Depression, the secret we share: A TED talk

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Mystik: I guess I'm pretty much just describing CBT or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. *shrug*

Buzzy: Yes! Practicing reframing things is a very important skill....and being patient while it 'sinks in' is also paramount. Some people frown on the "Fake it 'Til You Make It" method - but, practicing is, indeed, what leads to mastery - just with musical instruments (nice segue from vhb's participation, eh?). Thinking about positives rather than focusing on negatives is a very productive activity.

CBT is a therapy that gets one out of circular thinking patterns (over and over same repetitive thoughts; some call those are the ones that race track). I have never heard of "fake it 'Til You Make It" method. Why not work? "I am well, I am happy and content" could because the mind just has to create new pathways. One can be a 15 year old burger flipper (MRI the brain activity); that same person several years later taking a Bar exam (MRI brain activity) is significantly different. The brain changes to meet the demands asked of it. Its plastic, can change. Musical instruments/the sounds played in unison are allowing for a transcendence (magical).

This is perfect timing for me!!!! I have recently found myself in what feels like my lowest low. I have never been shy about seeing my doctor to get medical assistance for short term use. And I have previously been in counseling, which was very helpful. But I don't want to turn to medication as I am expecting, and I really don't want to talk it through with my therapist, again.

So I suffer in silence. It's getting really hard. I cry a lot. I feel the old return of lack of feeling. Before, it's caused massive weight loss, from no desire to eat. But that's not a good thing during pregnancy. I know I'm full of raging hormones, but I know the difference between hormonal and depressed.

Being outside does help, quite a bit. But like an above poster mentioned, night time is rough. I'm SO tired and exhausted, but I can't shut my mind off. Then I finally do, but any wakeing and the gears start turning.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

CBT is otherwise known as "fake it til you make it."



The triad:

feelings influence behavior which influence thoughts which influence feelings which influence thoughts which influence behavior...

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

It works to solve current problems and change unhelpful thinking and behavior.[1]

The name refers to behavior therapy, cognitive therapy, and therapy based upon a combination of basic behavioral and cognitive principles.[1] Most therapists working with patients dealing with anxiety and depression use a blend of cognitive and behavioral therapy. This technique acknowledges that there may be behaviors that cannot be controlled through rational thought, but rather emerge based on prior conditioning from the environment and other external and/or internal stimuli.

CBT is "problem-focused" (undertaken for specific problems) and "action-oriented" (therapist tries to assist the client in selecting specific strategies to help address those problems),[4] or directive in its therapeutic approach.

It is different from the more traditional, psychoanalytical approach, where therapists look for the unconscious meaning behind the behaviors and then diagnose the patient. Instead, behaviorists believe that disorders, such as depression, have to do with the relationship between a feared stimulus and an avoidance response, resulting in a conditioned fear, much like Ivan Pavlov. Cognitive therapists believed that conscious thoughts could influence a person’s behavior all on its own.

Ultimately, the two theories were combined to create what is now known as cognitive behavioral therapy.[5]

And it works.

Please note that in the second to last paragraph there, it talks about the "psychoanalytical approach" - I want to emphasize that this is the typical approach a "psyCHOLOGIST" will use....to "cure" the patient....

where a Clinical Social Worker "psychotherapist" starts where the client is, helps identify strengths, goals, history, and hoped for future.....and works WITH the client to improve things from the CLIENT'S perspective.

It isn't up to us to judge what the client wants - it's our job to help him get there, point out options, sort through thoughts, and devise a productive plan.

a reply to: chelsdh

Still - tell your doctor next time you go for a prenatal checkup.....and explain how you're feeling (not necessarily going over it all again, just describe it). You don't say how far along you are, or whether this is your first or not....

but please don't ignore your symptoms. I know from experience that being stressed and depressed when you're expecting can wreak havoc on you and also on the pregnancy and even on the baby.....

Be well, chels.....

for me personally I have learned two things, maybe those advices will help others also:
- long chill walk in the forest without any music, but just listening to all the sounds is relaxing as # for me. If you can do it barefooted, do that also, it helps and is very beneficial, google it, there is science behind this if you don't take my word for it.

- meditation/contemplations clears ALL negative obstacles for me. But I am a "long time meditator" and it was not so easy at beginning to make use of it. But I have figured out that for me it is most important to "sincerely talk with myself" about anything and everything. It must come from the heart, unburden yourself. Emancipate yourself.
Crying is not shameful at all and it helps a lot if it comes, than let it flow, let it ALL out.

