Russia Uses Electronic Warfare on Swedish Air Traffic Control While US Tells Poland No to NATO

Russia is really pushing it...

It seems that Russia is has it's hands in all kinds of questionable activities. This time, once again... endangering the lives of the innocent.

Sources in the Swedish government have blamed Russian intelligence for causing a major cyberattack on Sweden's air traffic control system that lasted for at least five days in November 2015, allegedly due to Russia testing out its electronic warfare capabilities.

Between 4-9 November 2015, hundreds of domestic and international flights were grounded at multiple airports across Sweden due to its air traffic control system going offline. The attack caused the radar systems to stop working, which made the computer screens to go blank. This meant that air traffic controllers were unable to see any aircraft on their screens at all.

At the time, the Swedish Civil Aviation Administration publicly blamed a solar storm for knocking out air traffic control systems, which also impacted radar stations in Norway and Estonia. According to a Swedish military leaks news site, however, the real story was much deeper.

Anonymous sources told Aldrimer.no that during the attack, Swedish authorities traced the source of the attack to an Advanced Persistent Threat (APT) group that has previously been linked to the Russian military intelligence agency, Spetsnaz GRU.

Even though Sweeden isn't part of NATO, they decided to warn them... Just in case.

"The message was passed on to NATO either by Sweden's National Defence Radio Establishment [Försvarets radioanstalt, FRA] or the Swedish Military Intelligence and Security Service [Militära underrättelse- och säkerhetstjänsten, MUST]," a senior Nato source told Aldrimer.no.

Source

So Russia is working these nefarious activities, all the while, Poland is begging for NATO bases in fear of Russia doing to them what they did to Crimea. The good old US and Germany said... Hell no!

The US and Germany have unequivocally said that Nato will not build new bases in Poland, citing tactical and political reasons.

So what are those politican reasons? Oh yeah... we don't want to poke the bear. So we let the bear piss all over the world to mark it's territory and we do nothing because we apparently fear them? It kind of seems that way.

So we've gone from never negotiating with terrorist to negotiating with terrorist to let's just let the big bad guys of the world do whatever the hell they want.

But... it's because of our lightning fast Kung Foo Grip!

She said that Nato’s new rapid reaction force is enough to ensure that “Russia should not even think about trying” to destabilise Poland or one of the Baltic states.

So where is the outcry? Where are the government pushed embargos? Where are the threats of war?


Instead of standing up to Russia, we're telling Poland that we wont put a NATO base on their soil for political reasons.
US and Germany say No to Poland on Nato base




*Sigh*

why the hell would Russia want Poland?

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

they dont they are just practicing

a reply to: StallionDuck

Just because Poland isn't getting NATO bases doesn't mean they're being left alone. The US has had a more or less permanent presence there working with their military. They've been buying US equipment and we've been there teaching them how to get the most out of it.

a reply to: StallionDuck

I'd say the number of western military bases already around the world makes it almost essential, from a Russian point of view, to test these things and advance technologically.

Try viewing it neutrally. We've surrounded them with bases, planning missile shields, routine training missions in the Baltic, what are they supposed to do? Act like it isn't a threat? Don't prepare? We are the aggressors.

You honestly think other countries would, or even should, ever give up trying to secure nukes or stop trying to compete militarily after what our countries done to places like Libya?

A frayed knot.

a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

Training and testing is one thing. Testing on civilian air traffic control is dangerous and stupid, no matter who is doing it.

Oops.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Correct. I'm not justifying it, I'm just offering a different perspective.

Poland borders Belarus. Belarus once loyal Russian ally has been looking for a way to get away from Russia. Currently Russia has only 1,500 military personnel in Belarus. If NATO put bases in Poland Russia would do the same to Belarus without even asking. That would put Poland under direct Russian threat and remove any chance for Belarus to avoid supporting Russia as it has avoided doing so in Ukraine and Syria. NATO's best bet is to just rotate troops through on exercises not giving Russia the excuse to move in force into Belarus.

As for Sweden Russia is just pushing them and the Fins into NATO.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Dangerous and stupid?

Making radar screens go blank leaving air traffic controllers blind?

I wonder if this had resulted in a collision or crash what would be said about this?

It's been a very long episode of posturing on both sides.

Russia has seen NATO expanding into countries that were once loyal to her, also trade partners. She has perceived this expansion as a threat, which it is whatever way you want to dress it up, and when she takes measures to protect her economic and military interests, she is the big bad bear.

A few things...

