God Did It! The rest is post modern chatter!

a reply to: edmc^2

Even though many in the scientific field are atheist, they can't deny the evidence that the universe and the earth had a "beginning".

You might have added, "in my opinion."

I've never thought there was much of a conflict between Scripture and science. Both use different language to describe similar phenomena.

In the beginning, according to Scripture, God creates the heavens and the Earth, and separates them into day and night. How long, do you suppose, is a "God-day" prior to the creation of the Earth? Could it be several years, as measured on Earth? Could it be a thousand, or a million, or 14 billion? We don't know.

This is the essence of faith. Faith is strength and belief in Scripture (or whatever a person's religious/cultural documents are). Science seeks to use measurable variables and compiled evidence to fill in the blanks of the creation. I don't recall EVER reading a scientist/astrophysicist claiming that the Big Bang negated the existence of a Godhead.

One cannot be used to negate the other. They are different, but equally valid for those who believe them. Only one of them can be measured and supported with evidence. The other only requires faith. They are not mutually exclusive.

For me, any doctrine that attempts to characterize the Earth as being less than 10,000 Earth-years old is severely flawed. That is my studied opinion.

The Big Bang only represents the furthest point we can attribute to our existence. To think that this was the beginning of what we are really all about I think, is ludicrous. We have so much evidence of the timeless nature of reality, that it is probably just the latest iteration of our collective history.

To think in terms of eternity, with no beginning or end is a task that will most likely always elude us, but is perhaps the nature of everything. The word is infinity, and all of our mathematical limits wind up here because there is no way to reach zero, and no way to reach the largest number.

a reply to: Klassified

Yes, I agree. Christian logic is an oxymoron.

originally posted by: edmc^2
Of course, since they don't believe in the existence of God, thus, they have to come up with some kind of explanation to explain away the obvious.

The obvious fact that God did it! The Creator through Jesus Christ created the "heavens and the earth".

Sorry, your creator God theory is not Obvious and you have zero evidence to support it.

Thus, God is not the "god of the gaps" as some ignorantly refer to Him. No but He is the God of the WHOLE show. There was never a gap. From beginning to end He was and will always be there.

God is most certainly a "god of the gaps" because you are inserting him where you don't have an answer for something. That is exactly what a "god of the gaps" means.

But what about those who say the Universe created itself and that it came from nothing? That there was no creator or God who created it? What about them?

First, if it came from a singularity then it didn't come from nothing.
Second, you have no explanation for where God came from so if he was just always there or self created himself then it's just as reasonable that the singularity was just always there or self created itself.

For where's the logic in saying, let alone believing that an absolute nothing can create something?

Where's the logic in believing that some God created everything???

It can't be done. Not on this universe nor any other so called multi-verse.

So now you claim to know what's possible in not only this universe but in all possible universes too???

An always existing something, better yet an Always Existing Someone - God can produce something.

God of the Gaps.

An ultimate source of Energy transforming it into the material universe.

You just described the Big Bang without having to use God. Energy Source=Singularity.

Yes. God Did It and the rest is just post modern chatter.

Not one shred of evidence to support anything about a God doing anything. Nothing but pre modern chatter.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: edmc^2

You know I've said this very thing in many of my posts here. But for some reason, some of the people who post here, especially creationists think we (scientists) are all atheists.

But to add to this, some of the greatest scientists in history were not Abrahamic. The Greeks had a great many of them.

All this means is that people of open mind, can do science. That god or as I prefer the GODS do not need to enter the equation. Those who insist Deity/Deities need to be part of it, hamper science. If one can not measure it, one should not consider it.

I will also note, you are ignoring the fact that I've provided information which disagrees with the need for creation. *Shrug*

Sure. Anyone with an open mind can do science. We have people of both persuasions who are well known as great men and women of science. The point is just because one is religious doesn't mean he or she can't do science.

Like what you said:

THUS keep religion out of science, and science out of religion.

Now as to the matter of the Origins of the universe - to me, God or a Creator is the most logical explanation to it.

That is, that someone who always existed must by necessity be the only source of matter and energy.

This does not hamper science but elevates it to higher level and purpose.

And it can't be an absolute nothingness since it's highly illogical.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

That just is not true...
This is the very belief of Lucifer who likened himself to be God...
God by definition is the creator of the Universe...
I am not the creator of the Universe...
Nor are you...
Lucifer was not either...
Guess that means none of us are God...
You need to get over whatever is making you feel less than you are for being female or the need you feel to lift them up...
After all God made women too...
Any expression of God's must bow down to its source as being greater than itself...

a reply to: mOjOm

Sorry, your creator God theory is not Obvious and you have zero evidence to support it.

OK - let's assume that God is not the obvious answer, who or what then is?

Since it's logical to conclude based on evidence that nothing can produce nothing, what evidence is there then that it will?

What's the alternative if not God?

a reply to: mOjOm

God is most certainly a "god of the gaps" because you are inserting him where you don't have an answer for something. That is exactly what a "god of the gaps" means.

Sure if we don't have a valid and logical answer. But again, let's say it wasn't God. Who or what then?

What other logical and valid answer that can rival or even surpassed what I said?

You're left with - nothing. Absolute nothing created everything. Now how valid and logical is that?

