PayPal Donation Form is Back: We could use a little love...

a reply to: Belgianbeer

Well put sir. If they want my $, things will have to be a lot more transparent. That's the price of asking for other people's money... your business becomes theirs.

a reply to: Blazemore2000

All Im seeing is a bunch of snoopy old gossipy women who want to know everyones business.

Don't donate and your problem is solved.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Don't read my posts then... and so is yours.

a reply to: Blazemore2000

LOL ok

Lets face it you are all sooooooo desperate to find out what goes on behind the scenes, it almost kills you to not know

Too funny.
Dont donate and everyone who has a problem, no longer has a problem.....

A song for y'all




Back porch preacher preaching at me
Acting like he wrote the golden rules
Shaking his fist and speeching at me
Shouting from his soap box like a fool
Come Sunday morning he's lying in bed
With his eye all red, with the wine in his head
Wishing he was dead when he oughta be
Heading for Sunday school

Clean up your own backyard
Oh don't you hand me none of your lines
Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I'll tend to mine

Drugstore cowboy criticizing
Acting like he's better than you and me
Standing on the sidewalk supervising
Telling everybody how they ought to be
Come closing time 'most every night
He locks up tight and out go the lights
And he ducks out of sight and he cheats on his wife
With his employee

Clean up your own backyard
Oh don't you hand me none of your lines
Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I'll tend to mine

Armchair quarterback's always moanin'
Second guessing people all day long
Pushing, fooling and hanging on in
Always messing where they don't belong
When you get right down to the nitty-gritty
Isn't it a pity that in this big city
Not a one a'little bitty man'll admit
He could have been a little bit wrong

Clean up your own backyard
Oh don't you hand me, don't you hand me none of your lines
Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I'll tend to mine

Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I'll tend to mine

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Wow your attitude is atrocious. God forbid someone has the guts to ask "where are my dollars going" when people ask for donations. To blindly throw money at a cause without knowing where the money is going is careless. What if donations to ATS were being used to support causes you were against? Wouldn't that cause you to double think how you handed out your money. Now I'm not accusing ATS LLC of funding anything like terror groups, hate groups, Pro abortion, anti abortion, pro government, anti establishment, cam girls, cam guys etc..... but shouldn't that transparency be there to put donators minds at ease? Where does the money go is not to much to ask, and to ridicule those who do so shows immaturity and ignorance on your part. Its foolish to sit back and assume that you can blindly trust people you've never met, who you don't know what there motives are or even their trustworthiness. I would love to think that ATS is a organization that only has the best in mind for its users and community and that it would never take advantage of its contributors. But if they have nothing to hide what are they worried about when it comes to transparency? SO yes you can do whatever you wish with your money but don't chastise those who want to protect its community and their fellow posters.

a reply to: solids0be

I think the attitude of "show me your business finances" is atrocious, but hey I'm old fashioned maybe. Maybe you guys can all post your tax returns here.

Again, Don't donate, your moral problem is solved.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

a marked decline in ads combined with the ever-increasing threat of ad blockers.

Have you given any thought to building a method to circumvent ad blockers?

You know...build the visitor a truly "custom" page...including the ads? i.e. ads not loaded by the client, and supplied entirely by the host...

I don't think such a control would be difficult to implement...

a reply to: tanka418

I've really hesitated to post this idea because I'm sure to get a flea in my ear BUT:

Sponsored Avatars

For instance I could have a banner across my avatar saying "Shop at Pongo's Pet Emporium" and in my signature could be a banner and a link to the said Emporium. Anyone following the link could qualify for a discount or vouchers. *

Ad blockers don't block out avatars or signatures, do they?


*Not a real establishment, I made them up

Give until it hurts people, never know. This website could soon be one of the most important, um, EVER!

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I think the attitude of "show me your business finances" is atrocious, but hey I'm old fashioned maybe. Maybe you guys can all post your tax returns here.

Is it not atrocious as well to be condemned for asking questions or having concerns?

1. SO has every right to do as he wishes and not discuss his business model and requests donations or charge to access the site.

2. ATS members have every right to ask questions or express their concerns.

I see no one being forced to either answer the questions or forced to pay?

So what is the problem? Why are members attacking each other for asking questions or making request. There are valid points on each side from what I see.


Personally , I find it strange to charge members to participate and give feedback on making the site better. Typically that is something you would get paid for , not the other way around.

However it is not my site and its SO right to do as he wishes and if tomorrow I feel that ATS has jumped the shark I will be on my way. Neither one of us has strings attached.

IMO I don't think ATS is having any trouble paying the bills , instead its taking action to stay relevant in the future with its online business model and testing the waters with a hybrid ad/pay revenue model to maintain growth. Which I find nothing wrong with and they should be taking such measures so they don't run into financial problems.


My concern if it can be called that is not monetary as I'm not being forced to pay ATS, but rather as a an ATS member seeing the site making changes that might not be positive down the road.

Despite that not being my problem I don't see why I should be condemned for stating my disagreement? Just like I'm not being forced to pay , I'm not forcing anyone to accept my view.

