NEW PRIVACY MENACE: Your Touch Screen Display is NOW a MICROPHONE!

a reply to: StargateSG7

All you're doing is making up conclusions and attempting to fit unrelated information to your narrative. That's not getting people "hyped", it's called BSing.

a reply to: StargateSG7

OK, I get it.

You got told by "someone" who "knows the facts".

Sorry, but we see that plenty on here.

Also, so far you haven't proved your case at all. All you've done is given hyperbole and bad science.

a reply to: StargateSG7

Nothing you cited is relevant to your argument.

originally posted by: StargateSG7


They were bouncing a laser off the embassy windows and
converting the minute vibrations from conversations into
digital audio waveforms.

---

I can even use a high-speed, ultra-high resolution camera to photograph
the minute vibrations of the FURNITURE IN YOUR ROOM as you talk
and convert that minute pixel movement into audio waveforms!

You're sort of conspicuously lacking lasers and ultra high res cameras here. You can't say "I saw this other totally non-related thing, therefore, smart phones can do it too!!!"

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: StargateSG7

No you can't. The vibrations are too small. You would need a larger vibration to recognise anything. The best you would pick up would be what sounded like someone mumbling under a pillow. There would be no recognisable words at all.

Oddly enough, you can do both those things. The laser thing is so ubiquitous in the IC that you generally don't have windows in offices where you're going to be having those sorts of discussions. And some buildings even have a sort of freaky dual-pane setup where they pipe in turbulent air and/or sound between the panes to forestall it.

originally posted by: peppycat
Hope they like listening to me singing to my cat about how wonderful he is!

OMG!! Lol. They would hear me asking Moxy if she has gone to town and done her banking, bringing her pocketbook and concluded her business. Also, if she saw any bad people in the town and yowled at them. She meows back every time I ask a question. I sometimes sing to her too.

The 'meow meow meow' theme from the cat food commercial. Also, I pick her up move her back and forth in the air and sing 'I believe I can fly'. She purrs and drools on me.

If anything was picking that up I would have been taken away some time ago.

a reply to: Bedlam

I thought they just used rippled double pane glass with the ripples going in opposite directions on each pane.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: StargateSG7


They were bouncing a laser off the embassy windows and
converting the minute vibrations from conversations into
digital audio waveforms.

---

I can even use a high-speed, ultra-high resolution camera to photograph
the minute vibrations of the FURNITURE IN YOUR ROOM as you talk
and convert that minute pixel movement into audio waveforms!

You're sort of conspicuously lacking lasers and ultra high res cameras here. You can't say "I saw this other totally non-related thing, therefore, smart phones can do it too!!!"

===

Please do note that smartphones CANNOT record high speed footage
(at least 2000 fps) in order to do visual based micromovement conversion
of vibrating furniture, cheetos bags or glass into audio waveforms.

AND PLEASE DO NOTE my links are meant to INFORM YOU on
just how powerful signal processing is when it comes to
obtaining useable information from pressure waves.
(i.e. acoustic energy)

Those links ABSOLUTELY HAVE NOTHING TO DO
with changing the electrical properties of the
atmosphere NEAR a capacitive touchscreen
to induce spurious noise emissions into
display circuitry which can then be
interpreted by software into a
human-useable form.

NOw for ME to PROVE WHAT I HAVE SAID
would mean I woudl have to disclose a
rather sensitive document which would
THEN cause a source I happen to LIKE
to suddenly DISLIKE being my source!

Ergo, you just have to wait until
I find a public source of a similar
descriptive document which
would SUPPORT my assertations!

I personnally would consult
a person at Sharp, NEC, SONY,
PANASONIC, LG or SAMSUNG
to ASK whether my assertations
are EVEN POSSIBLE.....Let's
just say that while the system
sounds utterly improbable, there
is MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE HERE!

a reply to: GodEmperor

It's a phone, it already has a microphone...

Right? If it didn't have a mic, it would just be a radio receiver.

Silly thread.
Also the OP said... - "YOUR BRAND NEW PHONE!" So, does that mean my "OLD CRAP BROKEN DUMB PHONE" too?

Didn't think so.

The strongly silly is strong and silly with this one.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: StargateSG7

No you can't. The vibrations are too small. You would need a larger vibration to recognise anything. The best you would pick up would be what sounded like someone mumbling under a pillow. There would be no recognisable words at all.

