How can we get the majority to focus on the only issue that is relevant? Don't Vote, protest 2016?

Many here are fully aware about the farce of voting power the American people have over Lobbyist and special interest group.

For those that still buy into the vote or die campaign propaganda: average citizens have little or no independent influence


So the point of this thread is not about discussing whether your vote matters or not. I would rather concentrate on what we can do to get back our gov't by bringing focus on the one issue that must be fixed before all others, which is corruption and conflict of interests.

The first strategical error I see being committed , even by those that are aware of the voting farce is that they put focus on the wrong issue.

They allow politics to revolve around the symptoms of corruption that have created industries hated by the masses but loved by the lobbyist such as healthcare,welfare,SS,,jobs,economy,immigration,racism,sexismMedicaid,etc and not corruption and conflict of interests.

The problem with that is that you are in essence discussing the problem of crime with the Mafia and are expecting the Mafia to fix those problems. Sounds silly but that is exactly what the Majority of Americans are doing.

It just makes no sense to discuss healthcare,welfare,SS,Medicaid,etc with congress or politicians as long as they are the ones creating the existing policies and have a conflict of interest to keep those industries broken for the masses but compensating the few that paid for it.

Hence, IMO I don't think nothing will change until we bring corruption to the forefront and stop talking about the same issues that we have talked about for at minimum 5 decades in regards to healthcare,welfare,SS,,jobs,economy,immigration,racism,sexism,Medicaid,etc

So what do you think we can do to encourage/force the MASSES, MSM,GOP,and DNC to get their heads out of their arses and only focus and discuss:

1. Congregational term limits

2. campaign financing reform.

3. Lobbying reform

4. doing away with super-pacs

5. Revolving door between gov't and private sector

6. Transparency


Until we bring focus to those issue nothing will change.

IMO I think we need to create a mass voter protest and temporary put our differences aside and come together on those 6 things that most of us agree on. Then we can join forces as individual democrats,republicans,gay,straight,black,white,religious,atheist,etc and take on the lobbyist and politicians by making some noises.

I know its a fairy tale and unlikely to happen but I see no other options as the MSM,DNC, and GOP, are directly manipulating the masses on which topics should be focused on.




One other thing:

Since that Princeton Study confirms your vote is mostly irrelevant when it comes to the issues maybe their should be focus on getting that study engrained into the masses so they lose their fear of not voting. Then instead of going to the voting booths people go and do a protest march?

I'm truly at a loss, because even discussing this with friends they can't comprehend that until you fix the conflict of interest in DC its pointless to expect them to truly fix anything that THEY CREATED AND ARE BENEFITING FROM?

So what do you think we can or should do to end this cycle of politics and encourage individuals to come together to fight the one true enemy (GOP+DNC+MSM+Congress+Lobbyist) ?

Are you willing to temporarily put your ideals to the side and join up to go up against the MSM,DNC, and GOP?

a reply to: interupt42

So the point of this thread is not about discussing whether your vote matters or not. I would rather concentrate on what we can do to get back our gov't by bringing focus on the one issue that must be fixed before all others, which is corruption and conflict of interests.

Lol, the gubmentt has an answer for that… here, fill out this bunch of forms, pay some fees and wait, they'll get back to you…

a reply to: intrptr

Yes Its obvious that the gov't , DNC,GOP,MSM and lobbyist are not going to help you destroy the kingdom they spent so much money and time to create.

Hence they keep making the forefront political topics ,discussions and debates around healthcare, racism,sexism,SS,Medicaid,Tuition,Economy,foreign matters and everything but the 6 things I listed above.

As long as the masses try to fix the WRONG thing the masses will continue to chase their tail and that is exactly what they want the masses todo . The system isnt broken for them.

So knowing that the gov't , DNC,GOP, and MSM are going to do everything they can to keep focus away from those 6 items : what in the world can we do to get the masses head out of their arses and bring those items to the forefront?

Might be time to start a "don't vote, protest 2016" movement where we can temporary put our differences aside and join forces as individual democrats,republicans,gay,straight,black,white,religious,atheist,etc to protest and demand that the following topics are to be only discussed by the DNC and the GOP?

1. Congregational term limits

2. campaign financing reform.

3. Lobbying reform

4. doing away with super-pacs

5. Revolving door between gov't and private sector

6. Transparency

a reply to: interupt42

You're still "thinking" inside of the box, called the lie that we, humans all over the world, have a free-market economy, delivered by the capitalistic economical system. That is not the case.

THAT is what needs to be exposed first as THE lie out of which all other lies (political and economical) orginate.


Free Market vs. Capitalism - Not The Same Thing:

www.youtube.com...


Capitalism vs. the Free Market | Sheldon Richman:

www.youtube.com...


How Crony Capitalism Corrupts the Free Market | David Stockman:

www.youtube.com...