The motto I hear is "deny ignorance", part of that is asking questions or pointing out things when they don't make sense. Like paying to give advice?

To me it sounds like more of a VIP exclusive membership and testing the waters: Changing from an ad revenue to a hybrid pay/ad revenue site . Again nothing wrong with it its the owners right to do as such, but can see both benefits and cons for a pay model.

The question for me to answer is , will I find it worth while to PAY AND CONTRIBUTE my time and efforts to a forum? The benefits appear a little lopsided to me. Than what is to prevent commercial interest from manipulating the topics and freedom of discussion via being big contributors and influential to the site?

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
But I DO resent the idea that we, the contributing members, should pay for the privilege of becoming part of some "inner circle"

The opening post said; "a private forum dedicated to brainstorming on new ideas, technology, strategies, content, etc. for keeping ATS strong and moving forward."

That is the only purpose of the forum. The presume anything else is wrong.

ForteanOrg is absolutely justified in his resentment, and Skeptic, your response to him is absurd. By your own description of this new forum, it is very much exactly what Fortean calls it: an 'inner circle' of people on the ATS forum -- one in which membership is reserved exclusively to those willing to pay a hundred bucks for it. The truth of it is so very blatantly obvious that it's ludicrous for you to argue the point.

originally posted by: tanka418
You know...build the visitor a truly "custom" page...including the ads? i.e. ads not loaded by the client, and supplied entirely by the host...

Yes, that can be done. And adblockers typically will not block that type of content either (1).

But that would not make ATS much money. See, most coloc/hosting providers will charge for consumed bandwidth. So, if ATS would include ads into their pages directly, so, kinda like they do with avatars, their bandwidth consumption would increase dramatically, and the coloc/hosting provider would probably send a bigger bill. That bill may well be a bit bigger than the income made by the ads. .

(1) it still can be done, but it takes some additional tools and some additional skills which most people do not have or if so do not bother to use.

a reply to: interupt42

originally posted by: argentusI really don't see the value in any drama. It's a simple personal choice to be exercised in the way each of us sees fit.

You're leaving out the core of the matter: members that already invest a lot here are being asked to invest even more, while those that don't contribute at all get a free ride. E.g. if free-riders have ad blockers running, there is no penalty. If members have ad blockers running, they are deprived of essential features.

ATS owners, really, take a long hard look into the mirror, and ask yourselves: it that fair?

If you want to discuss the future well-being of ATS (either as as charity or a business) in some closed forum, simply set up a new section of this site (or a new, closed site) that is only accessible for members that have been here for a certain time, and have proven to be able and willing to contribute to the quality of ATS. They already invested in ATS, they are allowed a say in the matter I'd say.

Also, you could start blocking features for NON-CONTRIBUTING members / non-members, e.g. only allow them access to a limited amount of posts in any thread, or just the first 2 lines of any post, etc. whilst (contributing) members get access to everything. Non-contributing members could simply BUY access to certain threads they'd like to read in full, for a few cents, you'd get access to all postings in a thread.

That, IMO, would be a much more fair (and probably profitable) business model.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Wow. Umm... are you actually suggesting a subscription site that requires payment?
shusshhh!

This OP is not asking for a fee or payment. It was just a - hey, if you can afford to help us out, we could use it.
If you don't want to, then don't.

How does a paid subscription site make anything better?
Some people would not be able to participate at all then, if they can't afford it.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I think you are begging the question.

members that already invest a lot here are being asked to invest even more, while those that don't contribute at all get a free ride. E.g. if free-riders have ad blockers running, there is no penalty. If members have ad blockers running, they are deprived of essential features.

How do you know who contributes what? Moreover, the request is being put out to all members -- it wasn't in any way qualified. It seems like you want to put a monetary value on your contributions here, and that's your right, I suppose. Most of the rest of us seem happy to contribute to a place where we are welcome to do so. No need to complicate it further than than, imo. I like it here. Do you? Want to contribute? Yes? Cool. No? Also cool.

The T&C applies to everyone. You and me both agreed to them upon registration. We are both held to those terms.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Also, you could start blocking features for NON-CONTRIBUTING members / non-members, e.g. only allow them access to a limited amount of posts in any thread, or just the first 2 lines of any post, etc. whilst (contributing) members get access to everything. Non-contributing members could simply BUY access to certain threads they'd like to read in full, for a few cents, you'd get access to all postings in a thread.

It seems to me that your suggestions in this thread involve driving away members and casual visitors to the site.

Contrast that with a polite invitation to make a voluntary donation to the site; 'invitation' and 'voluntary' being key words here.

Your ideas would kill the site and SO's ideas may, or may not, perpetuate the site.

Really i think the site should be opened up for investment, donations don't sit right for me, i do not like the idea of donating money so i can be censored ....I would also like to know what topics are dissolved because it does not sit well with advertisers.....

This site is a great idea and you owners should make money and should be able to without asking the members who make the site viable in the first place pay to keep it running