Get all the oil or perish

originally posted by: Toolman18
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Coal and nuclear both use oil to function. How would you build a nuclear plant without oil? You couldn't.

Wait a second, coal doesn't need petroleum. Coal & wood were used in all types of furnaces, and were also used as the heating sources for steam powered machines. You can heat a building and cook with coal, too. None of these uses require petroleum products.

originally posted by: Ohanka
Only nuclear power can end human reliance on murderous sunni tribes in the Middle East.

Only Nuclear power accidents can end humanity as we know it.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So the trains taking coal to the power plants don't use oil? The power lines transporting this power are built without oil? Really?

a reply to: gmoneystunt

But no one has even come close to providing a source that acts like fossil fuels to create energy. A world without these fuels sounds great, it just isn't possible

a reply to: Toolman18

I didn't say provide an alternative source that acts like fossil fuels for energy. I am saying fossil fuels may not be as scarce as you say it is because it may be renewed by inorganic means instead of just it being only created by plant and animal matter. You believe that fossil fuels are extinguishable. I think they are inexhaustible.

originally posted by: gmoneystunt

What if it is replaceable. What if the oil fields replenish themselves.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Oil is not of fossil origin and is inexhaustible

a reply to: Toolman18

I think the big bad guy, is Europe, in this sense. Because the reason Russia, the US and others ... want to control the oil in the middle east, is not because of the oil. But because they want to control Europe.

Europe, is the ONLY area in the world that doesn't have oil. This is why Germany lost in WWII, and the good old statement "Nazis were trying to make a nuclear bomb", is quite unlikely ... as they were probably a lot more busy with trying to find alternative fuels.

Think of it this way, the oil prices hurt Europe more than any other area in the world ... prices to drill for oil, by Norway and Britain are HUGE ... prices at $30 a barrel, doesn't even cover the cost to pull the oil out of their ocean holes.

So the control of the reservoirs, is not to control the Middle East ... but to control Europe. Which is also why Europe is being bombarded by a flood of refugees ... and CIA trained terrorists.

For the why ... remember that Europe is the "common enemy" of all the worlds major powers of today. Even the US, would see EU as a contestant for power ... and thus would help undermine the EU, to see it fall apart and not be a contestant.

Europeans are "fortunately" just too stupid to see it ... as they're too brainwashed with propaganda, and the leaders unable to act on it ...

a reply to: bjarneorn

You're joking right?

I'm in the uk and we have oil rigs off the shores of Scotland. There's also rigs off of Norway.

You know what those 2 places have in common? They're both part of Europe.

a reply to: gmoneystunt

I disagree. Oil being inexhaustible is like saying a balloon full of helium is inexhaustible. Eventually it's going to run out and sink.

originally posted by: Toolman18
a reply to: gmoneystunt

I disagree. Oil being inexhaustible is like saying a balloon full of helium is inexhaustible. Eventually it's going to run out and sink.

Maybe, but we don't know if it that would be 50 years from now or 50,000 years. Oil is no where near being exhausted and new technologies keep discovering more sources. as someone else mentioned, oil could be replenishing itself. No one knows.

I'd love to see more cleaner fuels but right now, none of them are really cost effective or can significantly replace oil use.

a reply to: Toolman18

"Peak Oil"
The same scaremongering that keeps US in a perpetual war - losing her sons and daughters built on the lie of Peak Oil
Its been discredited too often to even be used as a phrase any more by the Propagandists.

www.reuters.com...

By John Kemp Jan 21 "The limit of production in this country (the United States) is being reached, and although new fields undoubtedly await discovery, the yearly (oil) output must inevitably decline, because the maintenance of output each year necessitates the drilling of an increasing number of wells. "Such an increase becomes impossible after a certain point is reached, not only because of a lack of acreage to be drilled, but because of the great number of wells that will ultimately have to be drilled." This assessment could have been written recently about the outlook for oil production from North Dakota's Bakken formation or by any member of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil (ASPO). In fact, it was written by Carl Beal at the U.S. Bureau of Mines in 1919.” Beale dramatically warned his readers: "At present the country is facing a serious shortage of petroleum ... favourable territory has become scarcer, competition has increased and the demand for petroleum and its products has created a market that cannot be adequately supplied.

reason.com... Hubbert's Peak Refuted:
Peak Oil Theory Still Wrong Who's a flat-earther now? Ronald Bailey|Jun. 10, 2015 11:16 am

“Instead of falling, global oil production has soared. In the United States the Energy Information Administration predicts that domestic oil production will average 9.43 million barrels a day this year, the most since 1972. Given the fall in oil prices, exploration and production will trail off a bit to 9.3 million barrels per day next year. The low point in U.S. production was in 2008 when pumping averaged 5 million barrels per day. Peak oilists always underestimate the power of markets to mobilize human ingenuity.”

see also
archives.datapages.com... Extended Abstract: M. King Hubbert, the ‘Peak Oil’ Fallacy, U.S. Energy Policy 2013

www.dailytitan.com... The fallacy of ‘Peak Oil’ theory BY DANIEL BARBEAU – POSTED ON MAY 6, 2013 “Likewise, American doomsayers predicted in 1956 that domestic oil production would begin to decline in the 1970s. However, modern production projections conclude that by 2020 the U.S. will surpass Saudi Arabia to become the largest oil producer in the world.”

you wrote

The Middle East is a mess

Yes it help to keep oil prices high and arms manufacturers in business

The only reason we are there is to take control of fossil fuel reservoirs. Also not a big suprise to anyone.

