Proof: Advanced Ancient Indian Civilization existed

Originally posted by El Davicho
I'm a bit new to this party, and haven't waded through all the responses. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, I need ot ask if it's been addressed that the Vymanika Shastra is not in fact an ancient Sanskrit text, but is a channeled text from the early 20th century?

I just want to make sure no one jumping into this thread with no forehand knowledge thinks it was part of the original Sanskrit epics, or dug up in an old dusty urn.

El Davicho,

It's been addressed and summarily ignored, as will, I'm sure, be the case in this instance.

There's no educating the bull headed nor the self righteous. Or the lazy.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


amen to that harte,

in most of the discussions in threads in this section it is painfully obvious the ignorance is not being denied at all but being embraced in the never ending citations of youtube videos and rediculous websites by so called experts.


many of whom have no actual education in or experience with the subjects at hand other than reciting dubious websites and youtube videos.

Almost anydiscussion turns into a nibiru nephalim world is growing and aliens built everything cavalcade of BS.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by El Davicho
I'm a bit new to this party, and haven't waded through all the responses. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, I need ot ask if it's been addressed that the Vymanika Shastra is not in fact an ancient Sanskrit text, but is a channeled text from the early 20th century?

I just want to make sure no one jumping into this thread with no forehand knowledge thinks it was part of the original Sanskrit epics, or dug up in an old dusty urn.

El Davicho,

It's been addressed and summarily ignored, as will, I'm sure, be the case in this instance.

There's no educating the bull headed nor the self righteous. Or the lazy.

Hi Harte,

I'm new here and equally daunted by the hundreds of posts that have come before. From my sampling I somehow think I know what to expect.

I've known many people from India and have great respect for their culture and heritage. But I don't think there's anything ever discovered that even comes close to substantiating the stories of an ancient technologically advanced civilization in the Indian subcontinent 5-10,000 years ago or more.

Tell me if you're familiar with this phenomenon. There are people groups who feel compelled to retroengineer a glorious past history for themselves that never actually happened. We've seen this in Africa and parts of the Middle East where tribes claim to be descended from Lost Tribes of Israel, or King Solomon, or wherever. The whole Mormon religion, embraced by 3.5 million people, is based on the supposed existence of Israelites who settled in the Americas 2500 years ago. Not a shred of archeological evidence exists.

Is this motivated by low self-esteem, a compelling need to dress up one's own heritage. Are people somehow embarrassed by the reality that they have no glorious cultural past and feel the need to invent one.

Another great mystery.

Mike



[edit on 29-8-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
Hi Harte,

I'm new here and equally daunted by the hundreds of posts that have come before. From my sampling I somehow think I know what to expect.

MM,
You ain't that new. You've been on my friends list for some time now.

I mean, you're not so new that you can't guess at how much hooie is posted in this thread. ("Deny Ignorance" indeed!)

Originally posted by mmiichaelI've known many people from India and have great respect for their culture and heritage. But I don't think there's anything ever discovered that even comes close to substantiating the stories of an ancient technologically advanced civilization in the Indian subcontinent 5-10,000 years ago or more.

There isn't, you're right.

And listen, most Hindus do not require scientific or material evidence for their faith, just as most people of any other faith don't require it of theirs.

It's kind of sad to see so-called religious people so lacking in faith that they have to "find" evidence that their Path is valid.

Most people just have faith. That's all that is really required. Scrounging through lies and deceptions trying to "prove" that your religion, or your culture, is "special" is just pathetic. And in the case of religion, is certainly not the way to go about proving your faith to your creator.

Originally posted by mmiichaelTell me if you're familiar with this phenomenon. There are people groups who feel compelled to retroengineer a glorious past history for themselves that never actually happened. We've seen this in Africa and parts of the Middle East where tribes claim to be descended from Lost Tribes of Israel, or King Solomon, or wherever. The whole Mormon religion, embraced by 3.5 million people, is based on the supposed existence of Israelites who settled in the Americas 2500 years ago. Not a shred of archeological evidence exists.

Is this motivated by low self-esteem, a compelling need to dress up one's own heritage. Are people somehow embarrassed by the reality that they have no glorious cultural past and feel the need to invent one.

Mike

Dude, I don't know the reason but I can say that no culture is immune. Take a glance at some of the political backstabbing done by the American Founding Fathers. They are always painted in this glorious light, but those guys were just as bastardly as any politician alive today, including Ted Kennedy (didn't want to exclude one of the lying scumbags just because he recently died! Wouldn't seem fair!)

Heck, think of the meaning of the phrase "The Good Old Days."
When the hell was that? When you could catch cholera from the human excrement that lined the streets of every halfway large U.S. city? Please.


Harte

reply to post by Harte

Heck, think of the meaning of the phrase "The Good Old Days."
When the hell was that? When you could catch cholera from the human excrement that lined the streets of every halfway large U.S. city? Please.

