The Rise of the Survivalist Right

the survivalist is the most overt manifestation of fascism. The survivalist is convinced that a major catastrophe is imminent and that all must be on guard against it. Survivalism is also political, since survivalist groups share common anti-semitic, anti-black, sexist sentiments, and this bigotry is in fact a large part of the survivalist movement. The survivalist is also heavily armed. The hit squad from the survivalist group that assassinated Alan Berg used Ingram MAC 10 pistols, modified to full auto mode.

Zionism is seen as a major threat by the survivalist, and hence the anti-jew sentiments.

Survivalism was, up until recently, a uniquely american phenomenon. From America, the movement was exported to other parts of the world.

thoughts?

Examples? Links? Facts? Perhapse we would share our thoughts if we had anywhere to draw them from. Who's part of this survivalism?

well, here is a link for some related literature:

users.skynet.be...

also, one of the largest survivalist right wing movements, the Christian Identity Movement: religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu...

[edit on 12-1-2005 by General Zapata]

Originally posted by General Zapata
the survivalist is the most overt manifestation of fascism. The survivalist is convinced that a major catastrophe is imminent and that all must be on guard against it.

While this would be true of many, it is not true of all. I for one don't feel it is necessarily imminent, just possible, maybe likely. I would rather be prepared and not need then need it and not be prepared

Survivalism is also political, since survivalist groups share common anti-semitic, anti-black, sexist sentiments, and this bigotry is in fact a large part of the survivalist movement.

Again, not all groups. Not even most groups. News media is in the entertainment business, people don't want the real news; how boring would a report be of a survivalist group that wasn't any of the above?
You need violence, fear, and something to piss people off (bigotry.) That’s what sells, that’s what makes money.

Another point, the demonization of the survivalists was looked at as necessary by the government in the 90's, and they did everything in their power to make it look evil and fanatical. Just look at Tim McVeigh; the guy was actually KICKED OUT of militia meetings he crashed for being to extreme. But that didn't stop the government and news agencies from blurting out the word militia in every other sentence involving him. To this day, many (most?) people think he was a member of the militia movement.

They just can't stop using the words militia and survivalist for every domestic terrorist or person the want to demonize. Look at Carl Drega. He was an old man who the government harassed and victimized every chance they got, until one day they pulled him over in a PARKING LOT that they had been waiting in for him to exit the store, so they could pull him over for having RUST HOLES in his pickup bed! Well, he had enough shot the cop, took his patrol car, and proceeded to use others who had harassed him for years as target practice. No one cared when he called nearly every news agency in his state begging for help from anyone for years, but the news agencies sure did eat it up when he got revenge. Law enforcement found "survivalist leaflets and books" in his shop, and that was all they needed. Although he was not a militia member, he was called every name in the book, from militia member to gun nut to right wing extremist. They blow it out of proportion every time, and you people lap it up, play into their hands.

Every time they do something bad to someone who lives out in the country, all they have to do to cover it up is call him a militia member or extremist. Lon Horiuchi (I hope I spelled his name wrong) shoots Vicki weaver in the face while she is in her kitchen armed with her dangerous INFANT CHILD and it’s OK, because her husband was a racist, a survivalist

I could go on and on, the list of those victimized in the name governing is endless. The point is you buy every thing they try and sell you about the subject. Never mind that the leader of one of the biggest militias in the 90's was BLACK. Never mind that some of the largest "right wing extremist" groups are Jewish in origin (see: Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. I love those guys; they make the NRA look like a group of snivel liberals.)

survivalist is also heavily armed.

Our whole damn country is heavily armed! For that matter, our whole damn world is heavily armed. What’s your point there?

The hit squad from the survivalist group that assassinated Alan Berg used Ingram MAC 10 pistols, modified to full auto mode.

Would you feel better if they had used bolt action riffles? A gun is a gun. Is a full auto pistol pointed at your head scarier then a revolver?

Zionism is seen as a major threat by the survivalist, and hence the anti-jew sentiments.

I am a “survivalist” and I love Jews. I think it is the way you say it that is so offending. Would you get away with saying “fried chicken and watermelon are loved by the black man?” No, you would be flamed; so why do you get away with saying “seen as a major threat by the survivalist” as if we are all one group, we all know each other, we all believe the same thing? Again, a small group of percentage that was used by the government/media to demonize the rest. Keep buying it, be a good little sheep.

thoughts?

Yeah, get informed, don’t believe everything you hear.

I doubt you are a survivalist. Not unless you have weapon caches and food supplies stocked in your bomb shelter, you are not a survivalist. Not in the widely used definition of the word, anyway. The actual survivalist movement (or at least all the literature I have read about the survivalist movement is that of a heavy affilitation with the christian right. It was implied that unless you hold these racist views, you are not a survivalist, period. Perhaps you are talking about a less extremist ideology, but it certainly isn't survivalism.

Originally posted by General Zapata
I doubt you are a survivalist. Not unless you have weapon caches and food supplies stocked in your bomb shelter, you are not a survivalist. Not in the widely used definition of the word, anyway. The actual survivalist movement (or at least all the literature I have read about the survivalist movement is that of a heavy affilitation with the christian right. It was implied that unless you hold these racist views, you are not a survivalist, period. Perhaps you are talking about a less extremist ideology, but it certainly isn't survivalism.