Not only that but to keep the drugs out of the hands of the Taliban and in the hands of the West thereby ensuring a constant supply into Northern America and Europe

The whole world would shut down in days if we used all the oil in the ground. Important people know this and so do scientists who study this kind of thing

What the same scientists who have been crying Peak Oil since 1919?
That’s assuming that the oil in the ground is finite – in fact there are plenty of reserves underground
Its all a matter of cost/benefit

“if you want America to be great, vote for someone who would take complete control over all parts of the world with fossil fuel reserves. All other arguments the presidential candidates are having are moot. Without oil, modern society collapses

It matters not who wins they will tow the same line as all others before them – an expansionistic hegemony to pillage the earth for the greedy 1%ers

originally posted by: Toolman18
a reply to: Alien Abduct

If the Iraqi government really had control over their oil reserves, they would be wealthy and in control of there country. This obviously isn't the case.

So is the United States in control of and using Iraq's oil infrastructure or not?

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: Toolman18

Why did we spend billions to conquer Iraq just to leave it in shambles and leave all the oil behind?

Who told you we left Iraq? Ever heard of the "Green Zone"? Its the largest Industrial Embassy Complex on the planet.

US of A, Baghdad
The largest US air base in Iraq is still there, ostensibly kicking ISIS ass but really just occupying the country in case oh, US gets to bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

Al Asad

So is the United States in control of and using Iraq's oil infrastructure or not?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: bjarneorn

You're joking right?

I'm in the uk and we have oil rigs off the shores of Scotland. There's also rigs off of Norway.

You know what those 2 places have in common? They're both part of Europe.

No, I'm not joking ... have you gone to check how much it costs, those rigs? per barrel of oil?

knoema.com...

Look at that ... the UK with it's rigs, doesn't produce much oil ... but the price for each barrel is huge! The "break even" price, is even greater than this. Then take a look at this map, and see how much oil the EU produces.

en.wikipedia.org...

Not a whole lot ...

www.indexmundi.com...

Then take a look at how much the EU region consumes ... now remove the russians consumption and you'll see that your UK doesn't even produce half it consumes. Germany alone, consumes more than the EU produces.

That's your tell tale.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Well well what have we here…ready to stop swallowing the cool aid of high prices/finite resource
Oil regenerates
www.viewzone.com...
Fossils From Animals And Plants Are Not Necessary For Crude Oil And Natural Gas, Swedish Researchers Find

What would happen if it were proven that "fossil fuels" weren't the result of decaying plant and animal matter, were actually created within the Earth due to simple chemistry and you could not be scared into believing that we were "running out" of oil and natural gas?

Estimates of how much crude oil we have extracted from the planet vary wildly. As late as May of 2009 a report published in the International Journal of Oil, Gas and Coal Technology suggested that we may have used more than we think.

The idea that we are running out of oil is not a new one. Scientists have told us that oil is a limited resource which was formed millions of years ago by the decaying vegetation and biomass of extinct species of plants and animals. With an estimated 1- trillion barrels of oil already extracted from deep wells since commercial drilling began around 1870, many predict that we are nearing the mid-point of remaining oil on the planet.

But there have always been those who claim that oil is a natural substance that forms automatically in the Earth's mantle. They say that it is virtually everywhere, if you can drill deep enough to tap it.

Proponents of so-called "abiotic oil" claim that the proof is found in the fact that many capped wells, which were formerly dry of oil, are found to be plentiful again after many years, They claim that the replenished oil is manufactured by natural forces in the Earth's mantle.

Critics of the abiotic theory disagree. They claim that capped wells may appear to refill after a few years, but they are not regenerating. It is simply an effect of oil slowly migrating through pore spaces from areas of high pressure to the low-pressure area of the drill hole. If this oil is drawn out, it will take even longer for the hole to refill again. They hold that oil is a non-renewable resource generated and deposited under special biological and geological conditions

www.usnews.com...

Perhaps the breakthrough for this theory came when Chris Cooper's story appeared April 16, 1999, in The Wall Street Journal about an oil field called Eugene Island. Here's an excerpt: Production at the oil field, deep in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Louisiana, was supposed to have declined years ago. And for a while, it behaved like any normal field: Following its 1973 discovery, Eugene Island 330's output peaked at about 15,000 barrels a day.

