FDNY Chiefs KNEW WTC 2, 1 and 7 would FAIL

a reply to: JanAmosComenius

This one is much better. Actual tests starts at 6:00 mark.

The sides are too rigid to valid.
You need to sever half the side support.
Calculate the weight carrying ability for each floor.
Then place a weight proportional to the aircraft on one floor in the center.
Finally set the whole thing on fire.

Then you might be getting close.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: JanAmosComenius

This one is much better. Actual tests starts at 6:00 mark.

The sides are too rigid to valid.
You need to sever half the side support.
Calculate the weight carrying ability for each floor.
Then place a weight proportional to the aircraft on one floor in the center.
Finally set the whole thing on fire.

Then you might be getting close.

And that is exactly what is done in subsequent tests: Facade supports (only supports) are replaced by office paper rings with two matches (paper only was not enough). In second test he sets paper rings on fire and in last test he uses firecrackers to remove rings - and it is only test similar to what you can see in WTC collapse videos.

BTW video presenter is professional in building real world scale models. He explain this and some theoretical background in first 6 mins of video.

originally posted by: Psychonautics

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: hellobruce

If you really don't understand the point he's making with that simple demonstration, then you certainly shouldn't be criticising him for it.

We get the point, it's just an embarrassingly crude, barely relatable and ultimately silly way to make it.

And yet still thousands of times more in reality than the stories you care to believe.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Well someones been busy

A little too busy.

Its such a shame because this thread is just too long, most members are not going to bother reading the whole thing (i will admit to this myself), let alone go though all the links an watch all the videos.

Now i myself have written quite a few long threads but dude, seriously can you not start condensing some of this stuff or breaking it down into individual threads.

Ya man, because piling evidence upon other evidence always makes the case harder to swallow, for those who are religious in their beliefs that these buildings exploded into talcum powder because "planes".

a reply to: LaBTop

You knocked it out of the park so far, these people want to go back in the dugout and that is why they have so many stars besides them.

You can hear the crickets in the minds as they basically said nothing and starred each other.

Perhaps this is the best overall thread brimming with so obvious and easy to see FACTS.......

The time is coming, and soon, and they know it......................

I'm no shill for ANYTHING, and have my share of experience in structural engineering. imo, the impact of loaded aircraft at-speed, plus the resulting fires could have brought 1&2 down exactly how it was observed. That's my super-amateur-common-sense response.

Nothing more to add, except that we are in the waning stages of 9/11 conspiracys being relevant.

a reply to: ParasuvO

You knocked it out of the park so far, these people want to go back in the dugout and that is why they have so many stars besides them.

You can hear the crickets in the minds as they basically said nothing and starred each other.

LAbtop has no degree in what he posts about.
The experts have spoken on each of his subjects.
So in effect he's the best quarterback in the peewee league.
You can believe him but the world does not.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: JanAmosComenius

This one is much better. Actual tests starts at 6:00 mark.

The sides are too rigid to valid.
You need to sever half the side support.
Calculate the weight carrying ability for each floor.
Then place a weight proportional to the aircraft on one floor in the center.
Finally set the whole thing on fire.

I would like to try and determine a weight that could be used for that
experiment. How much weight would you suppose was involved in making
the structure fail?.....

youtu.be... ( From Skyeagle)

Not much left..........

Thanks go to Joel van der Reijden for collecting these :
=== 9/11: Explosion sound #1 collapse South Tower (WTC) :
www.youtube.com...
youtu.be...


=== 9/11: Explosion sound #2 collapse South Tower (WTC)
Note the location of the camera and the speed of sound at sea level, 340.29 m/s :
www.youtube.com...
youtu.be...


=== 9/11: Explosion sound #3 collapse South Tower (WTC)
Keep sound delay in mind, camera is far away, thus the explosion sounds were happening a few seconds before you see the blooming dust effects :
www.youtube.com...
youtu.be...


=== 9/11: Explosion sound #4 collapse South Tower (WTC)
Note distance and sound delay again.
www.youtube.com...
youtu.be...


=== 9/11: Explosion sound #5 collapse North Tower (WTC)
Note distance and sound delay.!
www.youtube.com...
youtu.be...


