Rape Culture

originally posted by: InTheLight
It is by definition

No, it's not.

originally posted by: InTheLight
and we women and men are stepping forward to define and explain it.

Mistaken again.

Gender-feminists are are simply stepping forward in attempts to re-define it to further the victim mentality in our spoiled "Victim Culture".

originally posted by: redmage

originally posted by: InTheLight
It is by definition

No, it's not.

originally posted by: InTheLight
and we women and men are stepping forward to define and explain it.

Mistaken again.

Gender-feminists are are simply stepping forward in attempts to re-define it to further the victim mentality in our spoiled "Victim Culture".

Read and learn.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: InTheLight
Read and learn.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Utter nonsense.

First you claim "It is by definition, and we women and men are stepping forward to define and explain it.

If it is a rape culture "by definition", why would anyone be stepping forward "to define" what already has been defined by your own admission? Because gender-feminists are attempting to re-define it. Twist it to suit an agenda.

Now you link an article with the premise "Rape Culture Is: Know It When You See It".

Know it when you see it? So basically everyone has carte blanche permission to subjective define it on any given whim.

I get it. "Problem glasses" are currently en vogue, but the whole notion, which you barely support, of a "Rape Culture" existing in the U.S. comes across as being detached from reality, and lost in a "problem glasses" fantasy.

a reply to: redmage

Accepting reality can be difficult for some.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

Accepting reality can be difficult for some.

True, but I do believe that someday you'll be able to reach that point.

Best of luck in your endeavor.

a reply to: redmage

Good joke.

LOL Huffington post is going to be the bastion of feminist politics although to be fair that goes for most media.

So really I think it's obvious that:

a - definition of what is 'rape' varies (used to be simple and obvious, now is terrifyingly complex, arbitrary, and retroactive);

b - definition of what is 'a rape culture' varies (used to represent cultures that openly promoted rape such as Islam-dominated countries, but now apparently represents any culture where rape 'exists' which now means every country in the world is a rape culture).

Understanding this, there's no point in arguing what either "is" since obviously there's going to be no agreement on definition. Without agreement on language definitions, communications are pointless.

But I think there is an underlying point to a) and b) that are the reason the OP brought it up in the first place. And that is:

How does the modern feminist redefinition of these words -- and let us say that we simply accept those definitions for a moment ok -- affect the culture, at a micro (individual) level and a macro (larger culture/media/law) level?

How specifically are men and women, separately as well as within relationships, helped or harmed?

What improvement or worsening occurs at the macro level with the change in definition?

Whether these new definitions for the terms should be considered (I will grant they cannot be accepted as-is in the 'rape' term without profound miscarriage of justice and humanity), should be evaluated in the context of: "Is it helping? Is it hurting?"

And if we see it is doing both in various places, can we target just areas that need a solution and end up with definitions and an approach that made this a joint effort toward solution, rather than what seems to be actual venom-violence-threats-war online?

RC

a reply to: RedCairo

The modern feminists are not defining it, rather researchers. sexual experts, psychiatrists and sociologists are - these are their sources for fact and definition. It's just , as is normal, for some unknown reason, the subject matter - perhaps underlain by generations of stigma and shame - is still met with a sweeping under the rug.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: YachiruKusajishi

I didn't see any glossing over, just a difference of opinion as to whether rape culture exists.

You indeed did exactly that, as a snub. She shared something with us, followed by a valid opinion that SHOULD give you enough pause to think "Huh, maybe I AM wrong here". Instead of actually listening to someone who has BTDT, you invalidate her opinion and shrug it off as "a difference in opinions" because it doesn't fit your own twisted narrative.
THAT is glossing over Yachiru's post. All to push this pathetic victim culture stance further. This is a shameful example of why modern feminism isn't actually about women as a whole, but a slim subset of spoiled brats scheming to get their way, and only their way at every turn in life. To hell with the opinions of others, even those who've been through the hellishness they purport to be against. If their opinions don't back feminism outright, because god dammit a guy did it so you should be all for it, then they're tossed to the wayside.

