Vaccines?

Hi, i'm knew here, registering to ask something, though I do read the news from time to time.
I've been wondering, from time to time I read these news about how vaccinations can be used as a means to test something new(e.g. ilness or whatever).

Someone I know seems to be getting more sick, more often than they used to, after such a shot. It was a tetanus shot a few months ago. Are any of you aware of anything regarding that and were could I find more info on that?

I would say run a Google search. There's a ton of info out there. Grab yourself something to drink, and read away.

Really?
I wouldn't have guessed you could find such a thing in google.
That much info, huh?

I'll be searching for it, thanks.

ShadowBorn u can ask me what ever u wanna know about Vaccines coz its my research topic as an undergraduate Medical Student

Vaccines are given to help the body protect against future attacks from the same/similar attacks. It is not natural for the person who got vaccinated to get sick, actually it is good, because it is a sign saying the body is fighting against the disease and the sickness is simply a sign of it.

But if the person has been sick for more than a week or so, then it maybe that the vaccine isn't being accepted by your body or it is having some sideeffects.

Better to check with your doctor. You don't pay insurance for nothing.

Surf

Hm, thanks for the replies, I'll be asking you guys some stuff more the days to come.

Prelude, I heard that MSG which I have an adverse reaction to is used in live virus vaccinations. Is this true and do you know why they use it? Is MSG also used in other vaccinations? I'm just curious.

I had a tetanus shot a few months ago. It hurt a little and then the soreness where I was shot went away after a day or two.

[edit on 16-1-2005 by orionthehunter]

[edit on 16-1-2005 by orionthehunter]

Originally posted by prelude
ShadowBorn u can ask me what ever u wanna know about Vaccines coz its my research topic as an undergraduate Medical Student

I have a question that has to do with tetanus shots up to last October, if you know of it, but I suppose you wouldn't be aware as a doctor(or undergraduate student), if they used some substance for testing purposes, e.g. something that could make you more prone to colds, or anything that would mess with your immune system after a few months.

Other than that, what's the effects of the following in a person?

"Prelude, I heard that MSG which I have an adverse reaction to is used in live virus vaccinations. Is this true and do you know why they use it? Is MSG also used in other vaccinations? I'm just curious.

Oh, and is it possible for a person, to suffer any inability for anygiven time from a vaccine and under which circumstances?

To orionthehunter:
I had one during my army days. You might get dizzy, or a lot dizzy(I noticed other guys were). Normally, you shouldn't have a problem with the needle sting. Two days seems quite a lot, but I don't want to alarm you on it. Reactions vary from person to person.

.

Originally posted by ShadowBorn
Normally, you shouldn't have a problem with the needle sting. Two days seems quite a lot, but I don't want to alarm you on it. Reactions vary from person to person.

.

Since I hardly even noticed the tetanus shot due to another injury, I wasn't worried about a little bit of soreness from the shot either. The doctors could have given me a few other things which I wasn't even aware of. Some of my soreness may have been injury related too.

sorry guys for late answer…I had exams all these days….but here is the info u needed

Well in order to understand the effects of Tetanus vaccine and live vaccines u need to learn in depth about vaccination but these nutshell info might be of help….
Vaccination is a part of IMMUNIZATION
immunization are of 2 types
1 Passive Immunization ….here they use ANTIBODY (produced by Human body ….given to patients for TREATMENT and along with Toxoids (discussed later)obtained from other Human /Animal donors)
2 Active Immunization or Vaccination
here they use ANTIGEN (produced by bacteria /virus/other pathogens……Given to patients in attenuated (WEAKENED) form for ADVANCED PROPHYLAXIS

this vaccination is divided into 5 types

1 Live attenuated Vaccines : here the bacteria/virus is injected live to the patients but its engineered to weakened the strength of the bacteria or virus as a result of which our body gets ample time and opportunity to develop Immunity(defense) against it ….this work of defense is carried out by T lymphocytes and B lymphocytes apart from destroying the organism these T and B lymphocytes has a special subclass called MEMORY CELLS these cells prepare a clone of the antigen (the attenuated bacteria/ virus) so that when the same bacteria or virus attacks your body again you body Immune system can immediately react to the bacteria or virus……thus your body is protected from future attacks