=== 9/11: Explosion sound #6 collapse South Tower - Sorensen (WTC)
Filmed from an open window some hundreds of meters away from that tower. Again, the sound delay included means that those sounds were in fact one to two seconds earlier occurring, in fact before you SEE the tower beginning to collapse.
www.youtube.com...
youtu.be...

To firefighters posting here.

If you want to hear the same details, but more explicit, from some other source than me, this 42:09 minutes long video documentary is a very chilling one.
It's tough to follow up until at the 14th minute, but then it gets increasingly interesting, you hear f.ex. the name of the former Egyptian Army major and then FBI-mole (and shortly see him) who was pressed to deliver real explosives to the 1993 Arab bombers, by his FBI handlers. So he taped his telephone conversations with them to protect him from them later...In any other country than the USA, this news would have filled all newspapers and would have ended the careers of many involved.
Not in the USA, there this news got hidden on the last pages and then died a quick death. Ask yourselves again, who really controls the news.

You really have to use the pause button to get all the little details, later, after you're gonna decide to review this video for a second time again....and a third, and so on. There are many tiny details hidden in this one.

www.youtube.com...


I advice you, as a firefighter, to first start listening and viewing one of your brothers opinions at the 22nd minute in. It starts with short cut-outs of the Barry Jennings interview together with the small firefighter who saved him from the eighth floor in WTC7, on the street after 12 o' clock, then Barry's Loose Change interview cut-out, and then at 23:21 the Michael Hess interview, from years later. Then Hess explains his shouting for help after the South Tower collapse, from out of the, by Barry broken, 89th floor corner window. You see his face in the window and hear the firefighters shout back at him at 24:30.

Now it gets REALLY interesting after 24:30 in the video.

Special Customs agent Joe Webber
was at a staff meeting in WTC6, at 8:45 a.m.,
when the first plane hit the North Tower. Webber then ordered everybody to re-assemble in 7 World Tower, in the Office of Emergency Management at the specially reinforced 23rd floor. By the time they reached WTC7, there was panic and debris raining down on them all over the block.
The doors to the command post on the 23rd floor WERE LOCKED.

Just as Barry Jennings said. Who arrived around 9 o'clock in WTC7, as he said in his last Loose Change interviews.
WTC6 was a low building on the other side of Vesey Street, do you think it cost a few men together with Special Customs agent Joe Webber, all in a damn hurry, 45 long minutes to reach the WTC7's 23rd floor by elevator, in that building on the other side of the street? I don't.
They walked down a few stairs, went over the Plaza bridge to the WTC7 lobby and took an elevator. Let's say it took 15 minutes at most.
Thus, the OEM office was abandoned totally, around 9 o'clock (and 9:15 at most).

You are smart guys, you know what this revelation means. Well, one of your brothers is gonna tell it as it was and still is.
Read first the few firefighters and survivors comments on explosions from 25:10 on, up to 25:33.
Read then the remarks about the Director of OEM, Richard Sheirer at 25:58, (stop the video to read) . He met with mayor Giuliani and then Police commissioner Bernard Kerik (in later years convicted and jailed.!!! ) on Barclay Street behind WTC7, and they decided there, to go to a fire station on West Street to set up an improvised command post.

Are you still with me.?
Why immediately abandon a 30 million dollar renovated and reinforced OEM command post, explicitly constructed for such an event, directly after the first terrorist plane attack.???
Or did these top guys at OEM know about the scenario to be unfolded.?

Now listen to your retired FDNY brother, Jim Riches, at 27:02 in the video, who tells it as it was and still is, at a firefighters and victims families rally, after that "hero" Giuliani had the guts to announce his bid for the US presidency.

Jim : At 9:20 in the morning, 39 minutes before the first tower fell, the South Tower fell, Rudy ran, he ran like a coward, BEFORE the towers fell. He took off and ran with all his commissioners, who supposed to be the leaders. (more from Jim, up to 28:20)

Note that the NIST deciding upper echelons hold up much later times for the evacuation of WTC7 to have been completed, than 9:20.
Just to discredit the Barry Jennings video reports.
The first tower, the South one, collapsed at 9:59 a.m.