Given how feminism and politics control academia (see equity feminist book "Who Stole Feminism?" for example) I admit to being some degree of wary of letting that same source define all 'expertise', but moving on. (I would be interested to see the list of the same qualified people on the men's side.)

In reading the materials online in various areas, what I sometimes see is stuff that ranges from merely injustly irrational, to seriously pathological, to shocking and even homicidal. The worst I've seen on the men's side is chauvenist dismissiveness and occasional dude-rudeness, but on the women's side it is just jaw-dropping and prolific emotional frenzy, and in many cases completely over the top. And these are sometimes people who appear to get traction in that field, links and blogs and media references and so on. Which leads me to wonder:

Are the "experts" addressing the specific elements, events, processes (like in college) that are being presented by the "media feminists" that are making such a horrified impression on a lot of the public?

For example do they have a definition of 'rape' that is not totally arbitrary and defining the word by itself? Do the definitions vary by expert?

Do some require for example a verbal may-I-touch-your-left-breast-now?-yes for every point of a seduction?

(I was once asked something like that with a man. I was mortified-embarrassed and never wanted him to touch me again suddenly -- that's got to be a process for extroverts, definitely not for near subs for whom making it verbal absolutely destroys the scene. That was more effective than Sunday School abstinence counseling LOL!)

Is there an 'expert' definition on the elements such as alcohol?

What I think I'm getting at here is, since the leading media personalities seem to be psychotic, I'm rather hoping that your category of "experts" is a great deal more sane, and is merely being represented by the worst elements of female society. And yet since those people are the one you suggest are relying on those experts, I find it confusing that their approaches would differ if they do.

Anyway any feedback is welcome.

RC

The dressing to be raped in such garbage, go to any beach and you will see females in bikini's all over the place, are men hunting them down and raping them left right and center, because they see women 85% naked, NO !

The dress narrative of a lack of clothing is attracting rapes is bogus, because if it was true there would be more rapes on the beaches than any other place.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Maybe because there are a lot of witnesses and people are on the beach mostly on the daytime ?
people really love statistics so here are few

One out of every six American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape). A total of 17.7 million women have been victims of these crimes. (Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey, National Institute of Justice and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1998)

In 2002, seven out of every eight rape victims were female. (2002 NCVS)

75% of female rape victims require medical care after the attack (U.S. Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1994)

While about 80% of all victims are white, minorities are somewhat more likely to be attacked. Lifetime rate of rape/attempted rape (women) based on 1998 NVAWS:

All: 17.6% (approx. 1 in 5)
White: 17.7%
Black: 18.8%
Asian.Pacific Islander: 6.8%
Am. Indian/Alaskan: 34.1%
Mixed Race: 24.4%

About three percent of American men -- a total of 2.78 million men -- have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. (Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women 1998)

In 2002, one in every eight rape victims were male. (2002 NCVS)

)About 44% of rape victims are under age 18. Three out of every twenty victims (15%) are under age 12. (Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1997)

Among people 12 and older, about 83.5% of the US population is white, and 82.5% of rape victims are white; 13.3% of victims are black, compared to 12.3% of the population; and 4.2% of both victims and the population are of other races. (NCVS, 2000)

In 2001, only 39% of rapes and sexual assaults were reported to law enforcement officials — about one in every three. (2002 NCVS)

Approximately 66% of rape victims know their assailant. (2000 NCVS)

Approximately 48% of victims are raped by a friend or acquaintance; 30% by a stranger; 16% by an intimate; 2% by another relative; and in 4% of cases the relationship is unknown. (2000 NCVS)


Statistics in this section are from "Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, February 1997":

About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim’s own home. Two in ten take place in the home of a friend, neighbor or relative. One in ten take place outside, away from home. And about one in 12 take place in a parking garage.
More than half of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occurred within one mile of their home or at their home.
43% of rapes occur between 6 pm and midnight. 24% occur between midnight and 6am. The other 33% take place between 6am and 6pm.


