be counted on to be most irrationally violent. It seems like the oligarchy has set up millions of disaffected young men to be in just such situations and to feel & act exactly like that. So, what is the oligarchy's purpose in doing that. I think 9. above is one of the best guesses.

11. I do NOT think the answer is to encourage violent prone men to slug it out more often. I think it's FAR better to teach them wisdom, restraint, re-channeling such feelings more productively; discernment between a necessary and fitting fight and a useless arrogant one.

12. PRIDE is one of the most deadly problems any of us face. I'm NOT talking about self-respect etc. I'm talking about Attachment Disorder fostered insecurity --> fostered Pride, arrogance. Most needless fights, if not all of them, have to do with that kind of banty rooster ego strutting pissing contest.

13. It's overdue to teach youth how to behave in an admirable way--REGARDLESS of the circumstances--increasing their self-respect AND INCREASING THEIR TRULY MASCULINE CAPACITY AND TENDENCY--to STAND UP AND BE COUNTED IN WAYS THAT LASTINGLY COUNT.

14. It's overdue that we teach young men HOW to express their emotions in Effective AND Constructive ways regardless of the issues and the situation--and regardless of how immature the other jerks in the situation are being and acting.

15. YES, there are times to stand up and physically fight for all one's worth. Those times are not near as often as the disadvantaged and attachment disordered youth feel the urge to act out in. I don't support encouraging needless person to person violence in behalf of mangled insecure egos, huge chips on their shoulders etc. That's NOT fitting nor healthy masculinity. That's stupidity.

16. Yes, the dumbing down, neutering, sidelining, mangling, insulting, demeaning, feminizing etc. of the male of the species has been going on increasingly for decades. That's horrific to terrible ends. That's a huge 'nother issue. It needs to stop. It won't be stopped. The oligarchy doesn't want real masculine men getting in its way. Thankfully, they won't be in power near as long as they think they will. And, along the way, they will discover that there are still some truly masculine men left who may say with Sampson--where's that jaw bone of an ass, I'm ready to kill some philistines.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

You brought up more issues I left out thanks and good points.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

So who's to blame?

a reply to: onequestion

I kind of agree with you about losing the sort of stand up, straight talking culture.

You need to remember though, that it wasn't ever a universal thing, there have always been the sort of people who would never adhere to that kind of code, I think modern society is kind of geared towards the mentality that lets the state sort out conflicts.

You want to buy a motorcycle and go to a few rallies, no bs in those circles.

a reply to: BO XIAN

First off let me thank you for such a thought out response.

My point with fighting is to start the dialogue and I'm not convinced its truly the answer but as a KID it was part of growing up in my neighborhood and I have lifelong friendships from the sort of tribal nature of our neighborhoods which is both good and had in certain ways.

Your right obviously as a mature adult there are better ways to deal with things in speaking most specifically yo our youth and the PROCESS by which they choose to mature.

I didn't articulate that very sell.

I totally agree with you that it is social engineering as part of a cosmically bigger plan.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I would think that as we go backwards In time that ideology was more prevelant especially during more tribal periods.

I think having an open dialogue on subjects like this is culturally important rather than a "let daddy tell us what to do" mentality which is ruining our society and everyone is sumber because of it.

a reply to: onequestion

Thanks for your kind reply.

Good points.

I do think it is fitting and wise to teach youth how to physically defend themselves.

And, wrestling matches, boxing matches may have their place--though the latter can too easily end up with concussions that plague the individual the rest of their lives, needlessly.

Certainly healthy tribal groupings and jocking for low intensity 'king of the mountain' sorts of positions can yield very educational experiences in an ongoing way.

Given that it's no longer PC to play 'cowboys and Indians' . . . what do kids play nowadays? 'Jihadi's' and 'black ops?' Zombies and everyone else? 'Rich drug lord' vs 'crazed-needing-a-fix-customers?' What? It seems to me that most of the healthiness to such gamey rivalries of my youth's era . . . most of that healthiness has been drained off, squashed, shatterd and blown to the 4 winds.

Good thread well managed. Thanks.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Good question... What do kids do these days since everything I uses to do growing up is now off limits?

I fear for our future.

You are thinking about the problem, and that is a plus. The question is: can your thesis survive a confrontation with the opposite point-of-view?



Tough Guise is a documentary about toxic masculinity, as enforced by old school fathers, older boys on the playground, movies, TV shows, video games, and yes -- American blood sport fighting.

Personally, I think Katz misses the big picture, but so do you. The truth is likely somewhere between these extremes. Either way, there can be no doubt. Almost all violent crime is perpetrated by males. Violence is a male problem. Whether more sparing and sport is the answer, I can't say for certain. I'm not a sociologist, after all. But I have never shied away from the examination of as many points-of-view as possible, and neither should any of you.

a reply to: onequestion

"The first rule about Fight Club, is you do not talk about Fight Club."