At 9:30 a.m. on 9/11/2001, building 7 is said to be completely evacuated.
Proceed viewing up to 29:08 in the video, where you see an FBI agent (really, or disguised?) leading a surviving victim with his cloth teared apart, AWAY from a reporter and his camera man, so they could not ask him too dangerous questions?
You see this same behavior in many other videos, even a FDNY chief is seen to lead a dusty firefighter away from the camera, but that one kept following him...
This has always been seemed very suspicious to me, and many others with me.
The shilling fact is, that it hints to a very broad level of docile compliance through many departments on 9/11. Someone high up must have ordered this kind of secrecy already on 9/11.

There are enough other shilling snippets in the rest of this documentary.

At 34:10 in the video, an attest by Indira Singh, she repeats that the FDNY ordered them by noon or one o'clock to move their triage site up to Pace University a little further away, because Building 7 was going to come down or being brought down .
When asked specifically, she repeats that the fire department did use the words "we're going to have to bring it down."
Listen further for Kevin McPadden's same remarks.

35:26 Flashes seen in building 7 in real time. Then slowed down at 2.49 frames per second.


Title : 911FILES 911 Explosion Clarified NYPD Sam Esposito Sept. 15 7 12 pm.
www.youtube.com...


Up to 2:20 in the video : Another evidential statement that the doors of police offices in WTC7 were already closed at 9 o'clock. He had to pick up some papers there at 9 o'clock, and found the doors closed. Then he explains he couldn't see the South Tower, only the North Tower with the antenna on top, he also did not understand at the time, that the South Tower fell, since he couldn't see it, only hear it happen. He then says they ran and ducked away around a corner of Vesey Street, in a car garage door.

WTC 7 Solid Implosion Evidence :
www.youtube.com...


An excerpt from the excellent documentary "911 Eyewitness" which was made from the coverage of the whole day events of 9/11/2001, video-filmed by Siegel from two piers on the other side of the Hudson River.
The editors are examining acoustic and visual evidence of the EXPLOSIVE events in Manhattan on September 11, 2001, especially in this case the WTC7 collapse.
They compare an animation of a free falling iron ball with the speed of fall of 100 meters of the WTC7 height. There's no difference to be observed, just as David Chandler later proved to NIST, who then did their calculations and came even closer to the speed of fall in a vacuum. In other words, free fall acceleration.

I finally found the other FOIA released, longer video with the WTC7 collapse near the end.
Video Source: NIST Cumulus FOIA release #13 CBS Dub 7 Clips 46 - 48.
This FOIA released CBS video is 9:25 minutes long.
We see and hear during the first 7:25 minutes a stable WTC7, then at 7:25 the east penthouse starts to collapse (NIST time-stamped that Cianca photo as 5:20:46 p.m., view that photo in my next thread-link's opening post), directly followed by the west penthouse- and global collapse.
No discernible failure or explosion sounds in this FOIA version to be heard.

Title : WTC 7 Demolition - Westside Highway CBS Camera Angle (CBS-Net_Dub7_47) :
www.youtube.com...

Original files SOURCE Dub7_47.

Compare the above first link's video camera its wide-angle view, and its absence of a deep explosive sound, to this next, 0.51 seconds long, more zoomed-in, also FOIA released video (CBS-Net Dub5 09) of the collapse of WTC7, by Charles Ewing Smith.
Note the deep sound at WTC-7, then (at 0:18/0:51 secs) 4 secs pass : a sound-delay based on the speed of sound = 340.29 m/sec, is included :

Title : WTC 7 - HUGE DEEP EXPLOSION (by Charles Ewing Smith, CBS-Net_Dub5_09) :
www.youtube.com...

Original files SOURCE Dub5_09.

And to be on the safe, long term side, three other video links, to the same FOIA-video, with that deep sound at the start :
www.youtube.com...=6s
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
This last video link is the original FOIA version.! Crank up the sound level, use good audio equipment. Nathan Flach's repository link :
xenomorph.s3.amazonaws.com...

It took 8.5 secs from the time of the end of that deep sound , to the start of the global collapse. In that time, you can hear 9 explosions going off in the Ashley Banfield video starting at 2:00/9:58.
And see all 9 go off in its following audio analysis in that video.