Oddly enough, you can do both those things. The laser thing is so ubiquitous in the IC that you generally don't have windows in offices where you're going to be having those sorts of discussions. And some buildings even have a sort of freaky dual-pane setup where they pipe in turbulent air and/or sound between the panes to forestall it.

===

"...The laser thing is so ubiquitous in the IC that you generally don't have windows in offices where you're going to be having those sorts of discussions. ..."

my response:
IC mean Intelligence Community in case you're all wondering.....

At Langley, VA (CIA) even the outside windows have micro-wires
in them and conductive film to act as EM foils. .... JUST SO YA KNOW!

originally posted by: StargateSG7

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: StargateSG7

No you can't. The vibrations are too small. You would need a larger vibration to recognise anything. The best you would pick up would be what sounded like someone mumbling under a pillow. There would be no recognisable words at all.

Oddly enough, you can do both those things. The laser thing is so ubiquitous in the IC that you generally don't have windows in offices where you're going to be having those sorts of discussions. And some buildings even have a sort of freaky dual-pane setup where they pipe in turbulent air and/or sound between the panes to forestall it.

===

"...The laser thing is so ubiquitous in the IC that you generally don't have windows in offices where you're going to be having those sorts of discussions. ..."

my response:
IC mean Intelligence Community in case you're all wondering.....

At Langley, VA (CIA) even the outside windows have micro-wires
in them and conductive film to act as EM foils. .... JUST SO YA KNOW!

Which, funnily enough, has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with sound waves getting changed to electrical information getting transmitted through your phone.

a reply to: StargateSG7

NOw for ME to PROVE WHAT I HAVE SAID
would mean I woudl have to disclose a
rather sensitive document which would
THEN cause a source I happen to LIKE
to suddenly DISLIKE being my source!

Gasp! Really?!!!!


Why the columnar truncated format there, "bud-with-secret-knowledge" ?

Obvious unclear thinking is obvious. Please provide your sources....

If what you say is true, they already know who you are. See how that works??

Take some deep breaths. You're getting carried away.

There are several problems here.

Changes in air density would cause effects many many orders of magnitude less than a touch, if any effect at all. You wouldn't design to sense such things. If you could get away with an 8 bit ADC, you wouldn't just decide to put in a 14 bit one that can encode uV noise levels for the lulz.

Next, you wouldn't normally use a converter type that can encode at 10k conversions per second for fun, either. Why would you ever need that for a touch screen? So, you've got that against you too.

That alone would be enough, but the touch screen interfaces are generally no 'smarter' than they need to be as well. Why pay for horsepower and storage for an interface that's never going to need it? So you won't have all this magic computational ability either.

And finally, you've got a big fat 'why?' to deal with. Why bother? You HAVE a microphone, and a perfectly good sound processing section. This gets back to the same thing you get from people who are afraid of death beams from satellites. Why bother, when you can just shoot the guy for a billionth of the price? Why over-engineer (or in this case, probably hyper-engineer) a touch screen so that it can be used as an amazingly crappy microphone when you have one sitting right there?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Bedlam

I thought they just used rippled double pane glass with the ripples going in opposite directions on each pane.

They have glass shakers as well, but at least two buildings in the DC area have widely separated panes with VOA or something piped in along with turbulent air.

You can have it whine or hiss, most people prefer hiss. YMMV.

a reply to: StargateSG7

---

Just to illustrate how far people are going to protect
their electronic gear from JUST SUCH A TECHNOLOGY
AS I HAVE DESCRIBED.......

While the below patent is designed to
PHYSICALLY SECURE electrical pathways
from interception there are others I can quote too!

Flying wirebonds for creating a secure cage
for integrated circuits and pathways
US 20140283148 A1

Jared G. Bytheway
Cirque Corporation

Link:
www.google.ch...

A system and method for disposing one or a plurality
of flying sense electrode segments so as to physically
cover integrated circuits, circuit pathways and other
components on at least one circuit board to physically
secure the circuits, pathways and components from
probes or data interception


...AND.....

THIS IS USED FOR scrambling signals between
devices in a point-os-sale system but in terms
of WHY someone does this...M-O-N-E-Y !!!!


