Stone Age Humans Brought Red Deer to Scotland by Sea

a reply to: Anaana

I didn't know they 'boinged', cheers for that
It might make more sense if there were more land or less sea, whichever may you might think of it and certainly more areas of shallow water. They might not have had to swim as far each time.

a reply to: Caver78

This is something I'm curious about with Red Deer as this is the oldest time this species has been tied to an ancient peoples in a concrete way. It's not too far of a leap to assume something more of import is to be found along these lines.

There's a much older link at Star Carr (Yorkshire) from around 11,000 yrs ago.

Archaeologists unearthed a total 24 red deer headdresses at Star Carr representing around 90 percent of all such known artefacts across early prehistoric Europe. The artefacts are formed from the upper part of a male red deer skull with the antlers attached - the lower jaw and cranial bones having been removed and the frontal bone perforated.

Recreation of headdress

There was a good article today about how one has been recreated, and Spider wrote a good thread about the finds there not too long ago.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Sounds like making them swim beyond 7km is not a great idea.

Unless you want to get rid of the weak, old and most of the young.

If they made the "choice" to swim based on there being certain death to all other sides because there is a fire (it's impossible not to bring "Bambi" to mind) or some other natural disaster threatening them, then, well, that is how natural selection works. The strong and perhaps, the cunning, survive. But, nature has other ways too, the small can get carried by currents, or clamber onto floats, and drift to safety, surviving simply by going with the flow.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
And how are you gonna force them into the water? Usually an animal will know where to swim to get to land before it gives out.

Forcing them into the water would be no easier than forcing them onto a boat, my only argument against the boat is that it would risk more human life than driving them through the water would. Either way, the method would be corralling I would presume and it would be labour intensive.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Getting them into open water would be harder than getting them into a dry barge.

Getting them into an enclosed space stinking of their predators doesn't sound easier to me. Driving them into open water, providing the sustained illusion of an escape corridor, however perilous, enables the animal to believe it is fleeing. That some would be lost in the endeavour might be half the point.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Then again, I'm not familiar with the animal and their behaviors.

Nor do I, but I do know that there is a vast difference between a wild and even a semi-domesticated animal. Getting a herd of domesticated cows or sheep to board a ship is relatively easy. They have been selectively bred over multiple generations for compliancy and docility. If they got Red Deer to board a boat then I suspect that that points to an otherwise unknown domestication event, which given the economic importance of Red Deer processing to the hunter-gatherer communities of Europe, that would not be too shocking.

a reply to: beansidhe

More OT....which is the way these things go. Cross your fingers, if you get lucky and all the planets align...


I googled Starr Carr and also found this wonderful, unknown to me, publication.
sites.google.com...

Admittedly not being in academic circles, I'm sure this is old news to some. But for some of us armchair nebbishes this is a wealth of information to savor.
( happy dance! happy-dance!)

I went thru the different volumes trolling for things that interest me. March 2008 #19 had some great book reviews!!
Just say'n

a reply to: Caver78

Excellent link, thank you!

I have been similarly trawling...I have two left-feet though, so I stick to air punches