By 1989, production had slowed to about 4,000 barrels a day. Then suddenly—some say almost inexplicably—Eugene Island's fortunes reversed. The field, operated by PennzEnergy Co., is now producing 13,000 barrels a day, and probable reserves have rocketed to more than 400 million barrels from 60 million. Stranger still, scientists studying the field say the crude coming out of the pipe is of a geological age quite different from the oil that gushed 10 years ago. According to Cooper, Thomas Gold, a respected astronomer and professor emeritus at Cornell University in Ithaca, NY, has held for years that oil is actually a renewable, primordial syrup continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attacked by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs, he says.

All of which has led some scientists to a radical theory: Eugene Island is rapidly refilling itself, perhaps from some continuous source miles below the Earth's surface. That, they say, raises the tantalizing possibility that oil may not be the limited resource it is assumed to be. More recently, Forbes presented a similar discussion. In 2008 it reported a group of Russian and Ukrainian scientists say that oil and gas don't come from fossils; they're synthesized deep within the earth's mantle by heat, pressure, and other purely chemical means, before gradually rising to the surface. Under the so-called abiotic theory of oil, finding all the energy we need is just a matter of looking beyond the traditional basins where fossils might have accumulated.

a reply to: Alien Abduct

Mostly multi national corporations like Exxon, Shell, etc.

The refineries on the horizon are run by them, secured by US military, paid for by US tax payers.

I saw a show were they were traveling in Iraq by car, passing all the gas stations that were closed… having to stop and buy gas out of plastic jugs from black-market road stop 'gas stations'. The camera panned up and focused on the refinery off in the distance.

Shell oil in Iraq

originally posted by: Toolman18
a reply to: enlightenedservant

So the trains taking coal to the power plants don't use oil? The power lines transporting this power are built without oil? Really?

LOL You're talking about what currently exists while I'm talking about what has and can exist. Petroleum wasn't even a "thing" until the mid 1850s, so how did they use machinery back then? I'm sure you've seen the massive, ships, and factories that were run by coal back then?

And what power lines? I deliberately brought up coal in cooking, heating buildings, and steam engines because they don't require anything else. Also, power lines themselves don't require petroleum. So what do you even mean there? Not to mention, petroleum products are only used in modern transportation systems because they're cheaper and/or more energy efficient than coal powered and electric alternatives. Though ethanol and electric powered transportation systems are already showing their viability if they have sufficient funding (not to mention other renewable energy sources and mag-lev technology).

No offense, but you sound like the proponents of asbestos when it was still known as the "miracle mineral". Asbestos was used in so many different products that it was inconceivable that it could ever be replaced. Their perspective completely rejected the idea that other technologies and compounds could replace asbestos if need be. That's the same way things currently are with petroleum products.

If the need arises, we could replace virtually everything that currently uses petroleum products. Hemp oil & vegetable oils are some examples, not to mention the plastics and synthetic compounds created from these oils. Ethanol, synthetic oils, other biofuels, and their derivatives can also replace other petroleum products. Petroleum's biggest advantages right now are its abundance, it's relatively low costs, and the powerful interests and infrastructure that support it.

originally posted by: gmoneystunt

originally posted by: Toolman18
There is no replacement for fossil fuels.

What if it is replaceable. What if the oil fields replenish themselves.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Oil is not of fossil origin and is inexhaustible

The oil fields formed in the early geological eras of the planet where there was plant life and not bacterial life. All those giant trees ended up falling over and being buried by layers of clay and sand. Then the folding and squeezing of the sediment layers creates domes where the oil collected. When first drilled, these domes are at high pressure from the compressed gas at the top. But eventually that pressure is lost. If these resources did self renew, then they would regain pressure after being left abandoned.

a reply to: stormcell

Thanks for the explanation. That still doesn't explain why oil has been found on meteors and fossil fuels found on other moons/planets. The oil fields replenishing was just one example. Check the link and some of replies in my link from the quote that you replied to. There are numerous other reasons of why oil is seemingly replaceable or replenishing.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So if we lose all the oil we'll be fine because of coal and stuff. What do you think lubes that machinery? It's not coal. And I guess we can go back to wood ships and log cabins. But again we won't be the super power or even a power at all without oil. Oil runs the modern technological world. Without it we go back a few hundred years. And power lines are put into place with oil driven vehichles. The metal in those lines is mined and refined with oil driven machines and then coated with an oil based rubber coating. So I would like for you to explain to me how we connect the world with power without oil. How does ethanol work? Refine corn into fuel using oil driven vehicles. Also that corn doesn't go to food. Transport said fuel to plants and distribution stations using oil based vehicles. Ethanol manufacturing uses more calories than it produces. So not a good idea. Electric vehicles are a great idea. But, again, how do you think all those resouces get to the plant that puts it all together? How much oil goes into each plastic casing around each battery? Not to mention the rest of the vehicle is made of steel and plastic which all require. You guessed it. Oil. So again, what is our alternative?

I am not some proponent for oil. Just a realist. As much as I can be anyway. I actually hate what it has turned our country in to. I really hope some miracle substance comes along and saves us. But I doubt it. Slaves to oil. Till it's gone.