I agree with the premise, though I believe there are better ways to unleash aggression besides onto another person in a verbal or physical altercation. Those happen, but they don't need to. Sports, challenging physical tasks, disassembling an old gas grill without tools (just did this, for fun, I have tools lol.) Killing 10,000 imaginary zombies with a PS4 controller isn't the same, there's no physical exertion (or very little) linked to the emotional response.

Masculinity has been targeted by the regressive left and feminists as a cause of their mythical "patriarchy" and thus must be erased from society. A lot of what you're seeing is far left social engineering. We're being changed, whether we like it or not.

a reply to: onequestion

Machismo for the sake of it is sometimes dangerous and usually silly. It is monkey-brain chest thumping that often escalates into pointless violence. Having said that, the capacity for violence that men have isn't necessarily a bad thing, if it is channeled into something productive for society. Even war, which is the worst-case-scenario for that can be good for society. I think that modern, western culture doesn't understand how to channel that aggression so it simply tries to repress it, which is just as stupid and probably more dangerous in the end. In that repression, we are generationally losing mentors for young men; older men who understand, can teach and if necessary curb the aggressive tendencies in younger, less experienced men.

I also think that men are struggling to come up with a sense of identity that includes masculinity. Society demonized masculinity as a whole, not just the parts of it that were dangerous and socially detrimental. All of it. We sort of threw out the baby with the bath water and never provided any workable alternative. Now we have young men who simply repress and are ashamed of much of themselves instead of learning to cope with the negative and capitalizing on their strengths. They have no idea who they are, they are afraid to succeed lest it be perceived as too dominant, and much of the system is transforming to, if not exactly completely exclude men, at least limit their participation (such as our higher educational system).

So what we are left with is a generation of young men who have few prospects to be productive members of society, no idea how to channel all that testosterone into something worthwhile, and even if they did, society would still largely (and unfairly) reject it. This is not good. I think that we are headed for a pendulum shift. Welcome to the new patriarchy, and it will be far more brutal, especially for women, than the old one.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

We could easily solve that problem with boxing class instead of gym class.

The military uses boxing as a tppl for creating leaders why wouldn't we do that in sxhool ?

a reply to: TheBulk

Masculinity has been targeted by the regressive left and feminists.

What a surprise for ats. The left taking the wrap again. Not very masculine blaming lefties and girls. Take some of that personal responsibility the conservatives are always preaching about

There's no such thing as the emasculation of the modern male. If a man feels emasculated rather than assume there's some vast conspiracy out to rob him of his jewels maybe he should ask where he tucked them away.

You want to fist fight? Cool arrange a place where you can do that... the rest of society doesn't want to deal with your infantile behavior or get hurt because of it.

You feel frowned on for being a man? Every person out in public is being judged. Suck it up. Act however you want but realize society has changed and is under no obligation to remain stuck where some people are stuck and just might look at you like you have a booger hanging from your nose. No one can force you to comply with society, you CHOOSE to. At every turn YOU HAVE A CHOICE.

Quit whining already, quit blaming feminism, quit blaming society... you're free men, put up or shut up.

a reply to: Kali74

I totally disagree there has been a societal shift away from the masculine archetype as society has evolved to understand it.

Look no further than Hercules, Apollo, and the many many mythical hero charachters that young men used to admire.

Its built into our DNA.

a reply to: onequestion

So what you're really saying is that men aren't man enough to share the stage?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: SprocketUK

I would think that as we go backwards In time that ideology was more prevelant especially during more tribal periods.

I think having an open dialogue on subjects like this is culturally important rather than a "let daddy tell us what to do" mentality which is ruining our society and everyone is sumber because of it.

True, to a degree.
I read a book years ago by one of the editors of Easyriders magazine. He made the point that most people are scared of losing their stuff. All the things they collect to try and dull the pain of their cra99y existence.

He stated that true freedom was a result of letting go of all that and always doing the right thing for you, whether that's not shying away from violence or whatever.

a reply to: onequestion

Are you asking me? I don't have a problem with boxing class. The ring is a terrific place to utilize that energy.

What I -- and most other grown people -- take issue with is the moronic notion that boys should always act tough, and be sexually aggressive, or they are labeled "weak," "gay," or "feminine" bu other boys (and grown men) who have appointed themselves arbitrators of masculinity.

There is a greatness in defending the weak, even if it comes to violence. There is zero greatness in maintaining a tough pose in our relationships with the weak, children or women (through the serialization of male violence).

a reply to: onequestion

i THINK you left out a "." after disagree. LOL.

I agree . . . the reality in our culture . . . the social constructs and definitions even, have been wholesale changed.

I think the poster you were replying to is missing sufficient understanding and appreciation for major chunks and factors resulting in the hideousness we see.