NEWS: EU, U.S. to Avoid Airbus-Boeing Legal Row: Airbus Expects A350 Aid Despite Pact

The United States and the European Union have agreed to try and reach an agreement and settle the Airbus - Boeing subsidies dispute. Setting aside sharp the sharp rhetoric on both sides both sides committed to stop subsidizing the world's two biggest aircraft makers during the three-month talks.

UPDATE: January 12, 2005 Airbus Expects A350 Aid Despite Pact

PARIS - European aircraft manufacturer Airbus SAS said Wednesday it still expects to receive government launch aid for its new A350 jet, a day after the EU and United States agreed to reopen negotiations on eliminating aircraft subsidies, averting a looming trade war.

Noel Forgeard, chief executive of the European aircraft maker, made the comments during a Paris news conference at which Airbus also said it outsold arch rival Boeing Co. in 2004 and expects to do so for a third straight year in 2005.

"The basis of the agreement is not that there will be no support," Forgeard said.
Launch Aid Expected

As I maintained in my series regarding one of the largest European jobs program the goal of all this is to force Airbus to compete on a level playing field with Boeing. Airbus earlier had indicated that it would despite not needing help, it would apply for its usual package of launch aid / subsidies for the new A350. It is unclear if they will now pursue it.

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
OP/ED: Airbus and Its Continued Subsidies By Europe (Part I)
OP/ED: Airbus and Its Continued Subsidies By Europe (Part II) - The 1992 LCAA and Japan
OP/ED: Airbus and Its Continued Subsidies By Europe (Part III) - The Case of Pratt & Whitney and the
Airbus A350 announced.


[edit on 16-1-2005 by Banshee]

Fred, how about instead of

the goal of all this is to force Airbus to compete on a level playing field with Boeing

force BOTH to compete on a level playing field-

Originally posted by JoeDoaks
Fred, how about instead of

the goal of all this is to force Airbus to compete on a level playing field with Boeing

force BOTH to compete on a level playing field-

Heh, who is the one being funded by many sources? Airbus! Since Boeing is local and a product of my country I just hope the best from them. Also knowing that business is crooked in all countries I hope that Boeing or and the U.S. government pull some strings to allow Boeing to come out on top in the long run.

Originally posted by JoeDoaks
[force BOTH to compete on a level playing field-

Joe, read through my entire 3 part op/ed on Airbus and I address the strawman issues that Airbus likes to harp on when it defends its persisent use of EU money in what has to be one of the most elaborate job programs ever. Furthermore, they use this easy money to sell planes in Asia at a loss for the sake of building market share. No I do not have a link and it is almost impossible to truly separate out Airbus profits and loss from its parent companies.

[edit on 1/11/05 by FredT]

I would love to post a reply to this thread, but it's probably best that I do not.

I guess since both manufacturers are working with an established customer base they will have to go to greater lenghts to will more buyers in an era where airlines are declining post Sep11. Perhaps they will incorporate new features better building smashing capabilities in some models and improved collistion avoidance in others. Maybe they could work on an airliner that shoots itself down when hijacked?

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I would love to post a reply to this thread, but it's probably best that I do not.

OTS you always have something informitive to add. Why the passive attitude the last few days?

Fred I did read your entire 'trilogy'

Loved it- real apple pie stuff / *wave flag*

It is that I do not see any difference in the two. One gets direct government help, the other back doors it. Same end result.

I like your reporting Fred- you are biased. I like biased people. Facts alone are so naked and uninteresting.

Boeing put its American competitors out of business and now wants to put AirBus out of business. Boeing is the arch-typical capitalist entity. -gobble, gobble, gobble*

Microsubversive (pun) HQs. near Boeing because something in the water there gives the corporate types the ability to destroy every competitor and make it look like competition.

This isn't free trade, it is corporate warfare. No holds and no prisoners.

.

Airbus expects its usual package of launch aid for the A350 despite the pact.

PARIS - European aircraft manufacturer Airbus SAS said Wednesday it still expects to receive government launch aid for its new A350 jet, a day after the EU and United States agreed to reopen negotiations on eliminating aircraft subsidies, averting a looming trade war.

Noel Forgeard, chief executive of the European aircraft maker, made the comments during a Paris news conference at which Airbus also said it outsold arch rival Boeing Co. in 2004 and expects to do so for a third straight year in 2005.