15% of victims are under age 12
29% are age 12-17
44% are under age 18
80% are under age 30 (SOO, 1997, 1999 NCVS)
Age 12-34 are the highest risk years. Risk peaks in the late teens: girls 16 to 19 are four times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. (NCVS, 2000)

The average age of rapists at arrest is 31. Fifty-two percent are white; twenty-two percent of imprisoned rapists report that they are married. (SOO, 1997)
Juveniles accounted for about 16% of forcible rape arrestees in 1995 and 17% of those arrested for other sex offenses (SOO, 1997)
In about one out of three sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated—30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs. (Alcohol and Crime. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1998)
In one study, 98% of males who raped boys reported that they were heterosexual. (Sexual Abuse of Boys, Journal of the American Medical Association, December 2, 1998)
In 2001, only about 7% of rapes involved the use of a weapon—two percent used a gun, and four percent used a knife. 86% of victims reported the use of physical force only, and 7% were unsure. (2000 NCVS)
Rapists are more likely to be serial criminals than serial rapists. In one study, 46% of rapists who were released from prison were rearrested within 3 years of their release for another crime -- 18.6% for a violent offense, 14.8% for a property offense, 11.2% for a drug offense and 20.5% for a public-order offense. (2002 RPR94)

The following statistics are from "The Sexual Victimization of College Women," U.S. Department of Justice, 2000:

1 in 4 college women will be raped during their collegiate career
Of the incidents categorized as a completed rape, 46.5% felt they were raped, 48.8% felt they were NOT raped, and 4.7% did not know
In 94% of the completed and attempted rape cases, the offenders were known to the victim (classmate, friend, boyfriend/ex, acquaintance)
59% of completed rapes occurred in the victim's residence, 31% occurred in other living quarters, and 10% took place in a fraternity house
1 in 5 rape and attempted rape incidents resulted in "bruises, black-eyes, cuts, scratches, swelling, or chipped teeth"
Less than 5% of completed and attempted rapes were reported to law enforcement officials; however 2/3's told another person about the incident (mainly a friend, not family or a college official)
13.1% of females reported being stalked since the school year began (an incidence rate of 156.5 per 1,000 female students)
61% of rapes/sexual assaults are not reported to the police. Those rapists, of course, never serve a day in prison.
If the rape is reported to police, there is a 50.8% chance that an arrest will be made.
If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution. If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction.
If there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail.
So, even in those 39% of rapes that are reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison.

LINK

Some studies at Yale University..

THE PSYCHOLOGY OF RAPE AND THE RAPIST

The raping of women is a crime on the increase in the United States. It is a crime that is often misunderstood and surrounded by myths. It is our goal to dissect some aspects of this insidious act and share some of the more recently discovered facts.

One commonly believed myth is that rape is primarily a sexual act. Persons with this belief often unintentionally place the victim on trial. Her motives, her dress and her actions become suspect not only to law enforcement officials but also to her family and friends. The woman�s credibility may be questioned and her sexual activity and private life may be made public. Perhaps because of the guilt, embarrassment and humiliation, rape has been a highly underreported crime. However, throughout the past 20 years a variety of psychologists and sociologists have begun to study the psychology of rape and rapists. Their findings have shown that rape is a crime of violence, often regarded by the woman as a life-threatening act in which fear and humiliation are her dominant emotions. Sexual desire is less a motivation for the man than violent aggression.

Again almost half were committed between 8:00 P.M. and 2:00 A.M. Further, approximately 71% of the rapes were planned. The choice of victim was often left to chance and circumstance, but the rapist set out to rape someone. Planning is even more prevalent in pair or gang rapes.

43% of the rapes involved more than one offender

Rape is probably the most underreported crime in the United States. In a Department of Justice report on forcible rape published in 1978, it was estimated that only one-fifth of all rapes are ever reported to the police

Why do so many women choose to remain silent after being sexually assaulted? To answer that question, one should look at the three institutions with which she will come into contact: the police, the hospital, and the courts
- POLICE: In most locations the patrol officer on call will respond to a complaint by a rape victim. This officer has probably had little, if any, training in dealing with rape.
- HOSPITAL: Whether or not a rape victim intends to report an attack to the police, she should obtain medical care. When a woman who has been raped arrives at a hospital, medical personnel have a two-fold responsibility. They must treat the patient and also provide evidence for the police that a rape did occur.
- THE COURTS: A woman may report an assault to the police but choose not to press charges. However, if she does decide to file a complaint and the rapist is arrested, she may come to feel that she, not the rapist, is the person on trial. With few exceptions, statements by these victims describe their court experiences as unpleasant and difficult.

