Stealth through the years

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: 5StarOracle


Another thing notable about the XB-70 is her relatively long fuselage length in regards to her goose neck and nose. Gotta lend it's self to something useful other than balancing the weight of the plane while at high speeds.

I think that's related to not intersecting with the bowshock from the nose in supersonic flight. All supersonics seem to look long and pointy for one fundamental reason.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I like to think of subs as being the stealth aircraft of the seas, except they're scarier and even more potentially destructive.

Just look at what an SSN that gets the drop on a battle group can do, relative to just about every other anti-fleet platform ever fielded. Or, for that matter, think about what an Ohio can do relative to a B-2.

It's like the subs are playing 3-D chess, while the skimmers (and the aircraft they carry) are still stuck on checkers. And they have the signature-reduction tech to match.

I'd be shocked is some of the aircraft stealth research didn't have its roots in Rickover's sound abatement projects.

a reply to: mbkennel

All I know is that I haven't heard anything regarding ongoing development of long pointy noses. But in conjunction with other design attributes they gotta be good for something.

a reply to: Barnalby

Yeah subs are sneaky. I remember as a kid taking the ferry to Catalina Island from Long Beach. We were about a mile or two out from Avalon Harbor where we would dock and disembark when behind the ferry about a 1/4 mile A 688 Class SSN (Los Angeles class ) surfaces directly in our boats wake and followed us in towards the harbor. We had sailed right over a 350 foot long nuclear powered attack sub, likely carrying nuclear weapons. Probably waited for us to pass overhead then surfaced or picked up or tail and followed subsurface for many miles behind us hiding in our ferry's acoustic signature. Either way nobody and I'm pretty sure this included the ferry captain had any idea we were that close to a Attack Sub.

We docked at Avalon like normal. The sub parked about 1/4 mile from the the dock and had the crew take a launch over to visit the bars on Catalina for the night. Watched it sitting out there in that bay the whole time fascinated about the leviathan before me.

People think of acoustic cloaking or mitigation and subs and think the tiles on her hull, or maybe sound dampening material to muffle the machinery or engine noise. Screw shaping etc... But people also forget an important aspect which is hydraulic and fluid acoustic mitigation. A ninja, and a SSN on an attack run or stalking it's prey to me is a modern day example, obviously doesn't want his sword to make noise when he un sheaths it from its scabbard going "Schink" as you draw giving your self away to the enemy. Nor does a sub want it's hydraulics making a whining sound when actuating torpedo or trunk doors. Nor do you want the sound of water pumping into said trunks or doors making a peep either. Lest your enemy hears this and figures out you are prepping the tubes to launch at them. Triangulates the various noises and figures out where you are and launches first or does something else undesirable.

There's gotta be a way to insure that water flows smoothly with out wakes and eddies inside those lines. The same concept would probably be useful if it crossed over to the air force and helped smooth out the wakes and eddies responsible for sound in another fluid that the back end of a bird might spew.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

A lot of times they use civilian ships as target practice, to practice those techniques for tracking surface vessels and hiding in their acoustic signature to get close enough to them so that they can ripple off the first salvo with so little warning that it will hit the target before they can even get countermeasures in the water.

And also, remember that the 688's and 21's, when opened up, can hit speeds that are reportedly in excess of 40kts, or faster than the flank speed of most surface combatants. So if the commander doesn't care about being quiet, they can chase down any surface ship this side of an LCAC using speed alone.

It's the kind of stuff that keeps Navy surface commanders awake at night in cold sweats.

And that's before we get to the Ohios, which can do all of that, all while running even more quietly than the SSN's thanks to their natural-circulation reactors that can operate at >80% power without any of their reactor pumps running. All while carrying up to 24x14 MIRVs that can each hit the same CEPs as a Minuteman or MX at ranges in excess of 7,500 miles.

That's the stuff that keeps Beijing or Moscow up in cold sweats at night.

As a kid I more or less wore out the VHS copy I had of the NOVA episode where they went out on a patrol with the USS Michigan, and visiting Groton and Portsmouth to tour the Nautilus and the Albacore was one of my absolute favorite things to do. Grabbing glances of the SSN's in dock wasn't bad either, and I remember once seeing the USS Maine making a port call in Portsmouth shortly after her commissioning. You haven't truly lived until you've seen a sub the length of a Panamax container ship, they're THAT big compared to a Los Angeles. They're just about the only piece of white-world military technology that's even more exotic than the B-2.

As to your Ninja silently unsheathing his sword analogy Bass, Google "swim-out torpedo tubes".

a reply to: Barnalby

I'm a big fan of the Ohio's. I remember after the cold war was "over" the russians let journalists go inside the Typhoons. The western world eagerly awaited to find out what was inside. So many questions. Why is she so big. Why is she got three inner hulls. Is she hiding some secret russian technology.