The good old days . . . that made me laugh when I read it . . . I remember my grandfather telling us of the good old days, and have heard my dad doing the same thing to my nephew and I am sure when my sons are older, he will relay it to them as well.

It seems that every generation thinks that in the time of their youth it was the good old days . . . . . I wonder if ancient man grandfathers told the youngsters of the good old days of their youth. It is these word of mouth tales that some of the legends, IMHO, come from in many instances.

As we get older and relay stories of our youth, we tend to embellish, it is not always intentional, sometimes we really believe the stories happened the way we tell them, but when you get two old friends together telling their story from their point of view, you get some slight alterations and even some huge ones.

I noticed this first hand when my grandfather and his brother where reminiscing of their childhood antics. If I relayed these stories with my cousins and siblings to my kids, nephew’s nieces, etc., I am sure that our stories would be further skewed. I am sure that if our kids retold the stories all the way down the line 4 or 5 generations later, the stories that started off as simple antics of my grandfather and his brother could possibly turn into a more fantastic story than it originally was.

This may be possibly the way that many legends and tails have risen for many millennia, even the ones leading to the belief that advanced civilizations where here previously. It could have been simply put that one tribe might have had for instance, the wheel that the other did not, to the tribe without it, this civilization would seem advanced. I use the wheel as an example, only because it was the first thing other than fire that came to mind.

[edit on 9/2/2009 by AlienCarnage]

First, I just wanted to mention that the collection of these Hindu texts was known as the "Ithihasa", which literally means history. To simply discredit it as a mythological text is the same as taking a current history textbook and calling it a mythological text. I could look at a current history textbook and question everything written in it as being unproven, but what sense does that make? It makes just as much sense to completely discredit Ithihasa as mythology. You could argue that there is archeaological evidence which would support the current history textbooks, but I would argue that there is also archeological evidence supporting the Ithihasa. For example, the existence of Dwarka exactly where it was supposed to be, or the existence of green shards of glass and high levels of radioactivity around the area which is rumored to be the Kurukshetra (these green shards of glass have only been seen near sites of nuclear explosions in the desert; the heat from the nuclear explosions converted the sand in the desert to glass).

Second and more importantly, I wanted to ask all of you (specially Indigo) why does no one remember how to make these things that once existed. Its pretty obvious that Mahabharat, a world war, was the cause of decline of this great civilization. However, there were many who survived Mahabahrat, would have remembered the technology and remade it. Why then was it lost?

Originally posted by Kevat
First, I just wanted to mention that the collection of these Hindu texts was known as the "Ithihasa", which literally means history. To simply discredit it as a mythological text is the same as taking a current history textbook and calling it a mythological text.

The use of the word "history" or the claim that "so indeed it was" (literal translation) is, of course, no indication of the veracity of a tale.
After all, Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. all call their stories "history" as well, and they are not only internally conflicting, they also conflict with the Hindu version of what "history" is. IOW, they can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.

You could argue that there is archeaological evidence which would support the current history textbooks, but I would argue that there is also archeological evidence supporting the Ithihasa. For example, the existence of Dwarka exactly where it was supposed to be

You mean, right off the coast of where Dwarka is today? The town there is named Dwarka, the natives have a tale about how their former city(s) sank, that part of India is measurably sinking, and you think that it's some kind of miracle that old Dwarka is right of the coast of new Dwarka?

or the existence of green shards of glass and high levels of radioactivity around the area which is rumored to be the Kurukshetra
(these green shards of glass have only been seen near sites of nuclear explosions in the desert; the heat from the nuclear explosions converted the sand in the desert to glass).

The entire quote above is erroneous and/or misinformed. However, the bolded portion is an out and out lie.

Second and more importantly, I wanted to ask all of you (specially Indigo) why does no one remember how to make these things that once existed.

Because they never existed, and the way they are described, they couldn't have done what has been claimed - primarily due to the laws of physics.

Harte

Second and more importantly, I wanted to ask all of you (specially Indigo) why does no one remember how to make these things that once existed. Its pretty obvious that Mahabharat, a world war, was the cause of decline of this great civilization. However, there were many who survived Mahabahrat, would have remembered the technology and remade it. Why then was it lost?

I think it was actually before the Mahabharata. The great civilisation existed prior to the glacial age tens of thousands of years ago. Its base was Lemuria/Mu that existed near the pacific. It was a massive continent and it sank due to unknown reasons, most probably due to geological changes. So these people migrated out from Lemuria, and the more enlightened faction set-up base in the Himalayas in the Indus valley region that we today know as the Aryans. At this stage, already a great loss of knowledge and technology had occurred and thus this became an elite tradition. Most people lived basic and primitive lives, except the elite few who had preserved the traditions still knew how to use the technology.
Some of this technology was used in the Mahabharata war, which lead to even further destruction and further loss of the knowledge and technology. In the end, it seems the enlightened ones decided to keep the science and technology under lock and key to prevent anymore disasters from taking place. I think this is the main reason why it has all been lost.

