Underground city network

I've read somewhere that many large cities all over the world have secret underground components to them - comprehensive system of tunnels and buildings that could even be interconnected, employing a large amount of people. The surface entrances to these underground cities connect to various important buildings above-ground.

I also remember hearing that after 9/11, workers saw something of this nature below the World Trade Center, and were quickly ordered to close it off and not talk to anyone about it.

First, I'd like to say I have absolutely no evidence for these claims, and I don't remember where I read this. If anyone can back up or disprove this hypothesis with some data, that would be helpful.

Secondly, if these claims are even partially true, what are these cities used for? Who do they employ?

Any constructive feedback would be welcome! However, I don't really care if you "believe" or "disbelieve" me - I want concrete information to make a logical evaluation on this matter.

I heard of something like that in Belgium, below Brussels, but I also have no solid sources of that info. I can't recall where I read it. It was allegedly a city of 100 000 people underground. There are numerous large nuclear war shelters around the world, and likely more that are not known to the public.

I was told that part of Los Angeles was actually built over another city so there are miles and miles of underground tunnels. There are some books on the subject but I haven't gotten around to tracking them down. The best people to talk to about this is probably the "mole people" in NYC. They are homeless people that live underground in subway tunnels and what not. I'm sure they know all about what lurks under NYC. If you have the nerve to talk to them that is...




Here is a purported entrance to the LA tunnels from Michael Connely's (the writer) website.

I have seen pictures of the sealed up old subway terminals and such that people live in now in NY. The have crystal chandeliers (sp) and such because as we all know subway was the hot new thing a long time ago. I have taken a kayack through an underground river in Hartford Ct., and there were definately people living there as well. This is true, but as far as organized and employed, I say no.

an underground system of some sort beneath Brussels (as mentioned in the post above) makes sense to me with it being the home of the Euopean parliament. There are hundreds of politicians there at any one time, so at the very least there would probably be a nuclear bunker, possibly more?

Nice place to put bombs.

Wonder if Homeland Security and the Military will stop our cities from being destroyed from below.

This is actually a common story. It seems to be applied to anything. For example, a number of universities are 'rumoured' to have such tunnels. Sometimes they actually do have them.

Most cities have large underground networks of tunnels and access systems. Not just sewers either. Often cables and what not that are buried underground are encased in service tunnels, so that they don't have to be dug up. City Administrations would have their own, and various building administrators would have their own, and undoubtedly other authorities would have their own.

Its not a surprise that there were tunnels found underneath the WTC complex.

Originally posted by Garon
I was told that part of Los Angeles was actually built over another city so there are miles and miles of underground tunnels. There are some books on the subject but I haven't gotten around to tracking them down. The best people to talk to about this is probably the "mole people" in NYC.

Do not approach these people. They live underground for a reason. They are unable to incorporate into human society. It would require foolishness, not nerve, to talk to them.

lol nygdan,

A little paranoid don't you think.... I mean yeah there are people down there that it prolly isn't smart to approach, but to blanket say that they are the dregs of society and dangerous is a bit extreme.

I saw a show on the discovery channel (i think it was the discovery channel) about governmnet tunnels under railways leading up and down the east coast enabling government officials to travel in times of emergency.

Despite $25 billion in subsidies in the first 30 years of its existence, the federal government has not discovered how to transform Amtrak's train system into a profitable business or a viable transportation alternative for domestic travelers.

Why does the government keep funding Amtrak since they can't seem to make a profit in 30 years? Could it be that the money they give Amtrak actually is going towards the underground tunnel system?

I can say with 100% certainty that yes, at least 4 cities have underground tunnels interlocking many important buildings, and something approaching an actual city beneath.

Tho two I have the least experience with are Fort Worth, TX and Washington, DC. The ones I have the most experience with are Austin, TX and Seattle, WA.

In Fort Worth, the tunnels are not too impressive, being easily accessible from many points in the city, and convenience stores are located within. Usually it's a way to just bypass traffic. There are, however, a large number of them going to federal buildings that require keycards to get in, and have big men with guns on the inside. For obvious reasons, I did not enter those tunnels.

Washington D.C. has a huge network of tunnels connecting every capital hill building there is (and probably some there aren't). They are extremely clean, nice smelling, and there's a private house/congress mini-rail that runs through many of the tunnels. I took a trip to DC when I was 17, and lost my way on a field trip. Since I was in an expensive suit, and carrying a briefcase, and at the time (around 1993) no one was really thinking terrorism at the white house, I was probably figured for an intern, or someone's son. I was able to ride the rail (for free) and even walked right into one of the most classy elevators I've ever been in, right to a senator's lounge, where I noticed some pastries and had brunch with some old men, having no idea who they were, or where I was. Eventually I wandered down a different flight of stairs, seeing a sign that said "Senators only beyond this point".