Nope, were talking about the same thing, but your perceptions are off.

Food supplies? Yes, so what? Does it hurt to be prepared for anything?

Bomb shelter? Nope, but because I can't afford to have one built and I am not a land owner. My dream is to build an atrium style underground house in Oregon, though, and it would double as a fallout shelter.

"Gun caches?" Sounds like a phrase meant to make it sound extreme, but what would qualify? I have enough guns to do the trick, and enough extras to hand out/trade if the need arises. Do I have hundreds? No. Do I have Machine guns and hand grenades? No.

You forgot one; we hoard gold and silver. Yep, I love silver. Past, present and future, gold and silver have value. The dollar is play money, but you will always be able to trade with gold. Yep, another one of our weird traits.

So far as not being a part of the "survivalist movement," like you said, it started here in America, so I think I would know what you are referring to.
It is widely held by many on the left that survivalist or militia members are all Neo-Nazis or Christian Identity. I understand why you think this; they are given the most press because the rest of us are boring and harmless. You perception, however, is flawed. I am not at all racist, anti-Semitic, fundamental Christian or fascist. I would, however, be described by all who know me as a "survivalist, gun-nut, right-wing extremist." I was harassed in high school for it by the admin. (after Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the bombing in OKC anyone wearing black BDU pants and combat boots was concidered evil, racist and dangerous) I was harassed (and investigated) for it in the military, and even my wife calls me "extreme." Good enough? I am a part of the sub-culture you are talking about, and I am none of the bad things unless you consider food storing and gun collecting bad. We are not all what the media and government has made us out to be! Their real problem with us is our views on the illegal tax code, our ways around it, and our problem with the illegal socialist government that has taken over our republic by force. They fear us, and they want to gather public support against us.

If you didn't know what a survivalist is, just say so and change your post title. You cannot tell us what we are. You cannot define a word to suit your idea. You cannot define a movement to suit your perception. If you meant the racist minority of the survivalist movement, then say so. I don’t think you will, that would mean changing your perception of the movement, and I don’t think you are willing to do that; it's not interesting enough that way.

Remember, there are some who call your namesake a terrorist, General. They would defend their meaning of the word terrorist (or socialist/communist) to the death, because it fits the image they want to portray in order to garner support. Does this make them right? You know the truth, right? No matter the propaganda or the people who believe it, you know what your ideals are, and where they fit, no matter what some article says.

Don’t believe everything you read.


I am going to bed, I will give some links in the morning.

You can't make generalisations that survivalists are racists. There does involve a high degree of ego and superiority in the survivalist, as they think there is something in their genes that is worth preserving. But I don't think that has anything to do with race, regardless of whether the majority of survivalists are white.

You don't need a bomb shelter or "gun cache" to be a survivalist. You can be an urban survivalist, one who is experienced and cultured in day to day survival within a sprawling metropolis. Be that from thugs, scams, basic inner city occurances. I read an interview with a survivalist who resides in New York City. He had a network of other survivalists in the city and had preparations, bug-out kit and LOP designated should an event occur. Pretty strange?

As well, I don't think that survivalism was born by Americans at all. In fact, and no offense, but that's a kinda ridiculous assumption. Organised and advertised chapters of survivalists maybe, but man has been a survivalist since...forever.

Edit: I might add that the media has demonised survivalists as redneck racist paranoids and as a result whenever the word "survivalist" is mentioned, a pre-conceived media portrayed stigma is immediately drawn on by the masses.


[edit on 13-1-2005 by cargo]

Just something I remembered to add. I think you may be confusing/associating Militias with Survivalists. And I don't think survivalism is unique to the right. Militias are maybe, but there is nothing to suggest that left-thinking people lack prepardness or the will to survive. In fact I'd say that more left-thinking people tend to grow their own vegetables and move towards being more self-sufficient as long as those who are primary producers for their career are not included.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by cargo]

Zapata

You have shown you haven't a clue to what the "Survivalist" is, what you know is what the media and government SAY we are.

Cav is a lot closer to the average survivalist then McVeih. I live in the HEARTLAND of Survivalists (Northwest Arkansas) and yes we have a few kooks who get ALL the attention but we are no more racist as a group then anyone else.

I AM A SURVIVALIST.

I have noticed several others on this board. It is more a matter of self reliance and Independence than hiding in a cave awaiting the end of the world

I dont understand the Christian link with survivalists made here. What exactly are they planning on surviving? The rapture?

www.survivalforum.com...

www.backwoodshome.com...

www.survival-center.com...

www.frugalsquirrels.com...


Here you go Gerneral Z, get smart.

Originally posted by cargo
I dont understand the Christian link with survivalists made here. What exactly are they planning on surviving? The rapture?

Yes, among other things. The "survivalist movement" is something between what General and you describe. It’s not about racism as General Z thinks, but it is more than just survival, as you think. It is a movement, a culture that has more in common than just growing plants and shooting guns. It is hard to separate it from the militia movement, and most don’t try. It is an ideology that generally can be described as a love of freedom, a problem with authority, and a desire to return to the constitution.