What Is Anarchism? Noam Chomsky on Capitalism, Socialism, Free Markets (2013):

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Willingly

called the lie that we, humans all over the world, have a free-market economy, delivered by the capitalistic economical system. That is not the case.

Never claimed we had a free market which I'm very aware that we don't. Even the article I posted is callled "Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy"

THAT is what needs to be exposed first as THE lie out of which all other lies (political and economical) orginate.

Corruption and lies go together, The lies are a direct consequence of corruption and conflict of interest between the DNC,GOP,MSM, and lobbyist . Hence why corruption should be issue numero uno.

Until you take away the conflict of interest between our congress and special interest groups with deep pockets you will continue to get lies.


You need to tackle corruption first as it effects everything else even political ideals and other lies.

Great idea but LOL...at the Club bar yesterday evening and the conversation went...I vote republican, doesn't matter who is running or what issues are on the table.
These old guys are part of the problem...they blindly vote party line/ticket.
I walked away...and secretly hoped they got lost before they found the polling place.
Cheers

Why do people keep pushing this "don't vote" crap? Even if you don't believe voting works at the federal level, it absolutely works at the local level. Mayors, city councils, local boards, special elections, etc. It absolutely counts there! Some of those elections are decided by dozens of votes. And I guarantee you virtually all of the country's politicians and powerbrokers will be voting. They just don't want you to vote.

And if you really think your vote won't matter at the State and federal level, vote for 3rd party candidates. I can guarantee you that every Libertarian and Green Party candidate will be thankful for that. I've explained it before, but those parties typically need a certain percentage of cast votes in order to make it on the next ballot, receive matching funds, etc (depends on the district and position they're running for).

... This seriously irks me. Women worked hard to get the right to vote, as did ethnic minorities. My Mom and her siblings were kids when their parents were finally given the right to vote. They openly tell stories of how their mom (my amazing Grandma) took them with her as she went voting for the first time. They also openly describe how the police had to guard them as the hate groups and others within the majority were yelling at them, spitting on them, threatening them, and more. Their mom told them to etch it into their memories so they'll always remember the importance of voting. (note: 2 of their mom's uncles had previously been killed by Klansmen.)

a reply to: interupt42
First, you have to overcome the self-imposed ignorance of the masses. You can lead a horse to water... The status quo is miserably comfortable, and people don't want their lives interrupted with something so trivial as educating themselves, and holding their government accountable for their many crimes against humanity. You're right. It isn't going to happen until more people are starving and homeless, waiting in soup lines, than there are people working. I'm not even surer that would work. It didn't seem to work in the 30's. And people haven't really changed a lot.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: interupt42
First, you have to overcome the self-imposed ignorance of the masses. You can lead a horse to water... The status quo is miserably comfortable, and people don't want their lives interrupted with something so trivial as educating themselves, and holding their government accountable for their many crimes against humanity. You're right. It isn't going to happen until more people are starving and homeless, waiting in soup lines, than there are people working. I'm not even surer that would work. It didn't seem to work in the 30's. And people haven't really changed a lot.

Sad reality and rather frustrating when you see how the masses are chasing their tail and ignoring the real culprit of their issues. Wish I had the answer or people would snap of out it but that doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

... This seriously irks me.

noted.

However, the thread isnt really about voting or no voting or whether it matters as stated, but rather bringing focus to the only issue we need to discuss to fix the current system.

The vote thing was only one of infinite possible methods to bring attention the number 1 issue that is being purposely avoided by the DNC,GOP, and the MSM.

Obviously you wouldn't support the "Don't vote, protest 2016" how about the "Don't Vote for POTUS, protest 2016" than? . lol.

a reply to: interupt42

So knowing that the gov't , DNC,GOP, and MSM are going to do everything they can to keep focus away from those 6 items : what in the world can we do to get the masses head out of their arises and bring those items to the forefront?

I guess its noteworthy to want to fix the world, Personally I think we are here to be in it, not of it, not a product of this world.

Set an example don't, be like all the people engaged with each other on a wider path to destruction, keep your world on your level as close to the possible ideal you can, let the rest of the world go about its business, with out joining in or fighting against it…

my pennies worth

a reply to: enlightenedservant

... This seriously irks me. Women worked hard to get the right to vote, as did ethnic minorities. My Mom and her siblings were kids when their parents were finally given the right to vote. They openly tell stories of how their mom (my amazing Grandma) took them with her as she went voting for the first time. They also openly describe how the police had to guard them as the hate groups and others within the majority were yelling at them, spitting on them, threatening them, and more. Their mom told them to etch it into their memories so they'll always remember the importance of voting. (note: 2 of their mom's uncles had previously been killed by Klansmen.)

This is so right on and important. I wish more people would take the time to educate themselves on 20th century history in this country.

I say vote for third parties and write-ins en masse, and you'll send a message.

originally posted by: interupt42
So what do you think we can do to encourage/force the MASSES, MSM,GOP,and DNC to get their heads out of their arses and only focus and discuss:

"what we can do to force the MASSES"??