We are a redeveloping civilisation and unfortunately it seems we are heading in the same direction as our ancients did.

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
We have have flying vehicles described over and over again in ancient Indian literature. Now, for the first time, see an ancient Indian document of aeronautical science, the Vyanmaika Shastra(VS) that gives us technical and schematical information on propulsion, energy, weapons, flight tactics, pilots food and clothes and metallurgy. This is the the most groud-breaking document ever and has been studied by many scholars, engineers and scientists from Europe and India from the early 20th century and onwards. It is currently being studied on the highest level of the Indian government and scientifiic community, at the Aeronautical Development Agency(ADA) of the Indian Ministry of Defence.

I'm not sure about your research but -

en.wikipedia.org...

A 1974 study by researchers at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore found that the heavier-than-air aircraft that the Vaimanika Shastra described were aeronautically unfeasible. The authors remarked that the discussion of the principles of flight in the text were largely perfunctory and incorrect, in some cases violating Newton's laws of motion. The study concluded

Any reader by now would have concluded the obvious – that the planes described above are the best poor concoctions, rather than expressions of something real. None of the planes has properties or capabilities of being flown; the geometries are unimaginably horrendous from the point of view of flying; and the principles of propulsion make then resist rather than assist flying. The text and the drawings do not correlate with each other even thematically. The drawings definitely point to a knowledge of modern machinery.

This can be explained on the basis of the fact that Shri Ellappa who made the drawings was in a local engineering college and was thus familiar with names and details of some machinery. Of course the text retains a structure in language and content from which its 'recent nature' cannot be asserted. We must hasten to point out that this does not imply an oriental nature of the text at all. All that may be said is that thematically the drawings ought to be ruled out of discussion. And the text, as it stands, is incomplete and ambiguous by itself and incorrect at many places.

The authors expressed puzzlement at the contradiction and errors in the Vaimanika Shastra text, especially since its compilers supposedly had access to publications that did not make such errors

J. B. Hare of the Internet Sacred Text Archive in 2005 compiled an online edition of Josyer's 1973 book, in the site's "UFOs" section. In his introduction, Hare writes

The Vymanika Shastra was first committed to writing between 1918 and 1923, and nobody is claiming that it came from some mysterious antique manuscript. The fact is, there are no manuscripts of this text prior to 1918, and nobody is claiming that there are. So on one level, this is not a hoax. You just have to buy into the assumption that 'channeling' works. ... there is no exposition of the theory of aviation (let alone antigravity). In plain terms, the VS never directly explains how Vimanas get up in the air.

The text is top-heavy with long lists of often bizarre ingredients used to construct various subsystems. ... There is nothing here which Jules Verne couldn't have dreamed up, no mention of exotic elements or advanced construction techniques. The 1923 technical illustration based on the text ... are absurdly un-aerodynamic. They look like brutalist wedding cakes, with minarets, huge ornithopter wings and dinky propellers. In other words, they look like typical early 20th century fantasy flying machines with an Indian twist.

Maybe they were more advanced spiritually then we are today. They could possibly see the future through time travel. Being in two places at one time. Maybe they could connect with someone in the future through quantum entanglement. Being spiritually advanced means having the ability to do these things. They could have written these things down in story in order to explain the unexplainable.

One thing that has probably not changed much in the last 20,000 years of human development is our ability to imagine.

I wonder what would happen if there was some sort of world wide, 100 year ice age where 80% of habited regions were covered with a KM of Ice and the only thing that survived from North Amercia was a script for Star Trek the Next Generation.

3000 years later (once civilisation is rebuilt) I wonder if people would be siting the script as evidence of advanced US technology becasue the script writer accurately describes and understands Warp Speed, Quantum Torpedoes, Heisenberg Compensators, Phasers etc etc.

reply to post by mmiichael


Really! Care to explain how the Pyramids of Giza as well as others in different parts of the world came into being??? Why are they still standing after soo many cataclysmic events??? Why is it that man in this day and age with all the technology is unable to duplicate the same...There is something to the ancient civilizations that we need to look further into. Maybe there's nothing much in India, but proof exists in many places.

Originally posted by CuteAngel
Why is it that man in this day and age with all the technology is unable to duplicate the same...

A ridiculous belief.

There is something to the ancient civilizations that we need to look further into.

Then why have you not done so?

I have, and there's simply no reason to believe what you here have said.

Maybe there's nothing much in India, but proof exists in many places.

Sorry, but no. No evidence at all (much less "proof") exists anywhere on Earth for what you believe.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


You're in denial, I guess for one or more twisted belief you've got. I gave you a fine example and all you did is give a lousy excuse. What about the pyramids???

