This is why we NEED Donald Trump----another absolutely STUPID Obama business venture!

originally posted by: DBCowboy
This is the problem with big government or even socialist government.

Safety nets.

There is no risk to investors anymore. Not if government is going to underwrite every investment opportunity.

And if there is no risk, there is no drive to succeed. The investors never have to push for success because they never have to worry about going broke. Our money, tax payer money, covers their losses.

If investors actually had to risk their futures on new ideas, we'd probably see more drive, more urgency in succeeding.

This I agree with, in the UK their is a debate about superfast broadband and why what has been promised hasn't arrived. The problem is the company trying to upgrade the infostructure is a private government funded company all the major internet providers are invested in it. The problem is nobody seems accountable and it isn't working. It's a sinkhole for government funds, nobody but the tax payer will feel the burden.

just because a government commissioned a project it doesn't mean it gives companies permission to hold government fiscally accountable. Threatening closures or loss of jobs if government can't bail it out is a company basically holding government to ransom.

a reply to: theantediluvian

~~sigh~~ I am not a shill for the fossil fuel industry. I think shenanigans are going on all over the place between government and crony corporations. All of it needs to be exposed and evaluated by people that know what they're doing for the benefit of The American Taxpayer.

But, you don't see Exxon, or Marathon, or Shell going out of business right and left after duping everybody, do you, with some stupid adventure that hasn't been properly thought through putting millions into somebody's pockets within a very short period of time!

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: Sargeras

Lol it said a fraction if you wanna be knit picky and each example you gave is multiples as in fractions.

it produced 45% output and 68% output. It would be better implied that the plant produced nearly half and just over 2/3 respectively.

You know fine well it is worded in a way to imply the plant produced a miniscule amount of energy compared to what was promised. Don't you?

Is 1/2 not in reality, all hyperbole aside, a fraction of the power stated it would produce?

Is English not you first language?

Do you not understand simple gradeschool math concepts?

What else would it mean besides " a fraction" of the power?

You think it sounds better another way, but that doesn't change the facts of the matter at all.

It just sounds better to you.

Like instead of " we wasted 1.6 billing dollars and it failed. "

" we invested 1.6 billion dollars and it didnt workout as well as we hoped"

Both mean the exact same thing.

a reply to: kaylaluv

And casinos. Don't forget those.

We'll get Trump to figure out our energy needs for the future. He's had thoughts...he said so himself. If that doesn't work he'll beat the crap out of the sun until it produces more energy for us.

The purpose of ventures like this is not to make a profit. These are not business decisions.

I don't know enough about this particular project to know whether it can be considered successful by any reasonable measure, but I do know that whether it lost money isn't a reasonable measure.

originally posted by: Greggers

The purpose of ventures like this is not to make a profit.

Did you read the article? The money was loaned for a 'venture' owned by private businesses. The goal of private enterprise is to make a profit.

a reply to: Sargeras

Yes I understand secondary school math, I have a reasonable grasp on my first language english also.

I don't see the need to debate forms of communication regardless if it was aimed as a snide remark. I think we both can understand the simplicity of what I was implying.

That the article in question was worded to imply that this plant has been an absolute failure. I stated considering this is a new form of renewable energy it didn't do too bad considering.

Just for sake of arguement, advanced gas-cooled Nuclear reactors such as the ones commissioned in the UK in the 1980's was sold as the best and safest energy around but those plants have been riddled with problems... things like jellyfish stuck in the pipes used to supply the seawater that cools the reactor.

All new forms of energy production have setbacks. Finances aside this project showed results. and since the plant ain't xlosed yet it hasn't failed yet has it?

Well maybe it will be fixed sometime after October 19, 2281 by a random courier.

But seriously, that amount of money could have been better spent on a more proven technology.

No one needs Donald trump. He will destroy this country. His trash mouth will bring bombs down on our heads. His classless demeanor will be an embarrassment as he's already been. He's a clown who doesn't have a clue.

Here's an old article from 2011.

It shows the corruption and the ties to Robert Kennedy Jr.

I remember some old threads on ATS also and many people who were exposing this boondoggle were called crazy.

It has to do with a “green energy” company called BrightSource Energy Inc., which develops solar energy products (or intends to someday, anyway). In 2010, BrightSource was in deep trouble. It was $1.8 billion in debt and was losing money hand over fist–a $71.6 million loss on a mere $13.5 million in revenue. A company destined to go down the drain, one would think. But no! The Obama administration bailed out BrightSource to the tune of a cool $1.4 billion in loan guarantees.

How could that possibly have happened? Well, start with the fact that the principal investor in BrightSource is VantagePoint Partners. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is a Venture Partner in VantagePoint.

Another Obama Scandal In the Making

originally posted by: dothedew
From the description of how this plant functions, it seems like a middle school science project, upscale several thousand times. They actually procured funding for this?

It would have taken only high school level math to calculate if it would have worked or not BEFORE they built the damn thing.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: queenofswords

Now, there's Ivanpah! This is the kind of waste and abuse Trump talks about and the absolute stupidity of our government leaders who haven't got a clue.