What you mean "we," paleface?

You certainly are convinced of your own view of reality, but it sounds awfully elitist to me. And when you start talking about "forcing" people to do things your way, you scare me. How many zealots in history have killed how any millions of people by "forcing" their ideas of "reform" on everyone else?

Further, everything you say is negative. You want "reform," but you don't say what you want to reform TO. And I'm not convinced that whatever your idea of a perfect society is is one I would care to live in. In any case, you haven't articulated what that would look like.

The only solution you have provided here is a vague idea about boycotting voting as a protest. Good luck with that. If that's the only thing you have to present as a solution to work towards whatever it is you want, it's pretty much useless, so I go from being frightened of the lengths to which you will go to "force" your ideas on everyone to knowing you are ineffectual. You won't be changing anything, and if you find a group of like-minded individuals on ATS, they won't be changing anything either.

And the rest of us can count our blessings this is so.

a reply to: interupt42

Never claimed we had a free market which I'm very aware that we don't. Even the article I posted is callled "Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy"

Yes, but not just the USA is an Oligarchy. All western countrys/nations are part of that. No exeption.

Corruption and lies go together, The lies are a direct consequence of corruption and conflict of interest between the DNC,GOP,MSM, and lobbyist . Hence why corruption should be issue numero uno.

Yes, but corruption is the direct result, the outcome of the lie that the currant economical system is a free-market, while it is just not. And only that needs to be exposed properly, scientifically, by economists AND political science. That would do the job. But at the same time it would destroy all so called democrasys, who are just a nice cover for what we realy live in: still in some sort of feudalism.

Until you take away the conflict of interest between our congress and special interest groups with deep pockets you will continue to get lies.

Nobody is living in true real democrasy in the western world anyway. Not to talk about other countrys. THAT is the problem. Democrasy never exsisted on earth longer than a few years in some countries, sadly enough.

You need to tackle corruption first as it effects everything else even political ideals and other lies.

Like I said before, corruption is direct outcome of pretending to be a democrasy, having a free-market economy, while that is just not the case ANYWHERE in the world right now.

That is what we're dealing in here, unfortunatly.

a reply to: intrptr

I guess its noteworthy to want to fix the world, Personally I think we are here to be in it, not of it, not a product of this world.

I agree with you in regards to our purpose and unfortunately I have no expectation to actually fix anything .

However, that doesn't mean that I don't like to discuss the subject and who knows if the unlikely WTF scenerio that something does come from it happens?

Like I said I'm not holding my breath but seeing people distracted by the wrong issues and watching them discussing the same issues over and over for numerous decades with the same result is just too annoying to bare sometimes

a reply to: schuyler

LOL, wow?

You certainly are convinced of your own view of reality, but it sounds awfully elitist to me.

Listing a study suggesting that your vote doesn't matter over money and bringing focus to corruption in DC is me being elitist to you?

And when you start talking about "forcing" people to do things your way, you scare me

I said.

encourage/force

However, I will give you that and perhaps I should have left the force part off eventhough that was not what I was truly meaning but I can see how you derived that.

The only solution you have provided here is a vague idea about boycotting voting as a protest.

The thread wasn't about my solution or solutions, it was to see what others here think on how we can bring focus to the six item I listed above instead of rehashing and focusing on the same topics for the last 5 or more decades.

So what do you think we can do :

a reply to: Willingly

Agreed with most of what you said but I don't see how

"corruption is direct outcome of pretending to be a democrasy"

if you don't have corruption in the first place.

The corruption is what is allowing that illusion of democracy or what ever other political ideal people think they have. Perhaps we are saying the same thing but different ways?

a reply to: interupt42

Sad reality and rather frustrating when you see how the masses are chasing their tail and ignoring the real culprit of their issues.

There are no "masses"!!. There are only people or citizens. The fact that you use that term makes me think you don't know anything about what the "real issue" is. That's why I corrected your assumptions about what makes the corrupt ones corrupt.

Wish I had the answer or people would snap of out it but that doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon.

It can happen anytime soon, when the people are educating themselfs. And it is very easy to expose the lie that the capitalistic economical system is a free-market economy. By the way, it never was. THAT is all one needs to know. And then one can vote for a third party. That would do a lot of good too.

Furthermore, a two party political system is not, in any way even remotely considered as a democratic political system by anybody who is just a tiny little bit honest by having done some research on the matter we talk about right now.

a reply to: interupt42

if you don't have corruption in the first place.

The corruption is what is allowing that illusion of democracy or what ever other political ideal people think they have. Perhaps we are saying the same thing but different ways?

Maybe. But corruption is a result, a consequence of something more profound. And that is: the (corrupt) system itself, in which it can occur that politicians can be "bought" or "fincanced" by those who have the money and the means to do so.