Question About A Painting Titled 'The Conspiracy'

a reply to: Harut

Watching Risk Steve's Europe has enlightened me about old art but I still have nothing about this except look for people in the church at that time that he may have portrayed.

Just a thought. Maybe it helps.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
a reply to: Harut

Watching Risk Steve's Europe has enlightened me about old art but I still have nothing about this except look for people in the church at that time that he may have portrayed.

Just a thought. Maybe it helps.

Thanks for the tip, I did.

Pope Leo XIII was the pope during this painter's time.
And none of the men look like him.


My gut feeling is telling me that he is depicting a historical event from an earlier time in history. (14th-15th century maybe).

Just look at the man in the middle. He doesn't fit in with either groups.
He looks different, just look at his long hair, different hair style.
He looks like a mediator and translator in one.
And the 2 men are having a discussion with the other 2 men on the right.

I recon the left is the Roman Catholic Church just by the looks of their clothes and the place where they are, and the right group of men present a different religion, maybe orthodox something? They look like they don't belong there.

Sorry , I'm not very good in theology. I'm just giving my 2 cents.

a reply to: Harut

The painting is called : The conspiracy

My first question:Which conspiracy is it depicting?

Simple answer from a simple person, who took a few art-classes:

Since a book is right in the middle of the painting, and the title of that painting is The Conspirasy, it's a conspiracy about a book. And because the people in the painting are dressed like rich and/or religious people, also the room indicates a high-level rich and/or religious setting/environment, with christian iconography in the background, it's about the bible.

So...it's a conspirasy about the bible and/or religious scriptures/books.

a reply to: Harut

Possible the Pope isn't in it is because he was out of the loop (plausible deniability and all of that considered) it's the Card's and what not that were part of the conspiracy? Maybe look into those guys?

A big stretch, I realize, both in the reasoning and the research, but what the hell. I threw my opinion out there so might as well go all in.

I think the top letters that look like INS is the Greek version of INRI seen on crosses. The Greek letters are Iota, eta, Sigma...which is sometimes IHS or INS, and the N and S can actually be different in actual Greek. That's why the S looks strange...it is actually the last placement Sigma.

The part you say looks like XR5 might be a version of Chi-Rho. It can be written XPS (with the S written smaller or skewed, but I don't know why the S is written that way. en.m.wikipedia.org... That link mentions XPS


So, if that is the case, INS is just the Greek form of INRI

en.m.wikipedia.org...

And XPS means Christus


Typical cross inscriptions.

a reply to: BarefootInWinter

That's a P?

Well that makes LOADS more sense! Good GOD! Either my eyesight is going funny (It isn't. They are laser accurate, these peepers) or that is a VERY blurry P!

Nice catch!

The person facing away from the painter appears to be wearing the purple toga/cloak of a Roman Emperor. It could possibly be Constantine in the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman Empire, conferring with members of the clergy. The artwork in the back looks like early Christian iconography and the dress is certainly Byzantine in appearance.

a reply to: Harut

its Constantine writing the universal religion


I dont know, just my first 5 second impression


a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yup, my thoughts exactly.

a reply to: tadaman

Which one of them is Constantine?
The guy in the middle?

I have no idea why he seems so important to me, it's not just him holding the book that way and sitting in the middle. It's his whole posture. His whole posture screams authority, the one in charge and the one in the know. 3 of them are looking at him, and the one on the left is listening.

What do you think?

a reply to: Harut

The guy holding the book

He is contemplating the words of the advisers, well one of three wise men. His words seem worrisome to the other two

The man in gold has authority over the book.

EDIT TO ADD:

The one on the far left seems to be a part of the court, an officer more in line with the man whose back is turned, whose words are worrisome.

It could be interpreted as 3 VS 3.

The court official and the man with his back turned, and Constantine..... deciding the fate of the bible, and the two wise men to the right.

Its like the debriefing of Paul. or an infiltrator, trying to share what he has learned, which makes the wise men silent.

The wise men in on the right seem to represent the west and eastern empires.

The betrayer, informer, is speaking about them.

a reply to: tadaman

I agree.
Thanks for your insight.
You, and everyone else.


EDIT TO ADD:

To me the first guy on the left certainly looks like he is serving the man in the dark red robe. That's why I said he seems to be only listening.

a reply to: Harut

The crimson red robe seems to represent the old Rome.

a reply to: Harut
Having a Christian as well as an Oriental setting narrows things down.
I suggest it is set in the Byzantine Empire, which fell in 1453. In other words, not in the painter's own time.
Then he is likely to have been thinking of some sort of conspiracy in secular politics, perhaps involving a change in Emperor.
That gives you a thousand years of political conspiracy to choose from (it is not an accident that "byzantine" has become an adjective meaning "very complicated").
The religious ornamentation would be just the normal background of life in that empire. In any case, it would be the religion of the Greek Orthodox church, not the Roman Catholic church.

a reply to: tadaman

Exactly. Rome is falling. Explains why he is only there with a servant, whereas the other group has 2 equal men.

It's like the man in the red robe is grasping at straws.

Well, this has certainly been interesting. All out of an unknown mysterious painting nonetheless.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So I was correct to say this incident in the picture took place between the 14th and 15 th century....as I stated before.

Thank you for your valuable information.
I'm, still following my gut instinct assuming perhaps one half could represent the Roman Catholic church (left) and the other the Orthodox (right). Agree to disagree. Also adding Constantine to the mix now. We are certainly flying through centuries now. Perhaps the painter had his own message to convey. He might have mixed important historic figures into the same painting on purpose. He did paint this painting without a description. The message and meaning is for us to guess.

Dum dum dum
The plot thickens.

I studied history but only dabbled in art, hence my lack of knowledge. Thank you for filling me in.

a reply to: Harut
Before you get too caught up in the "religious conspiracy" explanations, you need to remember one thing.
This is a nineteenth century painting.
People were not obsessing about religion being a conspiracy in those days.
These men are probably wondering whether they should use poison or a dagger, and whether they can get the army on their side, and which member of the dynasty they should be promoting instead.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I understand you. But for some reason this painter went all the way back just to convey a message. He also has a painting of Delila and Samson. Just saying, this artist was an admirer of the past and its history. Even though later in life he focused on portraits but before that he was inspired to paint this one and the biblical one of Samson. He clearly had a message with this painting.

Alas I lack in the theology department, so I can only read up on these things. I only know history and dabbled in art enough to know, that this painting was showing a discussion about religion, and its future. (Possibly between 14th and 15 th century)

I'm going to rest now, been looking into this all day, and need to give it some rest. I hope you and others can shed some more light into the painting titled La Conspiration.


Good night. Bon nuit.

a reply to: Harut
It appears to depict Emperor Constantine at the Council of Nikaia. The purple/scarlet robe is traditional for the Caesar.

"Resplendent in purple and gold, Constantine made a ceremonial entrance at the opening of the council, probably in early June, but respectfully seated the bishops ahead of himself." As Eusebius described, Constantine "himself proceeded through the midst of the assembly, like some heavenly messenger of God, clothed in raiment which glittered as it were with rays of light, reflecting the glowing radiance of a purple robe, and adorned with the brilliant splendor of gold and precious stones".

The letters appear to be Greek written in the nearest Latin approximation. Sort of like how "CCCP" is actually SSSR in proper Cyrillic pronunciation.

The separation between the four patriarchs may indicate the Arian or Miletian schism.