Are the Transgendered in the Bathrooms really the issue?

So many forums I could probably place this in, but since it seems to be so controversial, I am just putting it here. I'm sure many here will appreciate it, and yes, I'm pretty sure some feathers are probably going to get ruffled. Hopefully the ruffled folks don't lose their minds...

I will say this though and why I think I have every right to post something like this besides the obvious...
I am a 57 year old gay woman. Been gay all my life. Owned a womens bar and contributed much to the community with fund raisers and such. I have helped turn a once very homophobic community to now one of the most popular places for Gays to move in South Florida. I accomplished this by opening my doors to all. One simple rule. Good people stay, jerks leave, or as long as you play well with others, you are welcome to stay. I am proud of this.

The thing is, I am 5'10". I use the ladies room and yes I can be considered butch. I would have to say going to the restroom in public has been basically a chore for the most part. 8 out of 10 times it gets pointed out to me that I'm in the ladies room. Older women glance nervously at the door to make sure they are in the right restroom. I am gentle with them. Some women are pretty obnoxious about it, their tone insinuating that I must be illiterate to not be able to read the door. Some just plain rude. I have learned to handle the situations in a number of ways, each according to how I'm addressed basically. I have even had management come in to check me out. I can honestly say though, I have never attacked, groped, or done anything to another woman in a public bathroom except maybe to hand them a towel.

So really, I have been having a problem for years and I was where I was suppose to be. This is a picture of me, just so you understand what people are seeing when they have concerns about me. I realize I don't have to post this, but we all know how some members can get, and I have nothing to hide.


This video below is starting to go virile, so it may end up here eventually anyway. I just hope we can have a nice discussion without too much madness ensuing. To think it could be quite possible another member from this forum may have been one to give me the "eye," not even realizing I may be a member they have enjoyed reading. Its a stretch I know, but I only say it for the point. We have a lot of gay members here. Do we really wish these added problems to their days?



LINK TO VIDEO

a reply to: onehuman

Oh my Gosh!!!

I had no idea you were 5'10!!!
LOL Just kidding, friend!

Good post!



My SIL gets looks (well used to more than now) for going in the women's room. She has become a little more 'feminine' looking as she has aged.
She's still what one would consider 'butch' but, she went in the ladies room because she had female anatomy. I think. Perhaps I'll ask her later.

a reply to: onehuman

I can understand a man who has completely transformed into a woman (surgically) using the women's bathroom, but I can't comprehend how anyone supports a man who pretends to be a woman because they are more feminine than masculine and yet still has man parts should use a woman's bathroom. I just can't understand that one. It's disturbing to me. Sorry, just my opinion on the matter.

a reply to: onehuman

I personally don't link the Gay issue to Transgender. Transgender is a totally different issue and has nothing to do with sexual attraction. Also, what consenting adults want to do each other in the privacy of their own home doesn't affect me nor concern me.

On the other hand people with the wrong equipment using the same bathroom as my wife and daughter DOES affect me. I don't care if my family shares a bathroom with a gay person, but I do have a problem with my wife having to share a bathroom with someone that pees standing up.

If I were gays I wouldn't want to be attached to this issue as it simply makes an already confusing issue (at least to normal folks) more confusing. I don't think that just because someone dresses up as a man or women it means they are gay. Am I wrong about this?

a reply to: Rezlooper

This is my opinion as well.

If you have cut off your junk then use the women's room. If you have a penis then use the men's room. That just seems a logical and pragmatic solution.

I'm not sure about in the United States but here in the UK all establishments have a disabled toilet which is a private room.. Why don't they use that?

Not saying they are disabled but it solves the argument..

Where in the world did transgender people use the bathroom before this became a national debate?

a reply to: onehuman

Here's my take on the whole thing (with a disclaimer bias that I work in one of the larger cities and that may be skewing my view a little).


My concern with these new laws that are coming out bothers me a little bit. It's not that I think trans-people shouldn't use whatever facilities they are comfortable with. It's more that I believe the laws are basically taking a tough situation and simply making it a heck of a lot worse.


Like I said I work in a very big city and in doing so, I see just about everything. When it comes to this topic, from what I have seen is that there is almost an unspoken agreement or acknowledgement that women (including those of the trans-variety) use the women's room and me (including the trans-variety) use the men's room. Just my observations over the years but a lot of us have seen (to use a cliché) a nicely dressed "woman" with an Adam's apple use the ladies room... and nobody really cares. Everyone basically just "gets it" and realizes that its far more likely this person is living as a woman to a large extent then it is likely that "he" is going in there to cause any kind of trouble.


Because, to me, it seems that overall there wasn't too much of an issue, I find the law causing more harm than good.

Here's the thing, it is impossible to read someone's mind and this is what concerns me. The language in these laws seem to always point to (paraphrase) "the gender that the person IDENTIFIES with." Where in the past a dude that is clearly a dude would get thrown out of a women's room (with good reason), now all anyone has to do is just say, "Hey, I IDENTIFY as a female and you can't do a damn thing." And that person would be right because how do you prove that?

In what I'll call "the old way" there was some issues here and there but by and large it sort of worked (at least where I live). The law is just going to make things worse, in my opinion.

First, thanks so much for your thoughtful, open and frank thread. Your anecdotal information has a lot of value as it pertains to your thread. ..... and I agree with you. As the delightfully entertaining Trae Crowder said in the video, transgendered folk have been there all throughout human history.

Trae Crowder was a genuine surprise. Love his speech patterns and his fire and humor.

