Missing 411 Thoughts and Possibilities

I have been re-reading the books, and even though this is my second time through, some of the cases just give me chills. I just finished with the case of Trenny Lynn Gibson. She was 16 when she vanished from Great Smoky Mountains National Park in October, 1976. She was on a clearly marked trail, bent down to look at something, took a step to the right, and was never seen again. The interesting thing about this case is that two people saw her stop, look, and step to the right--two people--and she was just...gone...

a reply to: Pillywiggin

Yes that one is very weird. Dogs followed her scent to a highway and then nothing, right?

The one that peaks my interest the most, and I can't remember where or any names, is the one where a small child (female?) went missing and a guy said that he would go and try and get her, if he didn't come back with her, he said that he would be killed (or something to that effect).
I know it was in the Western US and Canada book, and I think it was in Canada. Either Alberta, Saskatchewan, or Manitoba.

It almost seems like he knew who was taking people and that "they" lived on the back edge of his property and as long as he left them alone, they left him alone. I believe he showed up with the child and was worse for wear.

a reply to: superman2012

Yes--two dogs actually picked up her scent, but were unable to track her very far. There is a picture of the area she went missing in the book, and it is not a place where you would leave a clearly marked trail to try walk cross-country. The Betty Wolfrum case was intersting. The neighbor admitted he didn't tell reporters or the parents everything he knew. A second neighbor said that each day for three days, one of his cows had returned from "the bush" milked. This had never happened before. There was never any explanation as to who milked the cows. How weird is that? A random person milking someone else's cows? Another creepy case.

a reply to: Pillywiggin
Thank you for that!
Betty Wolfrum from Moosehorn, Manitoba!



Link to little newspaper blurb about her being back. Interesting to note that she is reported to have said that a man took her...

Here is the actual newspaper story.
Link

I'm not going to pay for it, but if someone wants to they can. lol

a reply to: superman2012

Ok, I signed up because I was too curious...
Enjoy.

a reply to: superman2012
Thank you for your purchase!

Interesting!

a reply to: superman2012

Yes, thank you very much for purchasing the article. It is very interesting--everyone thinking Betty was kidnapped, but no kidnappers ever found. In a county like that, everyone knows everyone else, and strangers stand out. The more you find out about some of these cases, the stranger they become instead of becoming clearer.

a reply to: gmoneystunt

The staircases thing isn't real, though the story seems to have taken on a life of its own. It's all coming from a story posted on /r/nosleep (on Reddit), a horror fiction community done in the Blair Witch "everything here is true" style. Though I very much get the feeling that the writer of the series it comes from is familiar with Paulides' work.

You can read the original story and sequels via the link provided. Great little spooky stories, especially if you're a fan of Missing 411.

a reply to: superman2012

Ah, that one. I've got a theory on that, actually. There was a great deal of immigration from Eastern Europe (specifically, Ukraine) in the early 20th century to the Canadian Prairies. I think the most logical explanation if you read between the lines is human activity, or to be specific, Romani/Gypsies. Bridal kidnapping and child brides are both fairly well-established in Romani tradition, and I think the Occam's Razor explanation is that the man who found her knew of a local Romani encampment and went to check it out.

Oh yeah, and one more thing: if you're into this stuff, I highly recommend listening to Steph Young's interviews on Where Did The Road Go. She gets into some fascinating stuff about suicide clusters, mysterious phenomena in the wilderness, and a bunch of other interrelated things.

a reply to: ShadeWolf

Always blaming the Gypsies!! lol

I have listened to Steph Young's interviews, but I haven't read any of her books yet. Still trying to get through all of DP's books! Thanks!

a reply to: ShadeWolf

That is an interesting theory, and one that I have not heard before. Back in those days it would have been much easier to take a child and create a whole new identity for him/her than it is today.

a reply to: superman2012

There has been a lot of discussion on this tipic, but you have done a good job of listing a lot of possibilities. Nice work, there!

As for what I think; I have all five books, and have read them all. Loved the first ones. The last, not so much. I feel he got away from the topic, and into another one. Those cases might be odd, but I'd rather have seen them in a different series, instead of having them included with the previous books.