LINK

Worth of reading. there are also instructions how to avoid rape..
It is obvious that rape victims are not treated in most cases and instances like victims should be treated. Also it seems that there is certain blindness towards how serious rape crime is. Looks like there is not enough training of officials either how to deal with such a crimes.

Thank you Dollukka, yes statistics (vs. emotional hyperbole) absolutely warm my logical heart. I have seen reference to various of those stats before -- some called into question for legitimacy, some seemingly supported -- there was another I didn't see in your list and I am trying to remember where I saw it recently so I could add it here, but it was the only real study done on 100% of complainants to a city police force in a given period which made it fairly unique. No matter what can be said about any given study or detail it's clear that it's a serious issue.

I don't think it is more an issue here than it is anywhere else in the world and probably less for various reasons. I think the term 'rape culture' would just have to be applied to 'humanity' globally and every country on earth, if the measure were does a country have lots of this experience reported or expected even if not reported. There's a real big diff between this (every modern culture with male and female) and some of the genuine rape cultures (e.g. the Islamics) which is unfortunate, maybe because it leads people here to say come on we're nowhere near that which might be dismissive; and also because for some bizarre reason western feminists want to defend to the death a 23 year old's right to not see A WORD in a classic english novel that might 'trigger' her fragile flower sensibilities yet they say not a damn thing about the whole situation for Muslim women and children that is like violence-rape-hell on earth. Our perspective on both cultures and the different issues in both places probably suffers as a result.

I consider all rape of non-adults to be a different category although it's the same crime -- these aren't happening in parking garages, frat parties and on dates when a family friend is involved for example, and I think the issue of sex with children and family protection of this is a really huge issue (not just from my own multiple experiences but that most the women I've known have had this as well, my daughter excepted probably since I was so proactively paranoid for her as a result). I don't think this makes all men rapists as many of the feminists say. I think it's an issue of the fact that there are statistically quite a number of men one comes into contact with, and child molesters and rapists (as one stat shows) are hugely premeditated so with unsuspecting everyone, it's pretty easy to arrange opportunity. Statistically women are likely to come across at least one man who is a moral cretin between the age of 5 and 18, and since they are calculating premeditated and children are extremely vulnerable for several reasons, the odds of that exposure resulting in crime are high. Then it seems like "most women experience it so it's overwhelming" but from the men's side, it's only a small percentage who are criminal.

One thing seems clear... any behavior which is highly prevalent in a society is not, will never be, resolved by more hysteria, more extreme consequences (which affect a big radius of people negatively, not just the perpetrator). That will only create more protection of criminals, more suppression of accounts, more automatic psychology where people of both genders and especially everyone in the sphere-of-effect is going to have some kind of reason for not wanting it to be so, which will never lead to more openness or accuracy. This isn't just about sex it's human nature -- if you tell someone not to drink or eat something and they want to, and you make the penalty harsh they just go further underground with it and everyone around them dysfunctionally tends to go with them. Most issues we really want to fix begin with a ground level of calm approach and some degree of understanding there is clearly a problem/sickness going on and that this should be recognized and treated (as opposed to found out and lynched).

I don't know the solution, except of course that awareness of the danger and hence proactive self-protective behavior (and very much on behalf of all children) is important. This is part of what has made many people so crazy about the modern wave of feminist propaganda about rape though -- is that in their passionate insistence that the world should be a disney story where bad things shouldn't happen no matter how much high-risk behavior is involved, they both further endanger women who should be made more aware and self-protective not less, and blanket-blame men by refusing to categorize criminals as criminals because it's easier to just blanket-brush the whole gender.

Rather like it's hard to tell which Muslims want to blow us up so it's a lot easier to just hate all Muslims and consider them as a class dangerous, this is exactly what modern feminism is doing to men as a prejudice -- they won't criminalize criminals or recognize high-risk behavior that contributes to the quantity of victims, they just want to consider all women responsible for nothing about themselves and all men responsible for everything that only a small % of criminals do.