but the problem with this type of vaccine is that the ATTENUATED organism may get activated from their weakened form and cause the disease for wich you are taking the vaccine (in 1 out of 2.4 million cases they do in healthy individuals; moreover if your body defenses are weak due to some other disease like AIDS there is 30% chance of such activation )here lies the problem with live vaccines and that’s why we in Russia never recommend live vaccines ….they are the last /worst choice but in some cases(eg Tuberculosis..BCG, polio ,mumps vaccine etc ) / some places these are the only forms of available vaccines so the doctors have no choice but to give it and take a chance.
2 killed cells
same as above(live vaccines) but the organisms are killed as a result there is no chance of activation of the Bacteria/virus but the Immunity developed is a bit weaker

3 Toxoids these are the toxins(more correctly exotoxins) of the bacteria in Weakened form
Toxoids are the most common forms of vaccination for Tetanus and diphtheria(also cholera )
The problem you people mentioned with tetanus vaccine is due to sudden attack of the toxin (ie Toxoid) in your body for which your body was not prepared ,,,in order to prevent such problem your doctor must 1 give PASSIVE IMMUNIZATION (see above)along with the tetanus vaccine
2 Test your sensitivity to the vaccine and regulate the dose accordingly


if your Doctor didn’t do so then he is not a good/well informed/ up-to-date doctor .

the other forms of vaccination are

4 microbial Antigens (used in Anthrax, Hepatitis B and acellular pertussis)
5 Conjugated Vaccines …..these are the combination of the above forms and we (our research team) believe these are the best forms of Vaccination available …this type of vaccination are used for prophylaxis against heamophilus influenzae type B, meningococcal infections(meningitis) , pneumococcal infections etc

hope my information helps fell free to ask more questions

Thanks for the answer Prelude. I believe I will just stay away from live virus vaccines for multiple reasons. I believe there is a much higher chance of developing an illness from the live virus vaccine than the other type of vaccines. I believe I read somewhere that MSG is used somehow or is in the live virus vaccine. I will just avoid those vaccines. My local doctor told me the altenative flu vaccine (maybe called flumist, not sure) uses a live virus. I lost interest in it after he told me that.

thanks, prelude, stuff I never knew.

Doing a search here for "tetanus" and "vaccine":

This thread talked about tetanus:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ShadowBorn
Hi, i'm knew here, registering to ask something, though I do read the news from time to time.
I've been wondering, from time to time I read these news about how vaccinations can be used as a means to test something new(e.g. ilness or whatever).

Someone I know seems to be getting more sick, more often than they used to, after such a shot. It was a tetanus shot a few months ago. Are any of you aware of anything regarding that and were could I find more info on that?

You maybe get sick after a vaccination, when your immune system is bated!
Before you go to the doctor to get a shot, notice that you havent any sniffles or flu infects!

best wishes

dc

[edit on 20-2-2005 by dacruz]

Originally posted by prelude
...these T and B lymphocytes has a special subclass called MEMORY CELLS these cells prepare a clone of the antigen (the attenuated bacteria/ virus) so that when the same bacteria or virus attacks your body again you body Immune system can immediately react to the bacteria or virus……thus your body is protected from future attacks

This isn't entirely true: Memory cells DO NOT "prepare a clone of the antigen." Rather, once antigen is encountered by a memory B-cell, the memory cells differentiate (i.e. daughter cells) into more memory B-cells and also into plasma cells. The function of the plasma cells is to produce antibodies (again, NOT "a clone of the antigen") that recognize the particular antigen that the memory B-cell first encountered. Additionally, the memory cell is specific for only one given antigen (or perhaps antigens that are nearly identical, depending on the 7-11 amino acids that the cell's antibodies recognize).

