FDNY Chiefs KNEW WTC 2, 1 and 7 would FAIL

Well someones been busy

A little too busy.

Its such a shame because this thread is just too long, most members are not going to bother reading the whole thing (i will admit to this myself), let alone go though all the links an watch all the videos.

Now i myself have written quite a few long threads but dude, seriously can you not start condensing some of this stuff or breaking it down into individual threads.

Good job not explaining how the demolition was carried out. Good job burying the 'controlled demo' facade under a ton of seismoscience.

I would expect the difference between the twin towers and building 7 charts were accounted for by how they fell. The twin tower's collapse initiated at the top in a top down, progressive collapse resulting in a larger spike because the debris all hit the ground mostly at the same time, i.e., Thud, producing the large single seismic spike we see for each building.

Whereas building 7 progressive collapse initiated at the bottom of the structure, each floor hitting the ground in succession, spreading the seismic signature out over time. Which we see in the charts provided in the OP.

How that proves demolition by hi explosive isn't made clear at all. Just the spikes are proof enough? Oh and the sounds of explosions recorded that day are all after the planes hit when other sources of explosions such as fuel air explosions in elevator shafts (witnessed), the collapses themselves and after the collapses, from gasoline tanks cooking off and natural gas explosions.

You put much effort into this... I came out after reading it with no new information, just the usual "controlled demolition camp" ideas. There were lots of booms recorded that day, a lot of witnesses said they heard booms, jet fuel can't weaken the structural integrity of a building, and they lied about WTC7.

It's not that I don't appreciate all the effort and evidence, it's just nothing new really.

The only thing I really got out of this was that some firefighters clearly don't even understand how fire works.

" it was like all the oxygen was sucked out...couldn't breathe"

Yeah, uh.... that's what happens when there's a big fire/explosion in an enclosed space, fire needs oxygen and fuel and will use all it needs. Uneducated firefighter is uneducated.

Anyway, why don't you put your efforts towards cracking a conspiracy that no one has touched on six hundred trillion times in the exact same way?

Tell me who killed JFK, or prove we faked the moon landing footage

a reply to: LaBTop

Year before 9/11 attended seminar about building collapse - my instructors were FDNY chief officers. Most of them later
in command on that day.

We were taught to recognize signs of impending building collapse

Among signs - time, If have not made progress in darkening down (extinguishing) fire after 25-30 minutes should anticipate
building may collapse . Smoke pushing out of various openings. Noises = building creaking, snapping, booming sounds
Cracks appearing in building, Windows breaking or popping out of frames, doors not closing or jamming in frames as
building begins to move

North Tower - Deputy Chief Joseph Callan

Oral history - graphics8.nytimes.com...

APPROXIMATELY 40 MINUTES AFTER ARRIVED IN
THE LOBBY MADE DECISION THAT THE BUILDING WAS NO
LONGER SAFE AND THAT WAS BASED ON THE CONDITIONS IN
THE LOBBY LARGE PIECES OF PLASTER FALLING ALL THE 20
FOOT HIGH GLASS PANELS ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE LOBBY
WERE BREAKING THERE WAS OBVIOUS MOVEMENT OF THE
BUILDING AND THAT WAS THE REASON ON THE HANDY TALKY
GAVE THE ORDER FOR ALL FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS TO LEAVE
THE NORTH TOWER
APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES AFTER THAT WE HAD
COLLAPSE OF THE SOUTH TOWER AND WE WERE SORT OF
BLOWN UP AGAINST THE WALL IN THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH
TOWER AND WE GATHERED TOGETHER THOSE OF US WHO WERE
STILL ABLE TO CHIEF PFEIFER GAVE THE ORDER FOR
EVERYBODY MAYDAY FOR EVERYBODY TO LEAVE THE NORTH
TOWER AND WE THEN PROCEEDED TO TRY TO FIND OUR WAY OUT
OF THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER

Order was given to evacuate North Tower about 1/2 hour before collapse . Sadly many did not hear order to leave because
of communication problems