"The basis of the agreement is not that there will be no support," Forgeard said.
Launch Aid Expected

Joe,

See the above article, this is simply outrageous. I also love this little tidbit fromt he same article:

But Airbus vice president Philippe Delmas acknowledged that launch aid from Britain, France, Germany and Spain had reduced the cost of developing the A380 "superjumbo," set to enter service next year, and would also make the A350 "slightly cheaper."

"To have a diversified source of financing with the ratings stability of four European governments is very welcome," Delmas said.

Like a junkie begging his dealer for more smack, Airbus is once again continuing its legacy as the biggest jobs program Europe has ever seen.

Originally posted by JoeDoaks

It is that I do not see any difference in the two. One gets direct government help, the other back doors it. Same end result

Boeing put its American competitors out of business and now wants to put AirBus out of business. Boeing is the arch-typical capitalist entity. -gobble, gobble, gobble*

um hello, boeing isnt using government money to reduce cost and get an easy ride, airbus is, they are being deceptive free loaders, using charity instead of business clout. boeing has outdone competitors by good business, not by questionable practices such as government funds, youre the biased one here, just because boeing is successful dont mean they are greedy, they make good products you know.

Originally posted by namehere

um hello, boeing isnt using government money to reduce cost and get an easy ride, airbus is, they are being deceptive free loaders, using charity instead of business clout. boeing has outdone competitors by good business, not by questionable practices such as government funds, youre the biased one here, just because boeing is successful dont mean they are greedy, they make good products you know.

I can tell you haven't read the:
All American Trilogy: how the European Union cheats poor (but honest) American company trying to do the right thing By FredT (apple pie)

Boeing has top people in prison, fines up the kazoo, black listed by the Air Force, etc. and you (also ) don't see the duplicity?

'free loaders' Boeing charging the government for an executives dog care bills?

Boeing wrote the book

Does it matter how the money comes from the government? Boeing gets countless government contracts for their equipment plus the US airports that server boeing jets get government money as well. So whether I give you the check directly or hand it to someone else to pass along to you its the same. Airbus gets the same treatment there that Boeing gets here.

Originally posted by Indy
Does it matter how the money comes from the government? Boeing gets countless government contracts for their equipment plus the US airports that server boeing jets get government money as well.

Indy, read my 3 piece op/ed on that. Airports are commercial ventures by and large and the money comes from airlines and other sources. Also the airports don't care if they get Boeing and Airbus. In as far as governm,ent defence spending goes. Airbus and Boeing as my op/ed shows get the same.

The tax credits that the state of Washington gave Boeing is also avalible for Airbus, If Boeing wanted to set up a facility in Toulsane, i doubt the the French government would roll out the red carpet.

Airbus gets repayable loans from the EU member states.

Boeing has had umteen US gov 'research contracts' and military contracts.

In fact the US gov has given multi-billion dollar straight subsidies to the US airlines - more than once in the last 10yrs - which the airline then promptly used to retire their old planes and fund a shed-load of new (mostly US bulit Boeings).

Show me a parallel for that in Europe in the last 10yrs!

Yeah right.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Airbus gets repayable loans from the EU member states.

Repayable only after a certain profit level is reacehed and ONLY if the plane actually launches. If the A380 was a flop then not a dime would have to go back for the development costs.

Boeing has had umteen US gov 'research contracts' and military contracts.

Sminkey Sminkey :shk: Airbus's defecne contracts equals Boeing (actually exceded it by a small margin) how quicly you forget the lessons learned in my 3 part series. Boeing also has to compete with EADS, Lockheed, Northrop et al for contracts. EADS has to compete with who? BAE (Which by the way also has a chunk of the grand EU jobs program that is Airbus.

You also leave out that the US has to share any and all reserch and patents on large comercial aircraft with Airbus. Hmmmm how could we forget that? :shk:

Yes yes, Lets see all the major American Airlines except Delta I think have mixed fleets. United, American, etc have many Airbus products. Albeit almost no long haul aircraft. Jet Blue is all Airbus as a counter point to all Boeing Southwest. Im still waiting for my AWST source book for 2005 so I cannot give you exact figures.

And spare me the crying over governemnt support for the airlines eh? Hom many EU carriers untill recently were governemnt owned and operated?