Seattle, Washington has been destroyed about 2 or three times, through plague, fires, and earthquakes. At some point during the last century, there was a problem with the plumbing so that sometimes, if the timing was just right, if enough people on Pill Hill or Queen Anne flushed their toilets at the same time, excrement would literally shoot from the downtown toilets, sinks, wherever was connected to a sewer. To correct this, they buried anywhere from 1/2 to 4 stories worth of buildings in filler soil, and built new roads on top of it. This is why so many buildings in seattle look like they've sunk several feet into the ground. In fact, the ground has been raised above them. The tunnels are easily accessible, provided you can remove the several-hundred pound grates covering them, and (in some cases) have spelunking equipment, as you could be looking at anywhere from a few feet to fifty foot drop. There are tours that go to the "preserved" areas that look a lot like a certain underground fight from the movie "Demolition Man", but those aren't any fun. Through some of them, bus lines cut through them. Some of the tunnels are forever flooded (with dirt or water) and others are dry. Some of them are fun to explore, and some of them you should never set foot in (especially around the Seattle Light power plant....*shiver*).

Austin's tunnels I'm most familiar with, and there are so many, and it extends in such a wide area, I'm not even certain where they begin and end. The most easily accessible points are at the University of Texas, usually in the basement floors of the older campus buildings. Most of them are padlocked shut, but for a punk-arse group of college kids looking for an adventure, that's practically a neon sign shouting "ENTER!!!" Anyway, I've found multiple bomb shelters down there, one of which was unlocked and served, briefly, as a home during my homeless months. Briefly because the biggest problem in these tunnels is the rats, who have completely infested the unused bomb shelters (which house nothing more interesting than old school desks and very old stale tins of food). The tunnels extend at least as far as Riverside to the west, past 30 to the east, and well past the state capital to the south. That's as far as I got around to exploring. At one point I thought I'd make a map, but eventually lost interest due to more and more friends moving out of dorms, into apartments, and having a much more friendly place to party at. Most sections of tunnel were seperated by nothing more than a chain-link fence (easily bendable or climbable). Good times...good times. Some areas had people living there. They extend so far, and people go down there so rarely, that you could actually find "regulars" in some of the more remote areas. There weren't any green skinned chupa-thingies, aliens, vampires, or feral two-headed mutants, just some very territorial homeless people trying to keep out of the way of others, and the occasional group of LARPers. There may have been more interesting things out further, but like I said, I lost interest in exploring them at some point.

I've been a tad curious about tunnel systems as well. Below are two referances about supposed "secret tunnels".

Shun Akiba - Tokyo Tunnels

"His book "Teito Tokyo Kakusareta Chikamono Himitsu" ("Imperial City Tokyo: Secret of a Hidden Underground Network"), published by Yosensha in late 2002, is already in its fifth edition. Yet Shun has found it impossible to get the media to take serious note, write reviews or offer interviews."

Short News Article


Secret underground city uncovered in Belgrade

"Belgrade — A probe into the mysterious shooting of two soldiers has revealed the existence beneath the Serbian capital of a secret communist-era network of tunnels and bunkers that could have served as recent hideouts for some of the world's most-wanted war crimes suspects."

Belgrade Tunnels

-VW

i have read about hertford templer tunnels, as well as the catacombs under paris lately.i will try to find some of the better sites i have read on them. i also know that rome has an extensive cattacomb systom that the early christans used. i find it intriquing that there may be tunnels under buildings in the states as well. are there any known about in canada spacificly toronto?

the hertford tunnels are aparently still in use by the templars. it aparently has exits in several buildings as well as the castle. at one time templars were inprisoned in the castle.

in paris they found what was basicaly a movie house currantly used in an off limits area.

Is NATO HQ in Brussels? If so, the underground network would be a given. Also, on a related note, I seem to recall that the Bilderberg Hotel was in Belgium, and wonder if anyone knows whether it is also in Brussels.
And on a personal note, I am curious why so much power might be centered in such a small nation? It could be for convenience, I guess, but who knows?
The home country of possibly the finest chocolates and waffles is no basis for setting up a world class international power center there.
One possible reason I just thought of, is that no other country wanted the bulls eye that such an institution would create. Maybe the Belgians got bullied into hosting such an alluring target of the western worlds enemies.

Originally posted by Sugarlump
but to blanket say that they are the dregs of society and dangerous is a bit extreme.

Go and hang out with them in their underground tunnels and see what happens. I am not trying to needlesly bash the homeless, but these tunnel people, the police don't like to patrol them, and its not because they are stinky.

Nygdan
You're oversimplifying a problem and issuing blanket statements contrary to reason and the experience of other people.