South Tower - EMS Chief John Peruggia

In the lobby of Building 7 of the WTC, EMS Division Chief John Peruggia is in discussion with Fire Department Captain Richard Rotanz and a representative from the Department of Buildings. As Peruggia later describes, “It was brought to my attention, it was believed that the structural damage that was suffered to the [Twin] Towers was quite significant and they were very confident that the building’s stability was compromised and they felt that the North Tower was in danger of a near imminent collapse.” Peruggia grabs EMT Richard Zarrillo and tells him to pass on the message “that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they’re going to collapse.” Zarrillo heads out to the fire command post, situated in front of 3 World Financial, the American Express Building, where he relays this message to several senior firefighters. He says, “OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out.” (OEM is the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management, which has its headquarters in WTC 7.) Fire Chief Pete Ganci’s response is, “who the f___ told you that?” Seconds later, they hear the noise of the South Tower as it collapses. Others also appear to have been aware of the imminent danger. Fire Chief Joseph Pfeifer, who is at the command post in the lobby of the North Tower, says, “Right before the South Tower collapsed, I noticed a lot of people just left the lobby, and I heard we had a crew of all different people, high-level people in government, everybody was gone, almost like they had information that we didn’t have.” He says some of them are moving to a new command post across the street.

WTC 7 - sites.google.com...

Read all the quotes from the FDNY chiefs on scene concerning WTC 7 . After initial search of building revealed considerable
structural damage , fires on multiple floors and no water to fight the spreading fires decision made to abandon WTC 7

Surveyor transit was set to watch building - by 2:30 could see growing bulge on SW corner and the building was moving

Decision made to establish collapse zone around WTC 7

I heard this 6 months after 9/11 at seminar - listened to the FDNY incident commanders describe operations

Dont need your BS "analysis" as have heard it directly from the FDNY commanders.............

originally posted by: LaBTop
Those Chiefs knew, shortly before both Tower collapses, that something went terribly wrong with these two high-rise buildings.

Yes, you seem to have missed the fact that they were hit by high speed jet airliners....

And of course those Fire Dept. N.Y. Chiefs were right, with their later on assessments, that WTC7 was in danger of collapse,

Yes, that is their job....

since from the time of the second tower collapse on, WTC7 was deliberately weakened,

Zero evidence for that silly claim.

Nothing new, just a rehash of your usual 9/11 crap, all the time ignoring the evidence.

Wait.

You mean people who are trained in dealing with fires, high angle rescue, search and rescue, etc knew that they were fighting a losing battle and what the result of that losing battle would be?

Wow. This just blows the doors of 9/11, doesn't it?

If anyone still denies that 9/11 was an induced collapse (all three bldgs.) im afraid theres no evidence that will convince them otherwise, no matter how conclusive it is....
People are clinging to their denial out of pure fear their world is and never was what they have perceived.
Its all psychological and nothing to do with facts....
That's the problem, The adamant denial of facts.....the willful blindness to reality.....
These people deny the absolute laws of physics to cling to their misperceptions of the world around them,because if they admit the facts the conclusions are too immense for their "comfort zone" and they wont go there even if they were being herded into Fema camps....they are like the Jews of ww2 Germany....................

originally posted by: bandersnatch
If anyone still denies that 9/11 was an induced collapse (all three bldgs.) im afraid theres no evidence that will convince them otherwise, no matter how conclusive it is....
People are clinging to their denial out of pure fear their world is and never was what they have perceived.
Its all psychological and nothing to do with facts....
That's the problem, The adamant denial of facts.....the willful blindness to reality.....
These people deny the absolute laws of physics to cling to their misperceptions of the world around them,because if they admit the facts the conclusions are too immense for their "comfort zone" and they wont go there even if they were being herded into Fema camps....they are like the Jews of ww2 Germany....................

No, we aren't. Not believing in the controlled demolition theory does not make us all complacent sheep who are to scared to pull the wool from over our eyes.

This is one of the fallacies that helps truthers feel better about themselves. "Oh they're all sheep, they're all ignorance is bliss."

I believe our government had knowledge of the hijackings and allowed them to happen as a catalyst, not unlike Pearl Harbor. 9/11 was clearly not a cut and dry event, but the buildings were not brought down by a controlled demolition.

Not believing in the controlled demolitions and believing something sketchy happened are not mutually exclusive.

originally posted by: bandersnatch
The adamant denial of facts
.....the willful blindness to reality.....

Actually, that would be the people making up all the conspiracy theories.

These people deny the absolute laws of physics

Again, it is those who make up silly conspiracy theories that deny physics - remember, this is the quality of their research!

a reply to: hellobruce

If you really don't understand the point he's making with that simple demonstration, then you certainly shouldn't be criticising him for it.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: hellobruce

If you really don't understand the point he's making with that simple demonstration, then you certainly shouldn't be criticising him for it.