I would avoid using any medical substances for depression, I think it is not necessary. we must try to get out of bad habitual thinking - clinging to the problem!
that is not possible with medicine, that will only make the problem worse in my opinion. What happens when medicine buzzes off, than the thoughts return... ?

Confront your thoughts and emotions not with drugs but head on with awareness and sincerity - purify your heart, when we stop clinging, we stop being sad, it is that simple!
...but It may be hardest way at the start but this will help you more than any medicine or counseling in my opinion and it gets easier to do with practice ... to counsel yourself! : )

Best wishes to all depressed, may luck and smiles get back to you ASAP.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Buzzy: CBT is otherwise known as "fake it til you make it."

Seriously? I got the premise right?

Buzzy: The triad: feelings influence behavior which influence thoughts which influence feelings which influence thoughts which influence behavior Cognitive_behavioral_therapy Cognitive Behavioral Therapy works to solve current problems and change unhelpful thinking and behavior.

Whatever works to help circular thinking; because can cause sleep loss (a perpetual panic attack, undue anxiety).

Buzzy: The name refers to behavior therapy, cognitive therapy, and therapy based upon a combination of basic behavioral and cognitive principles.[1] Most therapists working with patients dealing with anxiety and depression use a blend of cognitive and behavioral therapy. This technique acknowledges that there may be behaviors that cannot be controlled through rational thought, but rather emerge based on prior conditioning from the environment and other external and/or internal stimuli.

Rational thought is out the window; because one is in a perpetual 'flight or fight' scenario.

Buzzy: CBT is "problem-focused" (undertaken for specific problems) and "action-oriented" (therapist tries to assist the client in selecting specific strategies to help address those problems),[4] or directive in its therapeutic approach.

I would imagine those approaches are specific to the individual being treated and do not involve heavy medication?

Buzzy: It is different from the more traditional, psychoanalytical approach, where therapists look for the unconscious meaning behind the behaviors and then diagnose the patient. Instead, behaviorists believe that disorders, such as depression, have to do with the relationship between a feared stimulus and an avoidance response, resulting in a conditioned fear, much like Ivan Pavlov. Cognitive therapists believed that conscious thoughts could influence a person’s behavior all on its own.

So past learned behavior is not examined or deemed important; (Freud, Pavlov). Conscious thought CAN cause illness within the body; not only influence behavior on a subconscious level. I am all for this: DEMAND OF your body to behave itself, as YOU are in charge (a mind that is the executive) and not create decease within the cellular structures.

Buzzy: Ultimately, the two theories were combined to create what is now known as cognitive behavioral therapy. And it works.Please note that in the second to last paragraph there, it talks about the "psychoanalytical approach" - I want to emphasize that this is the typical approach a"psyCHOLOGIST" will use....to "cure" the patient....a Clinical Social Worker "psychotherapist" starts where the client is, helps identify strengths, goals, history, and hoped for future.....and works WITH the client to improve things from the CLIENT'S perspective.
It isn't up to us to judge what the client wants - it's our job to help him get there, point out options, sort through thoughts, and devise a productive plan.

I think the field is in for radical paradigm change. All is good; as base line systems must be in place to build upon.

originally posted by: UniFinity
for me personally I have learned two things, maybe those advices will help others also:
- long chill walk in the forest without any music, but just listening to all the sounds is relaxing as # for me. If you can do it barefooted, do that also, it helps and is very beneficial, google it, there is science behind this if you don't take my word for it.

I for some reason stopped wearing shoes for a year; unless to go the grocery store once a week in my car.... (no idea why but understand it now thanks to your insight). I lived in a rural environment; rocks, thorns, dirt (no pavement) crazy. I had completely forgotten about this short episode in my life (not happy times living with a sadist). I wore no shoes to 'ground myself'.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Thank you for your concern- it's often something that is so needed, to feel someone care. I am just into the 3rd trimester, and it's my 4th. I have never had prenatal depression, but postnatal depression was simply part of all my children's births.

It is pretty rough. I'm trying to find coping mechanisms. I keep telling myself "3 more months" then I can look into other options that aren't on the table now.

originally posted by: UniFinity
for me personally I have learned two things, maybe those advices will help others also:
- long chill walk in the forest without any music, but just listening to all the sounds is relaxing as # for me. If you can do it barefooted, do that also, it helps and is very beneficial, google it, there is science behind this if you don't take my word for it. ...

