We want REASONS for God!!!!!

a reply to: Akragon

So God not stopping people from killing each other is condoning it? Where's that human morality judgement you so easily place at God's feet? Isn't it man's fault for killing man?

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

Again. You give reasons and motive for human actions to a being that supposedly created everything. Human nature is not God's nature. You attesting that it is and then condemning it doesn't make it true.

that is the typical arguement... We don't know Gods nature... HE's God he can do what he wants

Though its pretty sad when a pathetic human's morality is superior to something that considers itself God

An entity that is against "murder" unless it suits his own purposes...

All hail...

it seems strange how gnosticism precludes common sense

Do you want to see ISIS/terrorism stopped, how do you propose that, give them all a rug, cooky and a hot chocolate and watch astro boy together

If Israel got an army together tomorrow and destroyed, wiped all ISIS out...

1. Still doesn't ascribe them to God.
2. As we interpret morality from our views.

Questions for God, I see. You're still searching. Okay, well it seems our understanding changes with age. After a few decades you can look back and see a pattern and come to an overall understanding, the other odd events not so clear left in limbo as a mystery, but then I'm only 55 years old give me a few years and I'll be able to see the pattern hopefully. So I would say it depends on your age, the secrets of the soul. To find your answers ask a really old person that has spent a lifetime searching for the same answers you are looking for.



STM

Have a great life everyone.

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

So God not stopping people from killing each other is condoning it? Where's that human morality judgement you so easily place at God's feet? Isn't it man's fault for killing man?

Why would he stop them when he supposedly told them to go on this killing spree?

I mean this god does tend to contradict himself... but thats just silly

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

If they say yes,which is the honest answer based upon the 3 questions, then they have demonstrated
that it's impossible to know *ANYTHING" about God at all.

How so? Just because they acknowledge they have no way of knowing if they are being lied to by their God, doen't make up the "ALL" of what they KNOW of or from HIM.

They know they have felt HIS love, HIS presence or Spirit, both of which does not make HIM a liar.

I don't believe our Infinite Creator is a teller of untruths simply because, who would know? Why would he waste even an infintessimally brief millisecond of HIS divine time to lie to anyone, except, maybe to some malevolence and in order to protect HIS most precious love. Us.

a reply to: Vector99

what makes our (christian) choice correct, its our choice
what makes any of your choices correct, what will ever make your choices correct apart from hindsight

Do you propose to deny our choice, are we subject to you and others choice

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

The moral argument, as many posters have already pointed out, is untenable.

The two philosophical arguments can and have been debunked so many times that it is absurd to bring them up again.

There is no historical evidence of the existence of any god.

Sorry, but if you want grounds for your belief in God you'll have to rely on faith. Which is what Christians are supposed to do anyway.

What a shame some people's faith is so weak they need to reassure themselves by confronting and arguing with others.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Its interesting how people claim morality and immorality from their own perspective, sort of like they think their opinion invalidates Gods
Maybe they are the ones without a clue

What's interesting is how people claim morality and immorality come from outside their own perspective, as if anyone of us knows what another perspective is even like in the first place. Our entire existence is through our own perspective. If it wasn't we'd be someone else. But we're not. I am me and you are you and everyone is themselves.

So any other perspective other than your own is off limits to you. So if your morality isn't your own then basically what you're saying is you simply don't have any morals nor any ability to comprehend them. This is the reason you must follow the morals as defined in a book. Because without someone writing them down for you to follow you'd have no clue how to act. Morality, either good or bad would just not exist for you.

2. Kalam Cosmological Argument (something that had a beginning must have had a causeless cause)

Energy is beginningless and endless and the universe is nothing but energy set to different vibrations. String theory is in the process of proving (or disproving) that the universe is made up of "strings" of energy that vibrate in order for the universe to exist.

If energy cannot be created or destroyed and the universe is purely energy vibrating at different frequencies then the universe would not need a creator in order for it to exist because it has always existed.

