This may be the guitar that ends the debate about "tone wood" once and for all.

As a long-time guitarist and fan of both Hendrix and Stratocasters in general, I am blown away by this experimental project.

If you play, I'm sure you've been involved in the "tone wood" debate at least once. Most of us have our favorite and believe we are justified in singing the praises of our particular choices. My 1979 Carvin DC150CM had a tone and sustain that made it my favorite for life. (stole out of storage, sadly)

It took me 35 years to finish it, but I built a Strat that's body is from a block of solid ash that was meant originally to be part of one of the trestle tables my company built. (I was a foreman there) When I saw the guy that ran the shaper on the way to the hog (wood chipper for bad parts) I waylaid him and put it in the office to take home. The full guitar weighs just a shade more than a Gibson Les Paul Custom and it sure seems to me that the guitar has a brighter tone than any other guitar I've owned.

These guys go a long way toward finally convincing me that it is all relative and that the pickups and hardware define the sound far more than the wood used for the body, neck or fretboard:

a reply to: CornShucker

I doubt that the cardboard guitar there, which is damned impressive by the way, is going to stand up to the same sort of punishment that a guitar constructed of wood will, over a long period of time.

It may be gorgeous, innovative, and a feat of technical genius, but if you stood in front of me and told me that when I am eighty five, someone will still be playing that very guitar, I would have to say you had lost your mind!

It also looks like it would be a mother of twelve bastards to clean.

Yes, of course, tone has to do with the pickups, amplification, the strings, and the player more than anything else. Hell, I have met fellows that can make a plastic kids guitar sing. But maintaining that performance over long periods, creating musical instruments that will outlast their owners, that is something that I believe will always require the use of a good, sturdy, resonant wood.

a reply to: CornShucker

Very cool guitar, I did laugh in the beginning when he said "wood works well for guitars, but paper?"

Me thinks he doesn't know what paper is made from

a reply to: CornShucker

These guys go a long way toward finally convincing me that it is all relative and that the pickups and hardware define the sound far more than the wood used for the body, neck or fretboard:

Shoutout to the bridge, bridge pins and strings, too.

Bridge pins…

On the other hand, acoustic guitars play far different depending on the wood they are constructed from. Like Stradivarius (where the term "Strat" comes from) in Fender Stratocaster, correct me if I'm wrong on that.

a reply to: intrptr
I was led to believe that 'Stratocaster' was nothing more than a mixture of the existing 'teleCASTER' name with the futuristic 'STRATosphere' (higher/faster etc... eg stratofortress, stratocruiser etc), and that there was no copyright violations related to it.

Looking at the video, and how the 'cardboard' machines, it looks like a kind of polymer or epoxy impregnated fibreboard rather than just box grade cardboard. Closer in strength properties to carbon fibre.

Stuff cardboard... I want wood... Carbon fibre,...Or graphite.!!

originally posted by: intrptr

Shoutout to the bridge, bridge pins and strings, too.

Bridge pins…
On the other hand, acoustic guitars play far different depending on the wood they are constructed from.

Yes, bridge pins may well work with acoustic pieces, but the bridge itself is the most important for both tonal qualities and sustain. Gibson solid body styles like Les Paul and the Strat use a Spanish type bridge, with the difference being in the Gibson in effect has a secondary bridge close the stringing separation bridge. The Italian bridge is closer to what Gretsch have used over the years where the stringing over the bridge extends more further back. My preference would be the Spanish style bridge for a clean lingering sound, with the right set of strings for what you want. Technologically, there is heaps of stuff that can compensate for anything you may consider a shortcoming with your preferred instrument.
I will add some players will also change the nut at the neck to something metallic.