Another point that should be brought up is the fact that once your immune system is fully developed (~2 years old, I believe), your body then has it's entire repertoire of antigen-specificity. Through V-D-J rearrangements and clonal selection during development, the ability to recognize millions of different antigens occurs. So, giving someone an immunization doesn't "create" immunity; it simply stimulates the immunity that is already there, and therefore it (the immunization) may not even be necessary.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by ICGerms]

[edit on 20-2-2005 by ICGerms]

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Another point that should be brought up is the fact that once your immune system is fully developed (~2 years old, I believe), your body then has it's entire repertoire of antigen-specificity. Through V-D-J rearrangements and clonal selection during development, the ability to recognize millions of different antigens occurs. So, giving someone an immunization doesn't "create" immunity; it simply stimulates the immunity that is already there, and therefore it (the immunization) may not even be necessary. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

this is a debatable topic and a lot has yet to be understood....i believe that the SPECIFICITY for the entire repertoireof the antigen is not possible...had it been so then there had been no need for a memory cell ...,.i think there is AN ALMOST equivalent of the antigen that the MHC2 has identified ...........today many shortcommings of the " clonal selection theory" hav been eltablished

Memory cells DO NOT "prepare a clone of the antigen." Rather, once antigen is encountered by a memory B-cell, the memory cells differentiate (i.e. daughter cells) into more memory B-cells and also into plasma cells

if there is no "clone" rather a" negative copy" of the antigen in the memory cells then how can the Immune system identify the same antigen again since the 2nd expousure


the memory cells differentiate (i.e. daughter cells) into more memory B-cells and also into plasma cells.
memory cells themselves never develop to plasma cells they induce the formation of plasma cells


again, NOT "a clone of the antigen")
i never said that the plasma cells produce a clone of antigens


I welcome your discussion but will be happy to stay away from debate.

Some of the people that are vaccinated have developed learning disabilities, health problems, and prone to seizure. I have never been vaccinated in my life, and I have a better immune system than most people I know who have been vaccinated.

Originally posted by prelude
this is a debatable topic and a lot has yet to be understood....i believe that the SPECIFICITY for the entire repertoireof the antigen is not possible...had it been so then there had been no need for a memory cell ...,.i think there is AN ALMOST equivalent of the antigen that the MHC2 has identified ...........today many shortcommings of the " clonal selection theory" hav been eltablished

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. VDJ rearrangements occur prior to clonal selection.

Originally posted by prelude
if there is no "clone" rather a" negative copy" of the antigen in the memory cells then how can the Immune system identify the same antigen again since the 2nd expousure

The ANTIGEN is not cloned (why would your body want MORE of the pathogenic protein?)...the cells that recognize the antigen are cloned. Perhaps I didn't state it as clearly as I had hoped in my first post.

Originally posted by prelude
memory cells themselves never develop to plasma cells they induce the formation of plasma cells

That's what I said..or at least what I was attempting to say . "daughter cells" implies progeny, not the transformation of one cell type into another.

Originally posted by prelude
i never said that the plasma cells produce a clone of antigens

Yes you did...the following is copied and pasted directly from your post...
"...this work of defense is carried out by T lymphocytes and B lymphocytes apart from destroying the organism these T and B lymphocytes has a special subclass called MEMORY CELLS these cells prepare a clone of the antigen (the attenuated bacteria/ virus)..."

Originally posted by prelude
I welcome your discussion but will be happy to stay away from debate.

Sounds like a good idea to me

[edit on 24-3-2005 by ICGerms]

Originally posted by Kushi_Master
Some of the people that are vaccinated have developed learning disabilities, health problems, and prone to seizure...

There isn't proof that the vaccines caused the problems...HOWEVER, there isn't proof that they didn't either . Also, vaccines contain mercury (thimerosal) and mercury is a KNOWN neurotoxin...not "proof" but highly suggestive.