See for much more, my opening posts in :
WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved.

From my notes in my below WTC7 seismogram you could conclude that LDEO (and later NIST too) worked 17 secs back from the time-stamp of the arrival of the first -group- of distinct seismic signals at 17:20:50, and then arbitrarily declared 17:20:33 as the start of WTC7's collapse.

NIST, years later, time-stamped the Cianca photo 9 secs too late.
The seismic wave from that by NIST incorrectly time-stamped roof denting event, would arrive 17 secs later in the middle of the 2.25 secs free fall period (free fall as proved by David Chandler).

There's more disturbing facts to be found in my diagram, note my light green LDEO remarks. Then look at my red (NIST) remarks, then at last at my blue remarks.



LDEO declared in 2001 in their hurry to be the first to publish 9/11 seismograms, that the collapse of WTC7 began in Manhattan at 17:20:33.
Thus, that event should have arrived 17 secs later in the LDEO graph at 17:20:50, since they knew from hundreds of other seismic events that already happened 100 years long in Manhattan, that the propagation speed through the upper NY-State crust was 17 km/s, and LDEO was 34 km from Manhattan's WTC site.

Well, that's exactly the start of the writing by a needle on the LDEO-seismogram, of the deep explosion sound in Manhattan at 17:20:33.
In later years, LDEO together with NIST tried to fumble around with the time-stamped data at a sad level, it did not surprise me at all.

Much later NIST published the Cianca photo of the first denting on the roofs, with a time-stamp given by them as 17:20:46, which is 13 seconds later, and not 17 seconds later than their initiation event of 17:20:33, which time-stamp we would expect when they had declared the first roof denting as the onset of the collapse.

BUT NO, they thus have declared in the first DAYS already, another event, 4 seconds earlier, at that time unknown to us simple citizens, as the onset of WTC7's collapse. Which MUST thus have been an event at 17:20:29.
Even 4 seconds earlier than the start of that huge deep sound, heard years later by us in the above FOIA CBS-Net Dub5 09 video. The 17 seconds later writing by the LDEO-seismograph needle of that 17:20:29 event at the LDEO institute shows us that first little hick-up at 17:20:46, which is thus exactly the time-stamp NIST gave on the Cianca photo.

Now realize that Cianca shot his photo in Manhattan in REAL time (17:20:46 says NIST), and everything you see written in that LDEO seismogram as results of events of the WTC7's collapse is THUS situated 17 seconds LATER in that SAME REAL time.

Someone in the NIST team, put there in the first days after 9/11, put on the job to falsify anything (f.ex. the Cianca photo series' time-stamps), to let everything fit in smoothly in their from above ordered timeline-outcomes, did "forget" (he clearly was not a seismologist) about the 17 secs seismic waves delay.

And this infiltrated decision maker clearly thought that the 17:20:46 time-stamp, belonging to that first distinctively different from background-noise, small seismic duo peak, was thus caused by the event that let the east penthouse roof start to dent in the Cianca photo. Their shameless proposal of column 79 failure by thermal expansion, worth just a Big Grin.

And that's why he put that 17:20:46 time in that Cianca photo.
Because if he had realized where that REAL-TIME photographed event would turn up in the WTC7 collapse seismogram, in fact thus 17 secs later at 17:21:03, he would have never printed that 17:20:46 time-stamp on the Cianca photo, and put it in the WTC Final Reports.
Because it became clear to every honest seismologist after I attended them on that famous NIST time-stamped photo by Cianca of that first dent in the roof of the eastern penthouse on the roof of WTC7, that the first huge seismic peak in the WTC7 seismogram in that case thus was depicting an explosive destruction.

And that's why NIST has DELETED EVERY SINGLE SEISMIC STUDY, or any indication of them, they had up on their websites in the years before March 2006.

Directly after I published my first seismic analysis in the last months of 2005 and the first months of 2006 at the now defunct Study of 9/11 website.
I saved most of it in my ATS Sequel thread, which got closed by a staff member here, JBird, for further comments. Luckily he didn't delete it.
And of course Cianca his camera had no atomic clock build-in it.
NIST compared atomic clocked videos shot by the TV-networks with his photos.

