Gospel of the Holy Twelve

GospeloftheHoly12This is something that I recently stumbled upon in my never ending quest for extra-biblical information on the man today known as Jesus, real name Yeshua.

The story is that it is the long lost Gospel of the Nazirenes spoken of by the earliest Church fathers. Found hidden away in a Tibetan monastery and written in Aramaic in the late 1800's and translated into english by a Rev. Ouessley it was, of course, deemed spurious.

I haven't even read it myself and do not claim its authentic, but I just want to provide a link for people to do their own research and determine for themselves if it is or isn't.

The fact that it could possibly be the Gospel off which the Gospels we have are based is my reason.[[/url]

a reply to: Mazzini

Found this look at it ......

The text of this "Gospel" is what appears to be a mix of episodes from the four canonical Gospels, in some places completely unchanged, or changed in ways of little significance. In other places, there are significant changes -- the virgin conception is replaced with Jesus as physical son of Joseph; Jesus is said to have learned magical arts in Egypt and traveled to India and Persia, where he also performed healing miracles; God is called our "Parent in Heaven," and a fourth temptation is added in the desert: Jesus is presented with a beautiful woman, whose affections he refuses. But the biggest difference overall is a thematic one: Elizabeth is told that John the Baptist "shall neither eat flesh meats, nor drink strong drink." Mary is told not to eat meat during her pregnancy. The magi are in such a hurry to find Jesus that they neglect to attend to their thirsty camels. The star of Bethlehem disappears from their sight until they give their camels rest and water. Jesus rebukes a man who beats his horse, and later rebukes a crowd of men who torment a cat. When one of the men gets defiant about it, Jesus causes his arm to wither. The next day the man returns admitting his sin, and is healed. In another instance Jesus rebukes a man for beating his camel, asking, "Wherefore beatest thou thy brother?" At this, "the camel knew Jesus, having felt the love of God in him." Jesus proclaims that he has come to end the temple sacrifices, and after his resurrection, goes to the temple and puts an end to the sacrifices with a replay of the temple cleansing episode. There is no Passover lamb at the Last Supper; Judas Iscariot asks why there isn't any meat to eat. That's the thematic difference: Jesus now supports vegetarianism and has an agenda against animal cruelty.

www.tektonics.org... amusing at best imo

a reply to: Mazzini

Spurious indeed. What if the original gospel was one of the thousands that were outlawed and destroyed, and this is the fake version that was copied and left for us to find? Dun dun duun..... It's just as likely as any other story.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

So according to jesus, camels are our brothers? Bam!! Evolution in the bible.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Anything is possible. I am just unwilling to accept that the story of Jesus that we have is the original. I don't have any clue if this Gospel is legit, but it is a good topic to start a discussion about the historical Yeshua vs the mythical Jesus.

I do believe that Yeshua was an Essene because the Bible hints at it a few times that if you have knowledge of the ancient Essene orders the Nazarenes, Theraputae and Zadikkim it's more than obvious.

There is talk of the sons of yesha' in the Dead Sea Scrolls, yesha' meaning salvation not the name of a person. But it is intriguing nonetheless.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Spurious is a term I would also apply to the Gospels we have that are taken on faith as truth.

So I don't have a problem with alternative Gospels possibility of being true.

But I make no claims either way about the OP Gospel. I just thought it was something that some people might like to know about, spurious or otherwise.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm not a Christian anyway, so I agree that either scenario is just as likely.

I like my mythology, which is what I call religion. I don't believe it's purpose is to be taken as literal history. I actually believe that that has slowed human progress in many aspects.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

It's most likely that since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls that orders have formed calling themselves Essenes, with no real connection to the ancient Essenes, and are capitalizing off the Jesus myth in no more honorable a fashion than the RCC. Of course, they need something to stand on doctrinally and found this and said, let's use it.

originally posted by: Mazzini
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm not a Christian anyway, so I agree that either scenario is just as likely.

I like my mythology, which is what I call religion. I don't believe it's purpose is to be taken as literal history. I actually believe that that has slowed human progress in many aspects.

I agree. I love religion as mythology.

a reply to: Mazzini

Anything is possible. I am just unwilling to accept that the story of Jesus that we have is the original. I don't have any clue if this Gospel is legit, but it is a good topic to start a discussion about the historical Yeshua vs the mythical Jesus.