No doubt Poland is hyping itself up a little here, perhaps exaggerating the threat to it for economic reasons? Lets not completely ignore national pride when it comes to these things. No one wants to be the country no one else would want to invade lol

Then again, there might be actual reasons for Russia to take action against Poland, it could be a testing of response for instance. We know Russia has been investing a lot of time and effort in testing various responses of various nations over the last year. Whether it's flying bombers over borders, sneaking subs into other nations territorial waters, or blatantly moving into another country and stealing a chunk of land... all of this has served to tell Russia what we might do in response to such.

NATO is right when it comes to Poland though. We have the resources to respond if we need to, there's no point in building new bases and moving things around if what we already have in position would be adequate for a response.

Besides, it's not the all-out attack we should be concerned about with regard to Russia, at least not right now. It's the creeping, conniving, insidious little moves it's making to try and destabilize former Soviet nations.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Poland has decided that they're going to do whatever it takes to prevent what happened in WWII from happening again. That's why they're buying as much modern Western equipment as they can, and learning how to use it properly.

There is hardly any sources or information on where this "leak" came from.
I cant find many articles on the reports from the initial solar storm that supposedly caused it in the beginning. But the one article i did find on it said the attack only lasted an hour and then systems were pretty much back online. Of course there was a lot to do afterwards to regain full capacity.
thewatchers.adorraeli.com...

It just seems fishy that they would do a 180 on the solar flare story and then blame Russia without any solid proof at all.

This seems like western paid for propaganda to implicate Russia as willing to attack even neutral countries civilian infrastructure.

"The source says that Swedish authorities were particularly concerned that Vattenfall, the Swedish state-owned power company, would be targeted by Russian hackers. As Vattenfall is one of the largest energy providers in Europe and owns several nuclear power plants in both Sweden and Germany, the potential damage from a cyberattack could have been astronomical." Yeh but they didnt target Vattenfall? so why bring it up? more fear mongering.

I dunno. This whole article seems sus to me.

And OP your calling of Russia as the "Bad guys" and calling American and its allies the good guys is hilarious. You should be a comedian. A miss guided comedian but a comedian none the less.

a reply to: 412304

The only solar activity around the 4th of November wouldn't have knocked out a mostly dead light bulb. There was a flare then, but almost all of the ejection fell back into the sun and never came anywhere near the earth.

www.spaceweather.com...

So what about...

"It is interesting to add that a long duration solar flare measuring M3.7 at its peak erupted from geoeffective Region 2443 at 13:52 UTC on November 4, 2015, which almost coincides with the the time when airport interruptions in Sweden were reported.

The flare event started at 13:31, ended at 14:13 UTC and caused an R1-Minor Radio Blackout Impact. Practically speaking, a Radio Blackout is the absence of a capability to communicate on High Frequency bands in the 5 to 35 MegaHertz spectral range, but lower frequency radio communications may also be significantly degraded during a Radio Blackout event."

That snippet is from this article - thewatchers.adorraeli.com...

Also initial reports from when they thought it was from a solar storm stated that planes went missing off the radar. There was no mention anywhere that traffic controller screens went black?

a reply to: 412304

And OP your calling of Russia as the "Bad guys" and calling American and its allies the good guys is hilarious. You should be a comedian. A miss guided comedian but a comedian none the less.

You might want to read that again. I didn't call anyone the "good guys". Using the term "bad guys" was... oh never mind... I don't need to explain how you twisted my words.

a reply to: 412304

A solar storm wouldn't have knocked out radar screens or transponders without knocking out other electronics. Aircraft dropping off a radar screen on the other hand is exactly what electronic warfare is supposed to do. So unless we got hit by a selective solar storm that only affected radar systems, it was something else.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: 412304

And OP your calling of Russia as the "Bad guys" and calling American and its allies the good guys is hilarious. You should be a comedian. A miss guided comedian but a comedian none the less.

You might want to read that again. I didn't call anyone the "good guys". Using the term "bad guys" was... oh never mind... I don't need to explain how you twisted my words.

Mkay, you probably didnt say America were the Good guys but i definitely got a one sided feel from your post.
Its just a shame that you call out Russia for small things like this taht arent even proven but America is clearly and undoubtedly the aggressor in almost every conflict right now including the one with Russia. Look at what America and pals did to the Ukraine and all so they could have a forward NATO base and piss off Russia.
America has literally destabilized the world and you say nothing, and Russia ALLEGEDLY takes a couple of planes off a radar and you scream satan.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: 412304

A solar storm wouldn't have knocked out radar screens or transponders without knocking out other electronics. Aircraft dropping off a radar screen on the other hand is exactly what electronic warfare is supposed to do. So unless we got hit by a selective solar storm that only affected radar systems, it was something else.

I see. but could an R1-Minor Radio Blackout Impact cause flights to go missing from the screens of traffic controllers? Not make the power of the computers shut down but just make the airliners not able to communicate their positions well with ground controllers?