Ivanpah. Wasn't that one of Trump's wives?

Troll.

Unproductive.

Thread drift.

a reply to: queenofswords

You're right, shill was a very poor choice of words. Shilling is what Fox News and Daily Caller do. You're just aiding their efforts.

Billionaire Saudi prince unloads most of his stake in News Corp

Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal said Wednesday that his company will shed most of its stake in Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., taking its 6.6% ownership down to 1%. But while Alwaleed's Kingdom Holding Company will reduce its stake in News Corp. (NWSA),it will maintain its 6.6% holding of Murdoch's entertainment company, 21st Century Fox (FOXA).

"We have a strategic alliance with Rupert Murdoch for sure and I have been with him for the last 15 or 20 years," Alwaleed said. "My backing of Rupert Murdoch is definitely unwavering."

New Book Exposes Koch Brothers' Guide To Infiltrating The Media

The Koch brothers and their network have had a hand in creating several "news" outlets that echo the Kochs' conservative, anti-government message: The Daily Caller, The Washington Free Beacon, and the Franklin Center.

The Daily Caller was founded by financial investor Foster Friess, a major Koch donor who has attended many of the Kochs' annual summits and donated at least $1 million to conservative causes that the Kochs support. Friess provided $3 million in seed funding to The Daily Caller, a conservative website which, according to Mayer, has "functioned more as an outlet for opposition research paid for by the donor class." Charles Koch's foundation would later back the website, and the Daily Caller News Foundation is currently listed as a "partner organization" of the Charles Koch Institute. Tucker Carlson, co-founder and editor-in-chief of The Daily Caller, also has other ties to the Kochs: He joined the Cato Institute in 2009, which the Koch brothers co-founded, and he is currently listed as a senior fellow there. The Cato Institute has received millions of dollars from the Koch family, and David Koch currently sits on Cato's board of directors. Mayer notes that The Daily Caller was "the chosen receptacle" for the Kochs' retaliatory attacks on her after The New Yorker published an exposé she wrote on the Kochs in 2010.

After the Kochs started receiving some bad publicity, Koch Industries hired Michael Goldfarb to improve the company's image. Later, in 2012, Goldfarb founded The Washington Free Beacon, and he remains its chairman. The website has published articles defending the Kochs, attacking their opponents, advancing the Kochs' criticisms of President Obama and Sen. Harry Reid, and promoting their agenda. Plus whatever this is.

a reply to: xuenchen



That's the kind of research I'm talking about!! Very interesting, Xuenchen. Bam!

a reply to: theantediluvian

....and that has WHAT do do with the facts in this thread?

a reply to: RAY1990

So do you think they should get the grant?

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: Sargeras

Yes I understand secondary school math, I have a reasonable grasp on my first language english also.

I don't see the need to debate forms of communication regardless if it was aimed as a snide remark. I think we both can understand the simplicity of what I was implying.

That the article in question was worded to imply that this plant has been an absolute failure. I stated considering this is a new form of renewable energy it didn't do too bad considering.

Just for sake of arguement, advanced gas-cooled Nuclear reactors such as the ones commissioned in the UK in the 1980's was sold as the best and safest energy around but those plants have been riddled with problems... things like jellyfish stuck in the pipes used to supply the seawater that cools the reactor.

All new forms of energy production have setbacks. Finances aside this project showed results. and since the plant ain't xlosed yet it hasn't failed yet has it?

And yet fossil fuels make plenty of power at a " fraction" of the cost, to get a "fraction"of the power from these money pit pipe dreams.

Why waste billions to get a fraction of the power we currently get from millions of dollars worth of fossil fuels?

All I see is wasted resources achieving nothing, at tremendous expense.

Should we try these technologies to achieve green energy, yes.

Small scale small cost until it actually works, instead of full scale great cost huge waste.

Let's not forget that the Solyndra thing was a loan that's been paid back in full. Unlike Oil subsidies that never get paid back.

I'd call that a win? You loan a cutting edge technology company money and the government get's paid back. Tell me again how that's a fiasco? LOL

I hope you realize Trump is a terrible terrible business person. His dad pretty much handed him his fortune. And if he has put that fortune into just an index, he would be worth 8 bils. No business needed. But with his terrible meddling, he only has 1 even if that. Some people value him to be worth like 250 mils...

So stop it with Trump and great business deal. You trump supporters need to read a book or two on the current economy. The Stock Market is as highest as it's been in the last decade. The US economy is doing great. 200k new jobs per month. Unemployment as low as ever. If you're struggling in this thriving economy, it's YOU, not the ECONOMY.

It's time to stop talking Trash about out great President. He's done more for this country from where Bush left it. A pile of #. When I graduated in that day, I couldn't find a job with an Engineering Degree. All my friends and classmate couldn't either. After Obama took office, we ended a war, provides millions of new jobs. Trump will be worst than Bush. If he runs the US anything like his # business, we well be in major major debts and then war. The dude looks like a creep. You can't vote for a comb over like that. Dude can't even get a hair transplant? All that money he's got?