Well the Gospels that we have today we had yesterday because of the early Church fathers quoting them .When one thinks about a myth there are two ways of approaching it . Something was true and made into a myth because the truth is always first . The sources closest to the truth will be the best to look at .The standard Gospels hold that position .The Gnostic's and all that follows (pseudepigraphs) will be less reliable . It is what it is .

a reply to: Woodcarver

That's why I don't have time to even read this. I just got the Nag Hammadi Library the other day, even though I can read it online. Ihave my hhands full with that at the moment and it's way more important in terms of discovery of previously thought lost Gospels, imo. And fascinating.

I also have the Lost books of the Bible and the Forgotten books of Eden. That's a good read too.

In addition to reading the Jerusalem bible daily and the Koran, I just don't have time to read this.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Some of the so called Gnostic Gospels that were found in Egypt were quoted by and written about by pre Constantine Church fathers. Some are based off Persian and Greek accumulated wisdom. They are a diverse collection.

But the closest thing to a historical documentation of the Essenes, the community that produced Yeshua are the Dead Sea Scrolls. I don't know how much of them have been released to the public, but I would bet my last dollar that they are hoarding the most important ones.

You can read the released ones on the internet but it is like reading a redacted FBI file sometimes.

a reply to: Mazzini

Some of the so called Gnostic Gospels that were found in Egypt were quoted by and written about by pre Constantine Church fathers

Well even the document you presented in the op quotes some of the early stuff as well . It may come down to studying the variants from the standards . Hey there was a Jesus , and He ......... Some claim He was a Myth but that falls into a small group .Even the Gnostics can be understood that He was a real person that existed . When they claim that He was not something then you can be sure they are trying to counter what has already been said . It can be a big puzzle to put together and you might choose to leave the borders of the picture for the end but you have to start somewhere . Start with Jesus and think about what that means ,.. I think even Mohammed had some things to say about Him .Although it was a few years removed from the time .Start there and move back ...

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Phillip are likely legitimate or based off legitimate Gospels.

I think the most spurious works relating to Jesus belong to the epistles of Paul. That guy was a complete lowlife even by ancient standards.

And he is the founder of Christianity.

The Jerusalem church of James the Just(Zaddik) was annihilated by the Roman church started by that sleeze Paul.

History is a mess, a puzzle like you say. I have a pretty good idea what that puzzle looks like when completed and it's nothing like what we have been led to believe. As far as religion is concerned.

a reply to: Mazzini

Well you are at a later date then a better date to start but you can go back further .The manuscript of the Coptic text (CG II), found in 1945 at Nag Hammadi, Egypt, is dated at around 340 AD. en.wikipedia.org... The RCC is much later then Paul from the new testament .Not likley he started it ...If he had then being the first Pope might have been a better route for the RCC to take .They say Peter but that seems to be far from the truth of the matter .

a reply to: Mazzini

back again with your nonsense.

ATS will catch you and ban you again and again and again.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Mazzini

back again with your nonsence.

ATS will catch you and ban you again and again and again.

Does anyone know why this guy is being a troll and calling my thread nonsense?

I don't recall doing anything nonsensical, so you can imagine my confusion.

I am just trying to discuss something I found interesting. I am not forcing my beliefs, or lack of, on anyone or doing anything that should bother anyone.

John Chester, whoever you are, you need to get over whatever your problem is. You basically only replied with off topic harassment of my right to post a thread topic that you don't like.

You have nothing to say that adds to the discussion in a fruitful or positive manner, so move on.

You can make an I hate free speech and pseudepigrapha thread if you want, I won't bother you, I promise.

Troll.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

James was the appointed successor of Jesus. The Jewish branch of what would become Christianity.

Paul was the founder of Gentile Christianity. This would become the RCC. The Jewish branch of Christianity is all but absent from the historical record. The only surviving branch of the Essenes were the Ebionites and they were JTB loyalists who never adopted the Messiah( I am pretty sure).

Rome exterminated anything that was not RCC approved, violently oppressing all who would dare question the official canon.

I am glad I was born in this era.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Mazzini

back again with your nonsence.

ATS will catch you and ban you again and again and again.

I just thought, for the sake of humor, that you misspelled nonsense. You don't know how to spell nonsense then you aren't qualified to determine it.

a reply to: Mazzini

Oh yes almighty one who never misspells a word but will lie through his teeth on a daily basis.