I don't have a problem with who is in the public bathrooms with me. I go there for specific functions which don't include socializing. Okay, infrequent banter while standing shoulder-to-shoulder at the urinal trough. TMI. Not that it matters.... I'm a herto man. Should I quiver with fear and inner recrimination if I choose to use the bathroom in a gay bar? Should I metaphorically flog myself for being in the gay bar in the first place? NO! I'm there because I'm having fun with friends and really couldn't care any less who is doing what in the stall next to me as long as they're not overtly noisy.

Does my Darlin' have a problem in women's loo? Why would she?

I don't understand the issue, but I guess it's mostly about fear. Fear of what some of us choose to not understand. Maybe fear of ourselves, sometimes.

We don't have children, so there is a variable that doesn't resonate with me, however I don't see how that would change things -- parents should be protective of their children. Bathrooms might be potentially frightful for kids, but that has to do with the way the world has changed (predators and such) but not in any way -- in my opinion -- related to the sexuality or gender identify of people.

I hope everyone watches the video. It was an insightful and pleasant surprise.

Sorry for the novella. In 1976 I walked into a bar called the Palms. To take a leak. I later became somewhat of a mascot. Fun people went there. I like fun people.

For most of my life I have looked like an NFL lineman that retired to be a biker. Women typically have never felt comfortable being alone with me, especially in situations that might be considered vulnerable. its not uncommon that i am made to feel like a creep or a pervert for just existing in the same general vicinity with someone. People are scared of me in real life. At least, until they get to know me a little. People who know me trust me with anything, including their money.

We judge books by covers. Its part of the way humans think (we are relational thinkers, which tends to make us both risk averse and somewhat manipulative. But its kept us alive for a long time.

RE: lgbt, its like chickens. You ever see that chicken thats a little different get chased around and pecked by all the other chickens? same thing, different animal.

a reply to: onehuman

OK, now imagine if you used the men's room, not so much restroom but locker room. No matter how butch you look, it all comes undone when you are naked.

And as much as you can say you are not conventionally attractive to a man, we also know that rape as an act is not about who is attractive as much as it's about power. A woman in the men's room, locker room and shower is in danger of being raped no matter what she looks like as a power act.

I am the mother of a boy. I would not want a physical female in the same locker room with him someday because I know how teenage boys can be and I don't want something to happen. I don't want anyone playing with his future that way over ideas of "fairness" to someone who feels he was put in the wrong body. It is unfair to all the boys in there and dangerous to all of them.

Another angle to consider is the comfort of women who have been raped or victimized in the past. You say yourself that women are already uncomfortable and you happen to be a woman. Like it or not, and you know this from your own experience, we are very vulnerable when we are toileting in any way (whether it's the potty or showering in a locker room) and for a woman who has previously been violated in some way by a man to see what looks like a man coming in and/or sharing the same facility is tough.

I had a roommate who was raped in college, and she wouldn't even let my dad in our dorm room!

a reply to: eluryh22

One of my problems is very simple really, simple numbers.

There are less than 90,000 trans people in this nation of 300,000,000 people.

Why should the 300,000,000 have to make special accommodations for so few people?

If every business had to build a special trans bathroom, it would effect more businesses than there are trans people.

This is not including the obvious fact that there are a lot of messed up people that would love it if men could enter women's bathrooms locker rooms and showers without reprisals.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Rezlooper

This is my opinion as well.

If you have cut off your junk then use the women's room. If you have a penis then use the men's room. That just seems a logical and pragmatic solution.

Not if you are transitioning from male to female, wearing a dress, and have not yet had "the downstairs remodeled".

You do know that there are no urinals in the typical women's restroom, right ? Ask any woman.

They only have stalls with toilets, and usually, I assume, doors on those stalls.

So how in the "bleeping" world would your precious women-folk ever know that they are sharing space with a transgendered person?

Unless you ladies make it a point to peer over or under every stall wall they encounter?

In which case, they have a bigger worry than what they might see!

On the flip side, if a person is in transition from female to male, it is highly unlikely that they will be sidleding up to a urinal in the gents unless they have already had the surgical enhancements needed to "stand and deliver".

I know many a "pee-shy" male unable to comfortably use the "community trough", who scurry off to the privacy of a stall to do their rain dance, regardless of their natural equipment.

If the bathroom thing isnt supposed to matter then why does it matter so much to transgender people. Your just using the bathroom, use the facility best suited for the junk your carrying, why are YOU making it a big deal?? Since when did we start disaplacing the 99.9% for the internet soapbox culture?

a reply to: Bhadhidar

You are dodging the point that what goes in bathrooms also goes in the locker rooms.

Here's what I don't understand. I wouldn't guess that biological males who identify as female would stand to pee.

Is it that this is all a genuine problem, or is it that the knowledge of it has caught some folks unaware and unsure of what they "should" think about it? Is it really any of our collective business?

a reply to: argentus

All right. If the knowledge is the problem, then did society need to know? Was there maybe some wisdom to a general policy of don't ask, don't tell?

a reply to: ketsuko

perhaps that part of it. I can also see where business owners would object profoundly to legislation requiring them to install new bathrooms. I think such a thing would be entirely unnecessary and probably financially prohibitive to businesses, governments, etc.

I'm hoping that once the new wears off, everyone can just go back to going to the bathroom, do their business and not be overly interested in the equipment of those in the next stall.

a reply to: onehuman

How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn't make it a leg.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Bhadhidar

You are dodging the point that what goes in bathrooms also goes in the locker rooms.

And what, pray tell, do you suppose would be going on in locker rooms?

Maybe the fault lies not in the transgendered, but in the beholders of the transgendered.

Geez people, grow up!

A naked body is just a naked body.

People need to, as someone more eloquently insightful put it, learn the difference between

Naked,

And Nekkid!

If you're in a locker room and you're Nekkid, there had better be lights and cameras, or there's gonna be police and trounchons!