Was Camelot in the Italian region of Tuscany?

Well yes, according with this article.

One of the most famous English legends is that of King Arthur and the sword in the stone. According to the various versions of the story, the sword could only be pulled out of the stone by the true king of England. A similar, though much less well-known, story can be found in the Italian region of Tuscany, and has even been suggested by some as the inspiration for the English legend. This is the sword in the stone of San Galgano.

San Galgano is reported to be the first saint whose canonisation was conducted through a formal process by the Church. Consequently, much of the San Galgano’s life is known through the documents of this canonisation process, which was carried out in 1185, just a few years after his death. Furthermore, there are also a number of works written by later authors about the saint’s life.

The Legendary Sword in the Stone of San Galgano


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When San Galgano reached the top of Montesiepi, the voice spoke again, commanding him to renounce all his worldly desires. San Galgano, however, objected, saying that this is as easy as splitting stones with a sword. To prove his point, San Galgano drew his sword, and thrust it into a stone. To the saint’s great amazement, the weapon went through the stone like a hot knife through butter, and has been stuck in the stone ever since.

So the story carried from Italy (under the Pope) to England where they made it into a holy quest for a King?

Go figure. Scratch one fairy tale or two.

I read years ago about Owain Ddantgwyn one of the old kings of Powys.
That had much more resonance with the history of the Saxon invasion than any other such stories.

I suppose most cultures have a great hero who will come back again.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I suppose most cultures have a great hero who will come back again.

But never will because they guard that stone carefully, nobody can get close enough to try and pull it. If you snuk into the church, broke the glass case and stole the sword , you'd be arrested.

a reply to: Helenamatias
It's not quite the same theme.
The Arthurian story is apparently one among several legends which rest on a man proving himself by being the one who pulls out a sword or similar.
In this story, the whole point is that the sword cannot be pulled out, and remains in place.
So I think the Italian story may have been influenced by the general legend, but is unlikely to have been the original source.

I always regarded the drawing of a sword from a stone as a description of someone forging a weapon from meteoric iron which was known back then to be the highest quality and would make a sword seem magical.
I think pulling a sword out of a stone was a misunderstanding.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
I always regarded the drawing of a sword from a stone as a description of someone forging a weapon from meteoric iron which was known back then to be the highest quality and would make a sword seem magical.
I think pulling a sword out of a stone was a misunderstanding.

Same here. Imagine an iron sword being used during the Bronze Age. The wieldier would be almost godlike compared to others of the age. Add that to a fair and just leader, and BLAMO a legendary king is born. It's probably a rehashing of an ancient Celtic (or pre-Celtic) myth or maybe even oral history.

a reply to: Helenamatias
This wouldn't be that surprising since the Arthur legend is most likely based on multiple individuals, some of whom were connected to the Roman Empire.

There are about 20 proposed locations of Camelot now, and I must admit, this is the most bizarre one yet.

a reply to: Helenamatias

No it may have been in many places, I like to think that maybe it was in what today is Lancashire in north west england, the hill of Dalton near between the new town of Skelmersdale, the old town of Wigan and the Village of Parbold, there are three hill's, Winter hill being the tallest, Parbold hill being the steepest and Dalton hill having the old village of Dalton just below it's summit and also home to a spectacularly difficult golf course.

From the Elizabethan Beacon at the top of Dalton hill on a clear day the great fertile plain stretching out to the irish sea is visible, in the middle distance once home to the largest fresh water body in the United kingdom by area the great lake of Martin Mere which having been drained for agriculture hundreds of years ago is now only a tiny fraction it's once prodigious size and serves as a wetland wildfowl trust sanctuary but it once spread right to the coast similar to the norfolk broads but larger in it's day this area was drained long ago, once ancient stone cross marked the safe'st route from the village of Bescar near southport to the village of Burscough through the once treacherous marsh were many people had lost there lives over the ages.

Further out to the west lie the city of Liverpool and Birkenhead there port cranes and tower block's stark against the skyline, chester is rarely visible and the welsh mountains beyond that there stone buttress lined against the horizon and on a clear day both the island of Anglesey which was the most sacred place in the Druidic world and the Isle of man are both visible.

This area of England was once regarded as part of Wales and of course there may have been a Romano Britain called Arturius whom likely held the line for a time against the New invaders from accross the sea whom were ravaging Britain at that time.

There are claim's that Tintagel in Cornwall was also another site, the ruin's of a circular hall have been found in Durham and equated with the medieval romance about arthur and the round table and of course there are claims for Avalon having been Glastonbury tor but what if it was indeed in the middle of the old Mere, could the rusting remnant's of arthurs sword still be waiting buried in the earth of what was once the bed of the old lake?.

But no it was not in Italy though story's of magical sword's are common in the ancient and medieval world, one spring's to mind from the Himalaya's.

www.caerleon.net...

The truth is though is that there were probably many king arthurs, many petty warlords trying to fight for peace and there people, both the Normans and the Saxon's of England adopted the story for different reason's, the Normans to led legitimacy to there conquest and the Saxon's and Welsh as a hero against Conqueror's.

a reply to: KSigMason

Aye, as with so many legendary characters, whether they really existed or not, other popular stories were rewritten to become centred around them. So no surprise if some elements of medieval Athurian legend had their origin in Italy.

Like many others... the legend is shrouded... and if revealed is a comedy.

But....
You can receive it from the lady of the lake.
Or you can piece it all together... Like a sword shattered to shards.
Or you can draw it from a rock.

In the end you get made.

Very interesting report. It certainly supports the theory that Le Morte D'Arthur was translated from legends that were French in origin.

Upon thoughtful consideration, I am still more inclined to believe the theory that Sir Thomas Malory crafted Le Morte D'Arthur as an elaborate allegory of the social and political climate of England during his life, using Norman lore as the backdrop for his commentary.

Nice find!

It is said that in Britain's darkest hour King Arthur will return.....I wish he'd hurry up because we're in dire need of him at present!

a reply to: SprocketUK
Good theory although I watched a documentary which said that the story was referring to the way bronze swords were cast in stone molds as they could not be forged like iron swords. This takes the myth back further to the bronze or even copper age !

originally posted by: grumpy64
a reply to: SprocketUK
Good theory although I watched a documentary which said that the story was referring to the way bronze swords were cast in stone molds as they could not be forged like iron swords. This takes the myth back further to the bronze or even copper age !

The trouble with that interpretation is it fails to account for the battles against the Saxon invaders that occurred only after the Roman occupation ceased around 405CE.
I'd still hold that a sword made from meteoric iron in the 5th century would be stronger and hold an edge better than the majority made by smelting ore with the techniques available at that time...It would probably have a higher nickel content and far fewer other impurities that would weaken the final blade structure...

Still, we will probably never know for sure as we are talking about the dark ages here


One of the most surprising things is, perhaps, when you get right down to it, Most modern English people are descended from the very enemies Arthur (a combination of the celtic and latin names for bear - Artos and Ursus). Yet without exception, we all look to those stories and revere him. Some feat, that and perhaps an indication of "his" final victory

originally posted by: Freeborn
It is said that in Britain's darkest hour King Arthur will return.....I wish he'd hurry up because we're in dire need of him at present!

Kinda worrying just how bad things will have to get, isn't it?
Maybe he'll turn up after the remain lot have rigged the euro vote...

King Arthur was 5th-6th century .. so how did someone who lived 600 years later inspire it? We have writings from the 9th century.

originally posted by: Freeborn
It is said that in Britain's darkest hour King Arthur will return.....I wish he'd hurry up because we're in dire need of him at present!

He did, watch The Librarians!