I have never been able to embed content on this site, but I recently watched a couple of YouTube videos regarding guitars made of cast concrete. Yes, electric. But the creators of the two guitars (one because he noticed his waste pile looked like a guitar, and got inspired, the other because he saw the first one and attempted to refine the idea) were both impressed by the clarity of tone and the length of the sustain. I'd imagine the density and rigidity of the concrete have a good bit to do with the sustain.
Just thought I wouldmention these, in case you folks hadn't heard of them.

a reply to: CornShucker

Looks and sounds truly awesome. As a 50-year player, I think I would miss the weight. I mean, the very density of a guitar is part of what makes it as a playable instrument -- the way you turn it and feel the notes and chords as that synchronizes with how you move your body. Maybe it doesn't matter, this old-school thang I have in mind.

I'm interested in seeing how such an innovation could happen with an acoustical guitar. That's a place where wood and construction and intonation really matter.

Very cool thread!

originally posted by: pfishy
I have never been able to embed content on this site, but I recently watched a couple of YouTube videos regarding guitars made of cast concrete. Yes, electric. But the creators of the two guitars (one because he noticed his waste pile looked like a guitar, and got inspired, the other because he saw the first one and attempted to refine the idea) were both impressed by the clarity of tone and the length of the sustain. I'd imagine the density and rigidity of the concrete have a good bit to do with the sustain.
Just thought I wouldmention these, in case you folks hadn't heard of them.

That's curious, I know that the mechanics of concrete pour in a building need to be of good quality and not honeycombed..aka a high standard of solidity, and not porous, something I considered about the 9/11 towers colllapse, but hard to find the info I wanted. Anyway, consider the concrete prone to weakness if porous, and by default vunerable to various effects, one being vibration.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Both good points that I admit I hadn't thought of.

I very rarely break anything. It's not so much a matter of placing too much importance in material things as it is my hard-headed farm upbringing. "Use it up. Wear it out. Make it last or do without."

That's not to say there haven't been plenty of bandmates willing to do the job for me. My Carvin amp cabinet has six 10" speakers and I'd had it eight years with no tears in the cover. I let a guy borrow it one night and got it back with all four corners on the top torn...

I'd probably get the cardboard Strat back with nacho cheese down in the body!

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: CornShucker

Looks and sounds truly awesome. As a 50-year player, I think I would miss the weight. I mean, the very density of a guitar is part of what makes it as a playable instrument -- the way you turn it and feel the notes and chords as that synchronizes with how you move your body. Maybe it doesn't matter, this old-school thang I have in mind.

I'm interested in seeing how such an innovation could happen with an acoustical guitar. That's a place where wood and construction and intonation really matter.

Very cool thread!

Some sympathy with that, but as a bass player for 30 years, and as a lead player for more than the subsequent amount of time, and using a Fender Precision bass, and currently an old Strat guitar, they are pretty heavy instruments.
Opposed to that, McCartney used the Hofner Cello bass, maybe still does, and when I had my Fender bass stolen used a Hofner until I got a new Precision, and I thought that particular Hofner bass a piece of rubbish, as I did the small neck Gibson bass, which was solid but light. All those instruments were user friendly in a recording studio though..as long as they were tuneful. Build quality back 50 years was always an issue though, that includes Fender.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: CornShucker

Very cool guitar, I did laugh in the beginning when he said "wood works well for guitars, but paper?"

Me thinks he doesn't know what paper is made from

I've been trying to remember the wording for a saying... He slipped that by me, I must be slowing down in my old age.

Situations like that are fun when the other pauses for a bit and then says, "I understand what you said, I'm just trying to figure if you really meant what I just heard."

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah, I'd really be surprised if they had as much luck with an acoustic. It doesn't take much of a hard knock in the wrong spot(s) to ruin the tone on a good wooden acoustic.

Hadn't really thought of trying that with an acoustic, but the bridge pins are a good point. If the thing was going to be a "one off" then changing strings wouldn't be an issue. If it was intended to be in service for very long I can see where that could be an issue. I was curious about how they got such good action on that neck since I can't really imagine a truss rod behaving as usual in that neck. There would be some adjustment as far as height because of the bridge but it sure played with a clean sound. I've put off truss rod adjustment until I absolutely had to wade in. Doesn't take much to make it worse instead of better.