Survivalists and the militias are usually grouped together as the "patriot movement." The patriot movement can generally be described as being against taxation, against abortion, against gun-control, and anti-socialist. For these reasons, most are considered "right-wing." The fundamental Christians have usually held similar beliefs and many of them gravitated toward the patriot movement. I don't know much about the Christian Identity movement myself, having always been suspicious of organized religion. Maybe others can clue in a little better, that’s about I can tell you of the Christian side of the patriot movement.

Originally posted by cavscout
Remember, there are some who call your namesake a terrorist, General.

haha. point well taken, friend.

Don’t believe everything you read.

awww....but its so much easier than original thought and research

Originally posted by Amuk
Zapata

You have shown you haven't a clue to what the "Survivalist" is, what you know is what the media and government SAY we are.

very true. I really don't know anything about survivalism. But I couldn't very well start a topic about it and say 'does anyone know what a survivalist is?'. Thankyou for enlightening me.

Originally posted by General Zapata
But I couldn't very well start a topic about it and say 'does anyone know what a survivalist is?'. Thankyou for enlightening me.

LOL no problem. I might need to dust off my definition from the links it seems to have become a lot more commercialized than I remember.

Originally posted by Amuk
I might need to dust off my definition from the links it seems to have become a lot more commercialized than I remember.

HaHa, sorry about that. To tell the truth, I havn't explored those sites much, they just sit there in my favorites for years and I forget them untill something like this reminds me. Damn ATS, I can't keep up with other pages when I spend 5 hours a day here!

What you described might be the case in America, Cavscout. But elsewhere survivalists are not generally anti-socialist. There is much talk about what skills maybe necessary to be a valuable member of a small independent community post-TSHTF. There is a realisation that community is partly a foundation for survival. When I say "they" when I asked what they plan on surviving, I am referring to the American survivalists. Which I have come to find out have a very different mentality than in other parts of the world (overtly Christian). And in a country as controlled as the US and with such a large population, I can understand the need to create organisation. I know exactly what survivalism means in my own country.

You seem to be right about it being difficult to seperate "survivalist" and "militia" in the US, and that is very different from here. In fact I would just describe them as a US Militia, period. The Amish could be perceived as survivalists. Its about getting back to fundamentals in the event of a catastrophe, and being able to sustain a community based on necessity. As a survivalist, you should be content with living your way in your place. Laying low.

The sheeple running up their credit cards at malls and worrying about wrinkle cream will know exactly what they are in for when they realise that the ATMs have died, supermarkets have been depleted and emergency services goes unanswered. They will wish they spent a bit of time and money making preparations. Otherwise, when they come around to loot my home, they'll get a first hand lesson - rule #1 how to survive.

cavscout, those sites that you have given seem to describe the practicalities of the survivalist lifestyle and ideology without mentioning any of the points of view held by adherents to survivalism. Are the anti-semitic, anti-black sentiments that I have read about just plainly non-existent, exaggerated or downplayed?

Originally posted by General Zapata
cavscout, those sites that you have given seem to describe the practicalities of the survivalist lifestyle and ideology without mentioning any of the points of view held by adherents to survivalism. Are the anti-semitic, anti-black sentiments that I have read about just plainly non-existent, exaggerated or downplayed?

They are not completely non-existent, but they are definitely exaggerated by the media and government, and probably downplayed by most in the patriot movement. The thing to remember is there are many groups of people to consider. While some groups that are racist in nature are grouped in with the militias by government agencies, such as the large neo-Nazi movement in the Pacific North West, most of us do not affiliate ourselves with these types at all. I would have to say that there are more anti-Semitic beliefs then racist by far, although even anti-Semitic feelings are not the norm. We tend to be individuals and "loners," and are generally suspicious of other groups in general, and I think this where a lot of it comes from. They may not hate Jews, they just don’t trust them AS A GROUP, any more then they would trust a corporation or government agency. So, basically, there are different "factions" in the movement, and the white supremacists are the minority.

Where I think most of those reports come from is the neo-Nazi culture, which for the most part doesn't fit any correct definition of militia or survivalist. Most of them are city and suburban dwelling street gangs, such as the Skin Heads. I grew up in Oregon, and we had the largest population of Skin Heads in the country. The gang was founded in Idaho and rapidly spread through the North West, but has subsided in recent years. The gang taskforce in Portland clumped them together with the militias, although the militias should not have been there in the first place and have since, last I heard, been removed.

There is a large and growing number of minorities joining militias, some are even predominantly black. I can’t remember the specifics off the top of my head, but I remember one of the largest militias in the 90s had a black leader (of course, the media ignored that inconvenient little fact.)

It is important to remember that the racist beliefs of some of the more notorious people in the survivalist movement are their personal ideologies, and often not the beliefs of any groups they belonged to. In fact, it is often these racist feelings and actions that made them notorious in the first place. The white supremacists are the vocal minority, and the only news-worthy element. The rest of us are by far the silent majority.

Did that help answer your question?