There have been several excellent documentaries about the underground city below NY, one was entitled Under Pegasus if I remember correctly, because the main access points are in Grand Central Station, which boasts a beautiful ceiling mural of the heavenly constellations, including, you guessed it, Pegasus.

I have known many a gutter punk during my years in Manhattan (I lived there for a good portion of my life off and on, and tend to gravitate towards the fringe), most of them are decent enough people once you get to know them, but they are incredibly distrustful of outsiders, of everyone actually. Just like in all communities, the homeless community has perverts and psychos who take advantage of children. The smart street kids learn quick to trust nobody, and always look out for number one. Would you counsel them to do any different?

The community below NY has been relatively accepting of documentary film makers, writers and researchers. It's common practice to hire a local guide to prevent problems, but I suggest you be very scrupulous in picking the right guide. And for God's sake, don't go down there sightseeing, it's not the goddamn zoo, it's a fallout shelter from an insane world. (ever tried making it a week in a NYC shelter, especially in incliment weather?)

The homeless down there are armed, they're cunning because their survival depends on it, and they're much better adapted to the environment than any rich kid or street cop, so they have the advantage. There have been efforts to clean the city out, all were complete failures, and did nothing but foster resentment. When subsequent mayors found they could not eradicate the homeless completely, they resigned themselves to simply forcing the majority of them underground. Some estimates place the number of people living UNDER NY, at about a million.

In closing, I've known some good kids who had to retreat underground because of weather, police, and general safety issues (the shelters are not safe, I repeat, NOT SAFE). They didn't do it because they wanted to, they did it because they had to. It was a tough decision, and these kids are undeniably brave for venturing into the darkness where grown, armed, trained men fear to tread. Some make a life for themselves down there, others die or are captured and abused.

It's a hard life. But you shouldn't say they're all anti-social and dangerous. No more so than your average New Yorker. The things they have to teach, many people need to learn.

What they are..survivors. And don't forget it.

It's a hard life. But you shouldn't say they're all anti-social and dangerous. No more so than your average New Yorker. The things they have to teach, many people need to learn.

What they are..survivors. And don't forget it. WyrdeOne

I agree, cuz from my experience talking with the homeless people here, I have come to see that many of them are not only as smart as the average citizen, there are quite a sizeable percentage that are clearly above average intelligence, and some whom I would classify as genius level. They have taken that potential and for survival purposes focussed it on scamming unsuspecting passers by, and petty theft. Do not underestimate their minds, and also do not assume that they are unloving or uncaring, cuz some of them would give you their last dollar if they were sure you sincerely needed it.

If Disney world can have employees completely underground all its parks than why can't the government? Ofcourse, your triple-taxes aren't going to waste.



[edit on 26-3-2005 by Enigmatic_Messiah]

Originally posted by Nygdan
This is actually a common story. It seems to be applied to anything. For example, a number of universities are 'rumoured' to have such tunnels. Sometimes they actually do have them.

My university has these. I've never been in them, I've only seen the doors, but my dad has been in there once or twice, he's a university employee, and when they tore down one old building, you could see parts of them. They run under every building in campus and are used as maintenance tunnels. It would not surprise me in the least to learn that other universities, and for that matter, any extremely large network of buildings, have similar tunnels. It makes sense to have them to hold things you don't want people messing with, like water pipes and other utilities.

Whether certain cities have extensive networks like this, I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them do, especially older cities that may have had newer areas grow up above the original city and then the oldest stuff is on a lower level. I seem to recall a rumour that Paris has tunnels like these, but I can't be certain. I'll bet these kind of tunnels are all over military/gov't buildings too, for evacuation purposes, but, again, that's just speculation.

Going underground is not a new thing...

Marie de Hongrie (Mary of Hungary??) (1505-1558), Charles Quint's sister, is the one who gave her name to a famous park in Belgium, Mariemont. Some time in her life, she had a somptuous castle built in a city a few kilometers away, Binche.

There has been for nearly 5 centuries stories of an underground tunnel going from the old castle (now ruins) in Mariemont park where she lived to the new one in Binche. The entrance of the tunnel has supposedly been found, but the tunnel has collapsed. The tunnel end (or start!) in Binche castle has never been found though...

Marie de Hongrie supposedly once used the tunnel (a 2 horse coach could allegedly easily fit in it) to flee from the old castle, but I don't remember the story behind that...

In the same category, any one visited Paris catacombs?

Also, yes, Brussels is the home of the NATO HQ, of the European parliament, and 50km (30mi) south of Brussels, you find the SHAPE, Supreme Headquarters of Allied Powers in Europe, basically also the NATO HQ for Europe.

[edit on 27-3-2005 by SpookyVince]