I'll leave you with this before I go further with the rest.

a reply to: edmc^2

That is proof of nothing. Anyone can look outside and say the earth hangs on "nothing"

If the bible said "God spins the earth in its orbit around the Sun and in accordance with the other planets" then you might have a case.

The whole earth could not be flooded as the bible states. Not could all the animals be taken on the Ark. Nor could they get along if they did. What would the lions and tigers and bears do?

In exodus it states that the first born in every Egyptian household was killed by God. The Egyptians would have had a record of this if it were true.

Samson killing 1,000 people by himself with a jawbine? I think not.

Your arhuement for the bible fails. Sorry.

a reply to: edmc^2

But the energy that creates it cannot be destroyed. All matter is is energy set to a certain frequency, matter is not separate from the energy that created it. Matter is not destroyed, it is only transformed into something "different".

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: vethumanbeing

That just is not true...
This is the very belief of Lucifer who likened himself to be God...
God by definition is the creator of the Universe...
I am not the creator of the Universe...
Nor are you...
Lucifer was not either...
Guess that means none of us are God...
You need to get over whatever is making you feel less than you are for being female or the need you feel to lift them up...
After all God made women too...
Any expression of God's must bow down to its source as being greater than itself...

What is not true 'no quotes' other than this post of yours. Lucifer was not God as claimed and (most importantly) not our progenitor. I have a hard time with your thinking that self-proclaimed Demi-Gods are the actual IT GOD. Primary, One, Origin.

originally posted by: edmc^2
OK - let's assume that God is not the obvious answer, who or what then is?

Nothing.

As in, It's not obvious. There is nothing obvious about the creation of the Universe, TimeSpace, Life, Consciousness, etc. It is about as far from obvious as you could possibly get.

Since it's logical to conclude based on evidence that nothing can produce nothing, what evidence is there then that it will?

What happens when you try to find nothing??? You can't because you'll always find something. Nothing can't be found. Because Nothing is the opposite of something and since there can't be state of nothing there must always be a state of something. So it's not that Nothing Produces Something so much as it just forces there to always be something.

Philosophically speaking anyway.

What's the alternative if not God?

The alternative to God is just No God.

I find it amusing when the Concept of the Limitless is reduced to such simplistic limitations.

is Eternity and the Eternal that much of a struggle to grasp?
I hope I never become that disenchanted and stuck in an endless loop.

Surely such speaks volumes.

I daresay it is foolish to think the Entire Mystery of the Eternal can be extinguished with a mere meme, a short paragraph, a casual dismissal. Do not the stars still shine in the Heavens? Does not the sun still warm the days? Do the flowers cease to bloom and birds become mute in the trees?

Yet the only driving force left is to yell scream and curse the Faithful.
Sounds like Hell to me.

Yet still, this is all very amusing....and slightly sad, in a way.

To be able to see the birth of a galaxy trillions of miles away, and not be able to marvel in Awe and Wonder.

The heart must be heavy, the mind must be defeated.
Beaten down.
Mute and sullen.
Angry and defiant.

Too have all these Natural Wonders manifest, yet still have eyes wide shut.
Blinded and consumed with outrage over mere semantics.

Just because I know it'll steam your broccoli until the End of Days I'm gonna say it:

"I'll pray for ya."

originally posted by: cuckooold
a reply to: Klassified

Yes, I agree. Christian logic is an oxymoron.

Thanks for letting us know the weakness of your argument. Time to go back to school.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

Pray as much as you want. There is no evidence of prayer being effective at all.

originally posted by: edmc^2
What other logical and valid answer that can rival or even surpassed what I said?

There is no logic in having God as your answer because you can't explain God. In fact explaining God and the complexity to try and explain God is way more difficult than it would be to explain the Universe. So if you can't explain the Universe you certainly can't explain God. You're just making up something more difficult as the answer to a problem you also can't solve.

That why everything used to be attributed to God like storms or drought or disease or the stars before we had answers for those things. When you can't answer something it's easy to just say it's magic or miracles or Gods. But that doesn't make it true.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: edmc^2
OK - let's assume that God is not the obvious answer, who or what then is?

Nothing.

As in, It's not obvious. There is nothing obvious about the creation of the Universe, TimeSpace, Life, Consciousness, etc. It is about as far from obvious as you could possibly get.

Since it's logical to conclude based on evidence that nothing can produce nothing, what evidence is there then that it will?

What happens when you try to find nothing??? You can't because you'll always find something. Nothing can't be found. Because Nothing is the opposite of something and since there can't be state of nothing there must always be a state of something. So it's not that Nothing Produces Something so much as it just forces there to always be something.

Philosophically speaking anyway.

What's the alternative if not God?

The alternative to God is just No God.

I read what you said several times and it still didn't make sense.

It's either Nothing or Something. Both can't occupy the same space.

Can you explain in another way what you just said?

a reply to: edmc^2

Lets suppose we all agree with you that "god" did it.

The question then is...which god, and how do you know for certain that's the god that "did it"?

And no, the bible is not proof. Of anything.

I'll ask again.^^^

a reply to: Joecanada11

St. Jude and I are thick as thieves.
No problem whatsoever.
It's my pleasure.

a reply to: argentus
Once again; great reasoning. Agree mind and heart.