We get the point, it's just an embarrassingly crude, barely relatable and ultimately silly way to make it.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: hellobruce

If you really don't understand the point he's making with that simple demonstration, then you certainly shouldn't be criticising him for it.

We laugh at box boy Gage for his comparing WTC to cardboard boxes.
He wants gullible people to believe the top section is a rigid structure.

It will be nice when he retires and his web site goes dark.

Also if the government is trying to cover up 911 why are they letting Gage run his dog and pony show ?
Could it be that Gage is so far off the mark on his claims it bears no resemblance to their cover up ?

cool...I knew they did it...no debunk mean nothing.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Well someones been busy

A little too busy.

Its such a shame because this thread is just too long, most members are not going to bother reading the whole thing (i will admit to this myself), let alone go though all the links an watch all the videos.

Now i myself have written quite a few long threads but dude, seriously can you not start condensing some of this stuff or breaking it down into individual threads.

I would have thought that sort of advice should come from one or more of the 'three amigos' don't you think?
In any case, I have seen already, and looked through much of the footage shown, and I dare say so have many others here.
Anyone who has seen and studied the roving cameraman's footage, and that of Barry Jennings, and the newsroom linked interview with the man he was with, Michael Hess will understand that Mr Jennings R.I.P. was honest and correct in his recorded statements. The two men were trapped, and by a blast from below, and before WTC1 came down. The source and the rationale for that blast is open for anybody to speculate on, but that there was a blast, is glaringly obvious.

From that point of view, it doesn't matter that WTC7 did eventually come down in any which way, or why even, just that a blast occurred, in the way that Mr Jennings described it. So no kudos to the BBC faction, and perhaps a certain producer there that tried and failed to discredit him.
Thing is, this is something that just won't go away...right?

originally posted by: LaBTop
[1.]

And the immense magnitude should even increase a bit, since increasingly more mass would impact still intact core columns.

So your claiming that falling debris will fall onto the core columns and NOT the floors?


I'm calling bs right there.....

LDEO explained in their one week later published seismic reports, that they also recorded many quarry explosions, which were comparable in magnitude with the Tower collapses.

Ask yourself one crucial thing.
Then, why did they never publish those quarry explosions seismograms, so we could compare them with the collapses. .

This is also bs.

Let's examine your claim:

You are suggesting that the seismic guys are lying about the graphs and what they indicate, and yet didn't "doctor up" a few graphs to support their lies......

This fails the critical thinking test.

If they're gonna lie about what the seismic chart says, then they're gonna doctor it up to agree with their statements.

And what I can tell from a quick scan of your other posts that start the thread, the same can be said of every point you bring up.

But feel free to carry on with your "alternative view" on things.

It's quite entertaining.

I remember back then a friend of me did ICT work for a company in Belgium, something with monitoring servers that where hooked up to servers at WTC.

His job was monitoring those servers and on 9/11 he noticed that many company's where massively downloading backups hours before and until the attack and he did not know why... he never found out because he had no job to go to the next day.

First time for me to write about it, maybe he did somewhere, have not seen him in years...

a reply to: hellobruce

Rightly done real world scaled models are often more explaining than mathematical models (degraded by discreet nature of present time computing).
While I agree Gage's presentation is really bad presentation, the argument is still valid.

This one is much better. Actual tests starts at 6:00 mark.

originally posted by: laurentius
I remember back then a friend of me did ICT work for a company in Belgium, something with monitoring servers that where hooked up to servers at WTC.

His job was monitoring those servers and on 9/11 he noticed that many company's where massively downloading backups hours before and until the attack and he did not know why... he never found out because he had no job to go to the next day.

First time for me to write about it, maybe he did somewhere, have not seen him in years...

Logs of backup procedures from say 8.10 till 9.11 would say a lot.

The day after the event he got fired, like many people back then because of the global chaos.
It is logic that he could not get the logs, he was jobless, had to give up his security pass, server accounts closed.
At the moment of the event it was chaos in the monitoring room, there was no time for printing out classified documents or upload them.
I think after 15 years it is impossible to get those logs, I don't know the company he worked for.

He was a honest person, would not lie about that, he wanted the logs too but could no longer login from home.

After so many years and all the conspiracy around 9/11, I think what he said to me fits in the theory.