The Scottish Rite in English Freemasonry - the Christian entrance requirement dilemma

a reply to: Tsuro

You are not making any sense again. I have no idea what you are talking about.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

as long as cthulhu i left out, im fine..

a reply to: Tsuro

What does that mean and how does it relate to the topic?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I've often wondered if the tradition came from the Picts, themselves masons in the literal sense - these were the mighty broch builders, after all - particularly when you consider the emblems on the some of the stones they left behind for us:

a reply to: beansidhe

Great photo.

I think some of the symbols tend to be universal; the Square, Compasses, Plumb, etcetera. If you are building structures you would require these to ensure that it is built solidly.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Saurus

I know parts of the York Rite in the US have a "Christian only" requirement, and I believe an oath is taken to defend Christianity or something. (not a member

I am a member of the Knights Templar and Knights of Malta, and had to take an oath to defend the Christian values (which I have no problem with).

I find myself in a strange situation, where one Christian-only Degree (the Knights Templar) has been of immense value to me, whereas I find I have not gained much from the other (the Scottish Rite) due to its Christian nature.

I therefore find the Grand Lodge's comment on the 18th Degree not being useful to non-Christians to hold at least some validity, while at the same time strongly agreeing with Pike that it ceases to be Freemasonry if members of all religions are not welcome, because we all believe in the same God and the same values.

I have a mental contradiction going on in my mind which I am trying to resolve. It all started when I argued in another recent thread vehemently against an atheist that as an atheist he could not learn the true secrets of Masonry, and I find myself in a similar position in the 18th degree (but being non-Christian, not atheist. However, at the same time, I cannot condone a Masonic body excluding someone based on his man-made religion.

I guess this mental conflict is why I started this thread.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

im gonna go back to study your core and foundation, cause its interesting and it actually is part of my studies.. but as far as i have come, i have as a non- mason and a secularized naturalist an opinion that, yes its a must.. And if it is a no, then the door is locked and shut.. Its because of different cultural as Pike calls it "Dogma and Morals".. Its nothing personal, its just different..

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I found that all of the Degrees I have seen have been performed to underscore what was taught in the Blue Lodge and that the metaphor(s) used in each can cause one to rethink different aspects of those lessons.

This is what I am ultimately hoping for. Perhaps it will just take more time and contemplation to discover the secrets.

Perhaps this is why there are different Degrees in Masonry, because we respond to different stimuli in different ways - different Degrees to drive home the same lessons but in different ways, each appealing more or less strongly to different peoples' consciences.

a reply to: Tsuro

I have no idea what you just said.

a reply to: Saurus

It all started when I argued in another recent thread vehemently against an atheist that as an atheist he could not learn the true secrets of Masonry,

Why do you think that?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It means, no.

a reply to: Saurus

Fraternal Greetings My Brother,
Namaste and may Peace be with you!

I am a Co-Freemason of the "International Order of Freemasonry for Men & Women, Le Droit Humain".

Alexander Francois Auguste de Grasse Tilly, who helped establish the Scottish Rite in the U.S., afterward travelled to his homeland of France and introduced the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite in France by helping to found the Supreme Council of France. The Supreme Council of France, the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite, and the Grande Orient de France were, by default, amalgamated and united under a single authority.

The "Grande Orient de France" extends the complete freedom of belief, opinion, and conviction to its members, therefore, allowing the conferment all of the degrees of the Scottish Rite to Freemasons regardless of religious belief.

As "Le Droit Human" originally splintered from the "Grande Orient de France", L.D.H. shares the same history and legacy of the Grade Orient. Therefore, L.D.H. also confers all of the degrees of the Scottish Rite upon men and women regardless of personal deistic/atheistic beliefs. "Le Droit Humain" works, inclusively, the First Three Degrees of Craft Masonry, the 33 Degrees of the Scottish Rite, and the Degrees of the York Rite.

a reply to: Tsuro

If you say so.

originally posted by: Tsuro
a reply to: Saurus

It all started when I argued in another recent thread vehemently against an atheist that as an atheist he could not learn the true secrets of Masonry,

Why do you think that?

An example of why is that Freemasonry charges us to "study the hidden mysteries of Nature and Science, the better to know our maker" This is pretty pointless if we don't believe in a Maker.

Another example is that one of lessons contained in Masonry is that we need not fear death, because an afterlife exists. A member on this site once said: "The requirement of belief in a deity to join a lodge is important in that it establishes that you have a belief in a continuance of self after death. This particular concept is important to Freemasons because it means that there's something worth working towards. This then engenders a behavioral pattern more akin to that of a master builder building a monument to all that will survey it."

Then the purpose of many of the additional Orders is to speculate on the nature of our Maker. This is rather pointless if we don't believe in a Supreme being.

There are many other examples, but these should suffice to illustrate my point.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If i say so? Well its kinda obvious, isnt it? Or this thread wouldnt exist, would it?

Try sometimes, to learn, its a part of life.. And then you teach others about your mistakes not dogmas..

a reply to: Tsuro

Northing is obvious with you as you are rather incomprehensible.

a reply to: Saurus

uhm.. i.. am probably not the right one.. a freemason would probably be better answering this.. sry, hope you find your answer.. dont lose faith

a reply to: Saurus

An example of why is that Freemasonry charges us to "study the hidden mysteries of Nature and Science, the better to know our maker" This is pretty pointless if we don't believe in a Maker.

Then the purpose of many of the additional Orders is to speculate on the nature of our Maker. This is rather pointless if we don't believe in a Supreme being.

In my opinion, it's all honestly a matter of semantics and relativity. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, and secular-Scientists, amongst others, are all observing the same truths and the same existence. It is the relativity of our upbringing, environment, societal-culture, experiences, knowledge, understanding, and mind that seeks subjective conclusions of the very real truths and existence that we all share. Existence versus Reality.

Even in Christian and Deistic terms,... a non-Christian or atheist of open-minded wisdom and understanding can easily relate the religious concepts to one's own relative and subjective views of existence.


P.S.

For example, we do not need to be followers of Greco-Roman, Egyptian, or Norse mythology to take advantage of the lessons, morals, and wisdom of the sagas. We do not need to be fabulists to appreciate or learn from Aesop's Fables or the various "fairy tales" around the world.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

get your head checked, sincerely regards a Gypo, oh sry you had to be a Christian to understand the last remark...

a reply to: Tsuro

My head is fine, thanks for your concern.