For the earlier works, some of the cases are quite intriguing. Some of the patterns one notices while reading through many cases, even with sparse details, are even more so. The number of times people are found, alive or dead, in places already searched, the number of times small children are seen in places even experienced climbers would have a hard time reaching, and the odd reports of a "bear", or "big dog" or "ape people" or whatever being involved - all of these are fascinating! There is a very spooky feel in these accounts as well. Many cases, it seems that some sort of "Bigfoot"-type creature is a likely culprit. Some cases, a child will appear to have been cared for. Other cases, people appear to have been eaten, without, somehow, clothing being chewed. Clothing is often removed, in fact. Bears, cougars, or wolves would not do this.

A few cases, I lean more toward some other explanation. Some seem more likely to be some sort of lake creature, and others ore likely something that can fly. We have that report of the guy (Marlon Lowe) who claims a large bird carried him, and seeing him interviewed, he doesn't look like he's lying. Everything in his demeanor suggests that he's recalling a very traumatic and scary event.

In any case, something odd is happening in at least some of these cases. All considered, I was more than a little disappointed in the last of the Missing 411 books. Was he too close to something real, and perhaps sidetracked? I don't doubt the author's intentions AT ALL, mind you; I just wonder if some case were pushed to get him off the others.

originally posted by: seagull
You might, if you haven't already, look into places, rather than creatures.

All I have is anecdotal evidence, but there are places where Man and all his works are most assuredly not welcome...and they have the ability to enforce their wishes.

I've found two such places in my times outdoors in the wilderness. One is just north of Mt. Adams in Washington state, the other is on the north east slopes of Denali, in Alaska.

If there are two? There are more.

Faerie rings. ...and other names of places where the usual rules seemingly don't apply are a staple of legends from all over the world.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

Don't tease us - details!!

You can't just toss that out and not explain. My head might explode.

Ah, I see you did talk about some of it, excellent! I am quite curious, and not really patient, lol!

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes


As I said in one of my earlier posts, my family seems to attract the strange occurrences...

I'm living with my sister right now while we're getting ready to sell her house prior to relocating, and this house has a ghost. A rather mischievous one who likes to mimic voices. It's rather annoying at 3am...

One of these days I'm going to write down all my strange encounters, post 'em all, and let the skeptics loose on 'em...

I'm not sure what attracts it, the weird stuff, but there are times, I wish I didn't. But most of the time it's really rather cool, in a strange way. Every now and then though...not so much.

But I'm glad you enjoyed the tales.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes


As I said in one of my earlier posts, my family seems to attract the strange occurrences...

I'm living with my sister right now while we're getting ready to sell her house prior to relocating, and this house has a ghost. A rather mischievous one who likes to mimic voices. It's rather annoying at 3am...

One of these days I'm going to write down all my strange encounters, post 'em all, and let the skeptics loose on 'em...

I'm not sure what attracts it, the weird stuff, but there are times, I wish I didn't. But most of the time it's really rather cool, in a strange way. Every now and then though...not so much.

But I'm glad you enjoyed the tales.

I know the feeling! Ghosts just seemed like part of normal life to me, growing up. Uncle and aunt had one that followed them for years. Another aunt, different side of the family, had one. Cousins of my mom lived in a place that was investigated, it was so haunted. Several relatives heard the battle sounds at Chickamauga Battlefield. I have lived in more than one place that had spooks of some sort. Had some other odd encounters as well. Heck, seen some weirdness, too, that wasn't ghost-related! Saw a HUGE vulture once, and something else really weird, that was flying, and a spider bigger than they ought to be.

Maybe I'll start a thread for everyone to share all their stories. Would be great to have people post them all together. Always loved hearing and reading about that sort of thing!!

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Thank you for your kind words!

I also enjoyed the first four books more than the last one and I agree with you, it should have not been included in the missing 411 series just because, although similar, it is in a completely different environment with different possibilities.

I do believe that at first he thought it was a bigfoot type creature that was doing all of this (Les Stroud even admitted as much in a C2C interview), but then he jumped from one arena to the next trying to link them all.

I also believe there has to be more than one reason for the disappearances and lean towards something in a lake for some of them, especially the Stacey Arras (spelling for sure) case where all they found was a lens cap.