Over the years I've heard several stories, but I honestly don't know the true inspiration for the name.

originally posted by: pfishy
I have never been able to embed content on this site, but I recently watched a couple of YouTube videos regarding guitars made of cast concrete. Yes, electric. But the creators of the two guitars (one because he noticed his waste pile looked like a guitar, and got inspired, the other because he saw the first one and attempted to refine the idea) were both impressed by the clarity of tone and the length of the sustain. I'd imagine the density and rigidity of the concrete have a good bit to do with the sustain.
Just thought I wouldmention these, in case you folks hadn't heard of them.

I'll look around for them. Since my spine has just continued to get worse, I can only play my new guitar standing up for a couple of songs at the most. Then I have to set down.

Those guys might sound a little crazy, but, if memory serves, the documentary I watched shortly after Les Paul passed away said that his first prototype electric guitar to go with his pickup was a piece of railway iron. That might have worked great for an Hawaiian lap steel, but I sure couldn't hang one from this worn out old neck and shoulder.

I played these for years, both bass and 6stg. loved em...indestructible, stayed in tune and just fun for cutting up on stage with a wireless rig. But the composit did sound cold but when run thru a tube screamer, big Muff and a Blues Jr. they rocked.





But my current favorite is an old plywood Korean Kay; not sure why, it just feels right.

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: CornShucker

Looks and sounds truly awesome. As a 50-year player, I think I would miss the weight. I mean, the very density of a guitar is part of what makes it as a playable instrument -- the way you turn it and feel the notes and chords as that synchronizes with how you move your body. Maybe it doesn't matter, this old-school thang I have in mind.

I'm interested in seeing how such an innovation could happen with an acoustical guitar. That's a place where wood and construction and intonation really matter.

Very cool thread!

Agreed! One of the first things I noticed was that there were no buttons or strap. Balance makes all the difference in the world. When I bought my Carvin DC150CM back in '79 I made the mistake of unpacking it and taking it to gig that night without bring a backup just in case. That strap button in the middle of the base of the neck taught me a valuable lesson. The whole guitar wanted to lean away from me like that! The next day I moved it up the top body cutaway.



Here's a better look, just left-handed:


Here's my new project. Haven't named her yet, we're still getting to know each other.



I've always figured that women were very like fine guitars. When you are young and starting out, you don't have much of a clue what you want or especially what you need. But with time and experience you eventually find one you want to take home and keep forever.

Of course that doesn't mean that there won't still be times you walk into a music store and see something on the wall you find yourself wishing you could play once or twice...

originally posted by: olaru12
I played these for years, both bass and 6stg. loved em...indestructible, stayed in tune and just fun for cutting up on stage with a wireless rig. But the composit did sound cold but when run thru a tube screamer, big Muff and a Blues Jr. they rocked.





But my current favorite is an old plywood Korean Kay; not sure why, it just feels right.

I've never heard the guy's name, but during one of David Bowie's incarnations he had a lead guitarist that played the living daylights out of one of these. He really blew me away. I would have never have guessed you could wring those kind of sounds out of such a small guitar with a graphite neck. I think the Steinbergers(sp?) had a graphite neck, didn't they? The lead guitarist looked a lot like the older actor that played Grandpa in the Beatle's "A Hard Day's Night"...

a reply to: CornShucker

Agree. Balance and the weight itself. That's not to say that a person couldn't change their entire style to accomodate a different weight. It's also about how your curl or shape yourself to the guitar. When you're whaling away and swing it around or up and down, the feel of it.

I've adapted before, and I'm sure I could do so again, but I can't help feeling that a cardboard guitar would be akin to my disappointment at trying to "slam" a cell phone down. Just ain't right.

Your new girl is beautiful. Yes, they are like women and should be treated so, even if the performer is female. I know that when I'm focused and intent on playing my Martin mahogany dreadnaught, I curl around it like a lover.

Tonewood is more relevant to acoustic guitars, I think.

My sympathies, though, on your slightly-heavier-than-a-Les Paul Strat. You’re going to have back problems in the future if you play that standing up.

Reverend Manta Ray. Black Korina, neck through body, semi hollow with flame maple top.
This baby sings.