Oh! Earthing!! I had forgotten about this. I did this for awhile and was actually able to START SLEEPING RESTFULLY again after months! Coincidence? I could physically feel the anxiety drain out my body and into the ground. I know it sounds woo-woo but I would just quietly 'observe' and soon began noticing things like that. I only stopped when the heat ad chiggers became unbearable. Chigger Ridge haha

Fellow depressives- Kick off those shoes and walk in cool soft grass or sand, if you can find it!

Just from my perspective CBT or 'fake it till you make it' is BS. Depression does not allow you the energy or will to even try.

originally posted by: liveandlearn
Just from my perspective CBT or 'fake it till you make it' is BS. Depression does not allow you the energy or will to even try.

It is the recognition of the lack of body 'Vitality' and the will to "hope" for a better existence is the driver. Being miserable for too long is/can be expressed as boredom and mind numbing Boring; have to change it up.

Someone just got my takeout order d/p

Some but not all depressions can likely be helped by drinking more water, and for those who drink almost no water, lots of water. Wiser men/women/riverside animals than me have pointed that out. In some people, not for all or maybe most (or even any), the "vitality" (perfect word) leaves them during a severe depression because lack of water can do that. Depression hurts, says a recent ad campaign. And severe to kind-of-severe dehydration hurts, but that doesn't come equipped with an ad campaign doing cartwheels while spouting that fact around. Maybe being depressed and being dehydrated hurt exactly the same way, for some people, because they're the same thing. Drinking enough water to keep hydrated is not a cure all, but a cure some.

originally posted by: Aleister
Some but not all depressions can likely be helped by drinking more water, and for those who drink almost no water, lots of water. Wiser men/women/riverside animals than me have pointed that out. In some people, not for all or maybe most (or even any), the "vitality" (perfect word) leaves them during a severe depression because lack of water can do that. Depression hurts, says a recent ad campaign. And severe to kind-of-severe dehydration hurts, but that doesn't come equipped with an ad campaign doing cartwheels while spouting that fact around. Maybe being depressed and being dehydrated hurt exactly the same way, for some people, because they're the same thing. Drinking enough water to keep hydrated is not a cure all, but a cure some.

I have never heard this. However I have heard this: label you water container (preferably glass) with the words "I LOVE YOU" and can change the molecular structure of the water molecule. Tests done show this to be true. If you label your water "HATE, FOUL" will absolutely change that molecule (Japanese Water Studies) no idea as to how to link. Sewage or polluted water molecules resemble tiny monsters, those same molecules purified (filtered) and told they are loved look like snowflakes. Water in molecular form changes its shape depending upon what you tell it to believe. Water responds to human interaction.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Thanks for your reply

I understood the lack of vitality as the key 45 yrs ago with my first obvious depression. One of the older tricylics at minimun doses for 10 days did the trick and I new I actually had not been lazy all my life, I had been depressed.

This one has dragged on 11 years. I am old and tired. No fight energy left.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Cool, thanks. Since our body is mostly made of water, maybe we can skip the middleman and tell the water already in our body the same things.

originally posted by: Aleister
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Cool, thanks. Since our body is mostly made of water, maybe we can skip the middleman and tell the water already in our body the same things.

Why NOT? This was my premise in becoming Pro-Active: telling the body "HEY YOU, there is a Mind at work here that is watching YOU and in charge, don't mess up the program for everyone else". There have have studies done on purified water that was told it was 'loved' (the snowflake structure electron microscope photographed) and what happens when you verbally bully the same specimens. The molecular structure totally falls apart and look like lava formations. Thanks for the reply Aleister.

originally posted by: liveandlearn
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Thanks for your replyI understood the lack of vitality as the key 45 yrs ago with my first obvious depression. One of the older tricylics at minimun doses for 10 days did the trick and I new I actually had not been lazy all my life, I had been depressed. This one has dragged on 11 years. I am old and tired. No fight energy left.

You are here; I am listening there is some fight left. Old? what is that; 60 is the new 30. 30 year old's are wearing Pampers.

a reply to: vethumanbeing
Dr Emoto's water study

Here ya go
I think some may have debunked this theory but I still find it feasible. Can't hurt right?

originally posted by: Starcrossd
a reply to: vethumanbeing
Dr Emoto's water study

Here ya go

I think some may have debunked this theory but I still find it feasible. Can't hurt right?

I don't see how it can be debunked. The pictures are beautiful; the study is feasible. I would recommend everyone buy his book. Outstanding you! Starcrossd. How water actually reacts to human emotion is a revelation (keep an open mind). THANKS.