I will go post screenshots of my Study of 911 thread, written in 2006 by me, as ATS-photos in this thread. That seems not against the rules here.

Those seismic studies by Kim et al from LDEO had become IR-REPAIRABLE by NIST, since they could not retract their time-stamped Cianca photo, so they optioned for the silent way out.

Ask yourself, why we can't bring back those important 2005/2006 seismic studies from Kim, payed for by NIST, with the WayBackMachine website. Even they were forced to delete them. It had become too dangerous for the official lies, to leave any trails.

REFERENCES.

1. WTC 7 was IMPLODED : irrefutable seismic evidence from LDEO and NIST itself.

2. my SEQUEL thread.

3. Search ATS for : LaBTop seismic

4. Gman at WTC 7 was only getting his fair share.

5. 911FILES Fall 2001 - Prof. Graeme MacQueen presents at the 911 Revisited conference,2012.
29:03 minutes long, up to 16:00 min. : The Aims strain Anthrax WMD attack on America.
Anthrax originated from the laboratories of Ford Detrick, Maryland.
Dr. Bruce Ivins worked on an Anthrax vaccine, and was pointed out at as the lone nut perpetrator. He died a week before being charged with the crime from a self administered injection of Thylonol. How damn convenient...
The other part is about the 156 eyewitnesses of explosions. He shows 2 clips of firemen who saw the cadence of explosions. Zoda and Tardio, and Lemos.
There's a long list of other videos in his Comment section. And the other ones on the right side of the YT-video screen are also interesting enough.

6. wtc7 explosion (Steve Spaks)
Another copy.
At 0:34 / 2:17 the huge explosion noise heard from the direction of WTC7, about 350 meters away.
At the chapel near 209 Broadway, corner Fulton Street (the next one south from Vesey Street). At about 10:28 a.m. to 10:40 a.m. on 9/11, according to Spak. So at, or after the North Tower collapse.

7. Steve Spak Building 7 Footage.
The longest and best shots of a burning WTC7. (11:07 minutes long)
Note this :

brianwesley28 1 year ago :
I find it to be interesting that the most intense of the fires that Steve captured on video, from the side that isn't often seen in other videos, appears to be around floors 11, 12, and 13, which were, according to published sources, leased to the Securities & Exchange Commission. I find that to be quite interesting because National Law Journal states:

"The SEC has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed. Reuters news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency's major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom."

Looks like probable motive, or one of the probable motives, for the fires that occurred at WTC 7. They just happened to occur on floors that would benefit those who would benefit from the loss of those files, who also happen to be quite influential individuals, banks, and corporations. 

If it was arson, was it planned beforehand, or did some took the opportunity at hand.? They had 7 hours to plan and send their disguised arsonists in.
What a beauty of an opportunity to get rid of all those billions worth of lawsuits...

8. WTC 7 - BBC The Third Tower - Conspiracy Files. (58:57 minutes long)
This is the BBC documentary with the Barry Jennings BBC interview in it, which caused the Loose Change crew to decide to publish their last (asked to kept private) interview with Barry, where he seems to say that "both towers were still standing".
However, there's a clear video-edit switch to be observed just before that remark by Barry, so it could have been said by him in another part of the interview.

originally posted by: LaBTop
I will go post screenshots of my Study of 911 thread, written in 2006 by me, as ATS-photos in this thread. That seems not against the rules here.

Those seismic studies by Kim et al from LDEO had become IR-REPAIRABLE by NIST, since they could not retract their time-stamped Cianca photo, so they optioned for the silent way out.

Ask yourself, why we can't bring back those important 2005/2006 seismic studies from Kim, payed for by NIST, with the WayBackMachine website. Even they were forced to delete them. It had become too dangerous for the official lies, to leave any trails.

This is the link to the new thread with my promised rebirth of my WTC 7 seismic thread in 2007 at the now long defunct StudyOf911.com website :

Title : Times on LDEO collapse seismogram of WTC-7, compared to the by NIST time-stamped Cianca 9/11 photo
www.abovetopsecret.com...