Originally posted by CuteAngel
reply to post by Harte

 

You're in denial, I guess for one or more twisted belief you've got. I gave you a fine example and all you did is give a lousy excuse. What about the pyramids???

Your belief that modern technology can't duplicate them has been utterly refuted a thousand times here at ATS.

What else were you asking about them?

They were built using ramps and counterweights by human beings, the remains of whom were located at Giza.

What, exactly, is your qquestion, and why, when you don't get an answer that is palatable to you, do you insist on some ancient magical (or alien) techniology?

Harte

Thank you for great!! post
Most of them not believe and deny facts, It's story but if we think on broader level, Can you imagine 1000 of different stories are related to each other from Indian Ancient age. It's create great Matrix and not easy to break and not even to deny. specially when written most rich and ancient language sanskrit.

Even if we can think by different angle, think about their conceptual visualizes, in world concept come first before you invent anything, using those concept people create different items. Take example of all modern scientist. Even some theory provided by them not came into existence but still theory exist like Einstein time relativity theory which people trying to create time machine.

If you have gone to Africa 300 year ago talking about plane and America 800 Year ago and telling them story about supersonic fighter jet and sky lab, no one would have believed you.
Even you must be consider object for mockery. Reason is simple there was no one thought, imagine or people saw in existence. However this is true now, so how you can deny all facts about Indian ancient story. May be no one could be realized them but at least you can not deny concept was exist.
Moreover on more concept of great floods with each "Yuga" exist and even modern people seeing same like '2012 movie', global warming, weather changing and other forms.
So again may be all worth knowledge gone away in that flood and nature disaster and left only stories from words.
One more point I would like to say there is story of "Nalanda" knowledge power station of India which was burnt 1000 year Ago before BC. That could have helped in some form of text material to solve some of puzzles.

As sir you posted on message there are certain proof and I agree and have have similar belief as you have. There are more stories and rel-vent item can be searched from all these.

Some of people do not believe on your words, but I do and have same thinking.

reply to post by mmiichael


Mike

think about you are most knowledgeable person in town and you created buzzy car that can work on air, surface and sky. And you are staying in age where no patent technology available, so you wrote some portion in book as concept and suddenly there was great nature disaster and everything swept away and few people near you left.

After 200 year these guys were telling story about your knowledge and wisdom and what you had created (With some aggregate fiction to show you as hero) and this continually passed on and passed on with some addition to show you as more famous hero) until after 400 year someone else again documented. However he never had full description and parts details what you had created. but you never wanted to misuse by someone else so kept secret and all know who knows was died.


So now what we have in our hand, you are as hero and some unknown type machine which was in existence. What you will call this?

Similarly there are stories of mis-use of power like "Asur (Devils)" so most of knowledge never been shared with everyone. Example Brahamastra
This was most powerful weapon and stories tells that only knowledge shared by few people and who was capable at that time. So real secret gone with real users but what left only stories which tell us there was a weapon.
Now you will consider as fiction, however if you consider as fiction then this fiction exist in 100's stories from different part of India. So far that even they could not meet to discuss everything to create same kind of fiction.

So even this is fiction as being concept can taken, like some scientist provide theory and and after 50-100 years later someone comes with new item or concept using that theory.

If you see description in article they mention "Kalyug" is considered as shortest age including human age. Now consider people leaving longer and "Yuga" had more age as compare to now. So what kind of knowledge has been aggregated in that time.
I would like to say everything had some meaning but as knowledge passed on one to one there was some "aggregation" on main layer.

That's why it is far kind of Matrix and need to extract knowledge out of that via decoding it.

Few Example:
Auyerveda Medicine now extracting and creating rich medicines
Definition pie
Definition for "Ashtra" and Shastra
Definition of Universe and Imagination
Base of earth
Importance of Five Elements
Why "Agni" Vayu and Surya considered as god?
Yoga (Most popular in world)
Gold (Why people outside was interested in India)


Etc... etc.. lot of things to decode

Even if I ask you to decode Uranium if this is not field of your expertise. You can not do that even after reading some concept as this may be top secret in some lab. so how you can imagine normal Indian who can not read and understand 5 lines written in complex book specially in Sanskrit. How can create some top secret methods he only heard of.

I do not deny even story of various parts of world, so there is always thousands of possibility in world however most of if never heard or never seen or never has proof does not mean it was not exist.

Mount Meru was a space elevator. The description/depiction of it is not consistent with a "mountain", but more a tower. There is no mountain on Earth that is tall enough to reach into space, but accounts give Mount Meru as having an extremely high altitude, 84,000 Yojanas which is a 1.08 million kilometers and 672,000 miles. In comparison, the distance between the Earth and the Moon is 238,857 miles. So Mount Meru was 2.8 times longer than the distance between the Earth and the Moon.