I think of it like animal predators. If you know there are predators around you teach your kids everything you can about protecting themselves and you consider it a conscious, ever-present part of life. That doesn't mean you shoot every rabbit and coyote you see but it does mean you recognize wolf tracks and know where gators likely hide.

I think most men would be totally on board with supporting and helping women and children plan for, protect from, be wary of, sexual predators. Men should always be part of any solution in our culture because they are part of our people and families, our foundation and our future. Nothing modern feminism is doing is leveraging any degree of positive relation with the vast majority of non-criminal men in the culture. By treating all men like criminals they have begun to make all men feel like women are the enemy.

RC

a reply to: dollukka

Why does it always seem to be these ivy league frat boys getting accused of rape?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

Accepting reality can be difficult for some.

Yes, it can. Let's not forget that we live in a society where the so-called "rape culture" is so prevalent that we write laws covering bathrooms and locker rooms where people get naked in full view of others so broadly that any man can go into one with a woman strip and shower or simply watch women doing the same and do so unchallenged no matter how violated they feel.

Why? Because we feel it is more important to protect the feelings of those who may honestly think they actually are women trapped in a man's body.

But the laws are written so that any man can do this and claim he felt like a woman regardless of what any woman feels and regardless of what he actually feels. According to some hopelessly loose definitions of rape ... we now have laws that will allow women to be raped in their own locker rooms all day every day and they can't do anything about it.

So let's revisit what we actually think about rape culture in America. If we actually had it the way you think we do and it was actually as prevalent as you think it is, do you , for one second, think any female law maker (and many male ones who love their female relatives for that matter) worth her salt would have sat back and voted for something like this? I don't. Why because according to you she was either raped and reported it or because she was raped and didn't. It makes no logical sense.

And being raped changes how you view men. Certainly it changes how trusting you are with them.

a reply to: Domo1

To some extent I don't feel it's my place to comment... I understand everyone is responsible for their own self-control and actions. But as humans we have animilistic urges.. If you hold a piece of meat in front of a dog for long enough it'll bite your hand to get what it wants.. It's the equivalent of poking the hornets nest. Certain clothing on woman can be very provocative. It can change a man's entire behavior towards a woman. Show me enough skin and I won't be able to talk in clear sentences. I won't touch what I'm not allowed to touch, doesn't mean some scantily clad young lady won't throw all my thoughts into dissaray, and for some, it might just be to much and the animal within emerges.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

The beach is a different context. Woman aren't necessarily dressed provocatively, they are dressed to go swimming. It's different when she's deliberately dressed provocatively, in a very short skirt or short, and tight pants. The man know's what she's trying to do... And sometimes he falls a little to hard for her shenanigans.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Domo1

To some extent I don't feel it's my place to comment... I understand everyone is responsible for their own self-control and actions. But as humans we have animilistic urges.. If you hold a piece of meat in front of a dog for long enough it'll bite your hand to get what it wants.. It's the equivalent of poking the hornets nest. Certain clothing on woman can be very provocative. It can change a man's entire behavior towards a woman. Show me enough skin and I won't be able to talk in clear sentences. I won't touch what I'm not allowed to touch, doesn't mean some scantily clad young lady won't throw all my thoughts into dissaray, and for some, it might just be to much and the animal within emerges.

Another stupid, meaningless analogy.

If what you said was true only hot looking women in club wear would be victims.

It's ridiculous in the extreme.
Some folks are just bad.
They'll do what they do regardless of how their victim is dressed or acts.

I really think this sort of bs rape apology stuff is at the heart of what people mean when they talk about rape culture.

I'd suggest anyone not capable of keeping their hands to themselves in the presence of someone they may find attractive needs removing from the gene pool pronto.

a reply to: rockintitz

I think what many people fail to understand is that those who rape people have a mental problem that isn't fixed by logical discussion.

Those who continue to treat rapists as if logical discussion will fix the problem are literally part of the problem, because they often choose to berate those who suggest constructive ideas (concealed carry and training for women, self-defense classes, et.) that empower potential victims are the wrong solution.

Both mindsets baffle my sense of understanding.