System for protecting pin data when using touch capacitive
touch technology on a point-of-sale terminal or an encrypting pin pad device
US 20140253505 A1

Paul Vincent, Keith L. Paulsen, Jared G. Bytheway
Cirque Corporation

See link:
www.google.com...

Abstract

A system and method for providing security for a point-of-sale (POS)
terminal or an encrypting PIN pad (EPP) by protecting the signals
that could be directly probed on a touch sensor electrode grid
or remotely probed such as through power supply signals or
RF emissions, wherein the drive signals are randomly applied
to drive electrodes in order to prevent tracking of drive signals,
and charge is injected on sense lines to hide PIN data.


====

A bit of background on the paper that started all this
talk on using electrode pattern in touchscreens being
a primary driver of touchscreen senitivity and therefore
ALLOW ALL kinds of waveforms to induce electrical
energy in a capacitive touch screen.

An Analysis of Electrode Patterns
in Capacitive Touch Screen Panels
Jeffrey Lee, Matthew T. Cole, Jackson Chi Sun Lai, and Arokia Nathan, Fellow,
IEEE

An Analysis of Electrode Patterns in
Capacitive Touch Screen Panels (PDF Download Available).

See link:
www.researchgate.net...


which will THEN BRING US to this............

a reply to: reldra lol! Took me a couple secs before I realized Moxy must be your cat! Your post cracked me up.

I talk to my Will about his "kitty business'' (mainly territory issues) when he goes out and about too.

If people are listening, I hope they like to listen the cat(and dog) people the best, some of us animal people are probably pretty entertaining.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Bedlam

I thought they just used rippled double pane glass with the ripples going in opposite directions on each pane.

They have glass shakers as well, but at least two buildings in the DC area have widely separated panes with VOA or something piped in along with turbulent air.

You can have it whine or hiss, most people prefer hiss. YMMV.

Nice.

I always remember that any tech meetings we had (when I was working for a local council) we used to have it in the central office. Surrounded by 4 walls in the center of the building. All electronics got left at the door and only 1 encrypted laptop was allowed in the room connected to a TV (non smart).

Can't beat the basics

a reply to: StargateSG7

Citing random patents, that have nothing to do with what you stated in you op, does nothing for proving your op.

originally posted by: Bedlam
There are several problems here.

Changes in air density would cause effects many many orders of magnitude less than a touch, if any effect at all. You wouldn't design to sense such things. If you could get away with an 8 bit ADC, you wouldn't just decide to put in a 14 bit one that can encode uV noise levels for the lulz.

Next, you wouldn't normally use a converter type that can encode at 10k conversions per second for fun, either. Why would you ever need that for a touch screen? So, you've got that against you too.

That alone would be enough, but the touch screen interfaces are generally no 'smarter' than they need to be as well. Why pay for horsepower and storage for an interface that's never going to need it? So you won't have all this magic computational ability either.

And finally, you've got a big fat 'why?' to deal with. Why bother? You HAVE a microphone, and a perfectly good sound processing section. This gets back to the same thing you get from people who are afraid of death beams from satellites. Why bother, when you can just shoot the guy for a billionth of the price? Why over-engineer (or in this case, probably hyper-engineer) a touch screen so that it can be used as an amazingly crappy microphone when you have one sitting right there?

===

I highly doubt air density is what is being detected.
Based upon what I saw in the doc, the microdust in
the air being moved around AND the electrical conductivity
changes within a humid air environment (i.e. water vapour
movement) caused by incoming pressure waves (acoustic energy)
is changing the near-field detection ability of the sensors causing
spurious noise to be emitted into the touch display sensing circuits.

And since most smartphones use SoC or other more
general components, I thing you will find that 8-bits
would NO LONGER be the norm for ADACS but rather
10, 12 or 14 bits be probable format nowadays!

That's means increased sensitivity and BETTER
ability to software DSP the resulting signals.

AS TO WHY THIS IS BEING DONE?

I suspect it was done primarily for display
devices or mobile systems that are installed
in or are present within sensitive locations
such as embassies, capitol buildings
and military contractor offices!

I won't say which! ... ;-) :-)

a reply to: StargateSG7

Sincere question: Are you just copying and pasting some website's content?
Seems pretty 'third-generation-xerox' type stuff.

Not even trying to write original thoughts?

Strange formatting for a human actually typing on a forum.