The Christian God or any other religious God is not needed because the universe is causeless because of its eternal nature.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Vector99

what makes our (christian) choice correct, its our choice
what makes any of your choices correct, what will ever make your choices correct apart from hindsight

Do you propose to deny our choice, are we subject to you and others choice

I have no issues with your beliefs or choices. I just asked what makes them the right one? There are hundreds of gods to choose from.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

So God not stopping people from killing each other is condoning it? Where's that human morality judgement you so easily place at God's feet? Isn't it man's fault for killing man?

Why would he stop them when he supposedly told them to go on this killing spree?

I mean this god does tend to contradict himself... but thats just silly

again, you make this about what it isnt, you
your argument is invalid, you condemn what you dont understand and from your tiny little perspective.

God doesnt contradict, sin equals death, sin always equals death, there is no escape from death.
A time is coming when the world we be judged again and even more death is coming, Revelations makes that clear
Of course you deny everything that doesnt agree with your belief.

It ends the same way it started, sin equals death
sinless man Adam, sins brings death, death of the perfect man Christ, causes death to sin and death

Just waiting for the final trumpet to herald the new kingdom

a reply to: Raggedyman

Sorry dude... i don't argue with children

Go back to your Monkey's and fish thread and leave the debates to the adults

thanks

originally posted by: mOjOm


What's interesting is how people claim morality and immorality come from outside their own perspective, as if anyone of us knows what another perspective is even like in the first place. Our entire existence is through our own perspective. If it wasn't we'd be someone else. But we're not. I am me and you are you and everyone is themselves.

So any other perspective other than your own is off limits to you. So if your morality isn't your own then basically what you're saying is you simply don't have any morals nor any ability to comprehend them. This is the reason you must follow the morals as defined in a book. Because without someone writing them down for you to follow you'd have no clue how to act. Morality, either good or bad would just not exist for you.

I think you will find I have suggested morality is internal, its also external
Personal morality can be corrupted as can external morality, by sin, by human desires

a reply to: Akragon

I do

Thats why I enjoy your banter

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Vector99

what makes our (christian) choice correct, its our choice
what makes any of your choices correct, what will ever make your choices correct apart from hindsight

Do you propose to deny our choice, are we subject to you and others choice

You're actually right about that. The reason "Your Morals" are correct is because "You chose them". You know what that's called??? Subjective Morality. Choosing one's own morals that are correct for them based upon their own Reasoning. Welcome to the club.

Oddly, that same Subjective Morality is what you keep complaining about when others do it. You know what they call that???

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Vector99

what makes our (christian) choice correct, its our choice
what makes any of your choices correct, what will ever make your choices correct apart from hindsight

Do you propose to deny our choice, are we subject to you and others choice

I have no issues with your beliefs or choices. I just asked what makes them the right one? There are hundreds of gods to choose from.

Then the answer is simple, its our choice, we have made a conscious, hopefully learned decision based on all the facts, be they faith based or material

There are hundreds of gods, maybe millions. Christians chose the most unprobable, the God who went like a lamb to slaughter, preaching love, even on the cross.
Yep, it sounds like a foolish choice I agree

I mean really, Thor seems cooler

a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm not clear one what you mean by internal and external morality. Objective and subjective I understand. Relative and Absolute I would also understand.

Internal I'm assuming you mean someone's personal choice. External I suppose could mean some other persons moral choices which they've communicated to you in some way.

Would those assumptions be correct??

originally posted by: mOjOm

You're actually right about that. The reason "Your Morals" are correct is because "You chose them". You know what that's called??? Subjective Morality. Choosing one's own morals that are correct for them based upon their own Reasoning. Welcome to the club.

Oddly, that same Subjective Morality is what you keep complaining about when others do it. You know what they call that???

Sorry for the confusion.
I was replying to a post about why christians choose their God and what made that choice correct, nothing related to morals.

Christians have a very clear and well written moral standard in the texts
Not even remotely subjective or remotely easy, its called love

Wrong tree, the possums not up here

We want reasons for God? because looking at the state the world and humanity is in today there clearly is no God in charge of anything. (If he has the attributes the religious claim he has).

I don't see where any argument that a God exists whom has affected humanity is tenable simply because God hasn't affected the evolvement of every other species on this planet. Why in the planet's extraordinary long life should he suddenly pop up and start interfering after X billion years with just this one species - us???