I'm sure that there are some in his book that can be attributed to people or people making fatal mistakes in the wilderness, but I believe the majority are caused by something that can't be explained right now. I believe, as of now, that it is some sort of cryptid or strange happenings like at Skinwalker Ranch.

originally posted by: superman2012
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Thank you for your kind words!

I also enjoyed the first four books more than the last one and I agree with you, it should have not been included in the missing 411 series just because, although similar, it is in a completely different environment with different possibilities.

I do believe that at first he thought it was a bigfoot type creature that was doing all of this (Les Stroud even admitted as much in a C2C interview), but then he jumped from one arena to the next trying to link them all.

I really don't understand why he tried to link them that way. Writing about the, sure! There is a market for that, and some of the cases are interesting. Some, I felt, were more likely just drownings, while the person was drunk. When we were in Germany, a club we liked to frequent was close to the river. I know for a fact that some of the younger guys made a game of jumping in. Yes, after drinking. It's a wonder none of them drowned, all considered! If they'd do that deliberately, it's not hard to imagine someone really wasted to fall in by accident, or heck, for all we know, jump in just because.

originally posted by: superman2012
I also believe there has to be more than one reason for the disappearances and lean towards something in a lake for some of them, especially the Stacey Arras (spelling for sure) case where all they found was a lens cap.

I recall one about a woman who hiked off alone, around a lake, and vanished. Not sure of the name, though. A few places, there are even legends of lake creatures. Why he discounts those, I don't know.

originally posted by: superman2012
I'm sure that there are some in his book that can be attributed to people or people making fatal mistakes in the wilderness, but I believe the majority are caused by something that can't be explained right now. I believe, as of now, that it is some sort of cryptid or strange happenings like at Skinwalker Ranch.

Something strange, in many cases, for certain!! Some, we can't know, and I know he included them as part of a cluster, which is reasonable. Some, though, are too strange to ignore.

That ranch........creepy stories, and never can decide what I think about that place!!

I am curious about each victim, as in, did they have any link, directly or otherwise, to the occult.

a reply to: superman2012

This subject is "my bright and shiny object" - I can't quit looking at/for it!

David Paulides research into Missing 411 is what led me to ATS...

I have read all the books excluding the new urban based one about young men vanishing. They all intrigue me, but the story about the little boy (I believe in CA) that actually talked to some guys that were fishing, and then continued on alone...and the only trace they found were his clothes and a small bone on a mountain that he couldn't possibly have reached on foot...freaked me out!

Great thread OP - I can't believe I "missed" it (wink*) the first time around. Big Bump.

Great thread,listened to Coast to Coast for years and heard a lot of this.Personally I think most of these come down to a few suspects.!-animals,cougars and bears can take a small person out and be gone with them in the blink of an eye.2-nutjobs who live off the grid and take a opportunity.3-serial killers-they are out there so one or more could be operating in parks.4-Terrain,sink holes,rivers,getting lost are all easy to die from.Of course I don`t rule out other reasons,but these probably explain most of them.If I ever see one of the Cherokees water cougers,giant snakes,thunderbirds,or little people I will believe then,skeptical till its proven fact.I have been all over the backcountry in Tn,NC,and California,I saw a lot of ways you could get in trouble by natural stuff,never have seen any evidence of supernatural though.The cougar that was 2 seconds behind me to the camper door was enough for me,lol.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
a reply to: superman2012

This subject is "my bright and shiny object" - I can't quit looking at/for it!

David Paulides research into Missing 411 is what led me to ATS...

I have read all the books excluding the new urban based one about young men vanishing. They all intrigue me, but the story about the little boy (I believe in CA) that actually talked to some guys that were fishing, and then continued on alone...and the only trace they found were his clothes and a small bone on a mountain that he couldn't possibly have reached on foot...freaked me out!

Great thread OP - I can't believe I "missed" it (wink*) the first time around. Big Bump.

Thank you! Yes, I believe I have listened to and read most everything about this subject from David Paulides. I like listening to the other stuff too where people talk about him. There was a C2C show with Les Stroud on it and he kind of spilled the beans that DP thought it was Bigfoot at first, at least in the wilderness ones. That is something most of us guessed anyways given his earlier works.