They get inside turns out for crew comfort the thing had like a petting zoo, a day spa and a swimming pool. Well, OK, but it did have a swimming pool and sauna.

And to think the Navy has as much experience with Drones as the airforce. Bet people would be surprised just how developed certain aspects of our submarine fleet are.

As far as swim out torpedoes, the good old pre flood the tube and then float out the torpedoes then start them up. But the enemy can hear you open the outer doors or run the flooding equipment..........or can they? Wonder how the Air Force could use similar technology on their planes.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

When I was in my early teens I got to go onto a sub that was with the JFK carrier strike group when they were at port everglades.

No petting zoo. but I was impressed with the ice cream machine they had. lol

a reply to: grey580


now that is something sweet to have done. It would be the memory of my life to be able to go below decks on a SSN for a tour. I got to go inside that old dumpy foxtrot they have berthed next to the Queen Mary ( who looks like crap these days too) down in Long Beach. Talk about claustrophobic once inside. The outer hull is surprisingly thin too.

Now the USS Iowa. That was a bad ass tour to go on. She is awesome. I remember they have veterans that served on her give the tours. They had a Naval re-enlisting ceremony going on on the bow at the time. It was really emotional to watch the men and women get re sworn in.

During the tour I saw a few little red arrows pointing to tiny little dents roughly the size of a softballs. I said "whats that?" to the guy giving the tour. Turns out that was what happened when enemy shells actually landed a hit on the Iowa. Nothing. that's what happens. The shell bounced off the super structure just below the battle bridge (or was it main bridge) can't remember. Landed on the deck and set the deck on fire. A boatswains mate or some deckhand opened a door, sprayed it with a fire extinguisher and carried on with some other more pressing duties.

Those 21" cannons. Wow! You can stand next to the shells they have displayed on the deck. They stand taller than my 5'4" butt that's for sure. The powder satchels were almost bigger than me too. Found out she used to carry as part of her armament 21" Nuclear shells just in case ya ever needed one. She wasn't the biggest of all battleships in history. But arguably the fastest and most efficient and lethal.

Remembered being shocked by just how thick the armor is for the bulkheads. 18- 24 inches of solid steel. Remember thinking to my self how does this thing even float. Remember walking away from the whole tour saying "they don't build em like that anymore." Takes solid to a whole new meaning.


The threads drifting away from aviation stealth. Lets get it back on topic.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Sorry, but continuing with the thread drift, I have been on a genuine u-boat. Will never forget that feeling.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

It was neat.

They took us on a tour of the boat. We saw the bunks, bridge and kitchen.

We couldn't go past the bridge because the propulsion room was right behind it.

We lucked out to see it. A cousin was married to, I think a marine, and he was able to get us on board by showing his mil id.

So anyways back to stealth.

Maybe we should link a few patents here to show what sorts of stealth is in the works.

originally posted by: B2StealthBomber
a reply to: 5StarOracle

They'll just hold up their nuclear development, Obamas more of a drone man but bush put a big dent in their nuclear program in one fell swoop.

The weapon and aircraft are still classified soo doubt it will ever come out.

Any chance you could elaborate on this?

a reply to: sqd5driver

A few members here could. But I doubt anybody will talk about it in anything other than vague details though, myself included.

But B2StealthBomber is absolutely right. We did hand NK their ass a few years back when Bush was in charge. And, most nobody in the public figured it out or caught on as to what had just happened.

Personally I hope we hit em with it again if they get all uppity.

Wonder if it the weather in NK has a forecast of fog anytime soon.

a reply to: sqd5driver

Ryongchon. Pew-pew-pew. What was on that train?

a reply to: Badgermole42

nope not the train. nor the neighborhood . close though.

a reply to: Badgermole42

Ryanggang. Similar but different.

a reply to: Bedlam

Aw shucks, I always get the two confused. But the pew-pew part is accurate, no? Or is it more of a bzzzztt sound?

a reply to: Badgermole42

I think its both!!!

a reply to: Badgermole42

More like a lightning bolt.

a reply to: Badgermole42

www.aliendave.com...

Check out that

a reply to: B2StealthBomber

Hadn't seen that in a while, will have to read it again. I think Mr. Amarillo photo had a write up about some thing similar to your link. I believe that it involved a large burst and a cloud of dust picked up by local weather radar.

Probaly should leave Zaph's stealth thread alone with the weapons talk. Let's get back on topic and someone can tell us what aircraft this was fired from. Anyone?