Preppers

Heh, it seems like my threads are always rants.

Anyways, whats on my mind today is preppers. You all know them: people who spend inordinate amounts of time preparing for one inevitable doomsday or another, these people range from the fanatical to the practical. What they all have in common, is that something could happen, and they want to be ready for when it does.

I have 2 problems with this attitude. 1, it just seems futile and 2 overall its a waste.
1) Other than the few things that everybody should do(mainly storing of food and water), in the event of a fullscale SHTF scenario, even with all your preps, are you ever really prepared for the apocalypse? I mean, in the event of a global meltdown, what preps are really going to unsure your survival?

which leads me into my second point. If your preps can never fully ensure your survival, then isn't it pointless? Wouldn't it be better to then instead of making all these preps, to have instead used that time to prevent said apocalypse? allow me to reiterate: Wouldn't it be better if, instead of prepping for the survival of you and yours in a SHTF scenario, you and all those who felt the same fear and worry to come together and collaborate to ensure that such SHTF scenario never happened? It seems that to me this would have a much higher chance of success than the former model. After all, when human minds come together in collaboration, amazing things can happen.

Man, its really funny how practically every line of thought that I've been having as of late, pursued long enough, eventually leads me to the same thought. We as humans need to come together in a spirit of cooperation with the intent to grow and better ourselves. In any endeavor, communication is absolutely vital, and society is no different. Every aspect of our society that I can fathom rests at some point upon communication. So instead of living disjointed as we do, 7 billion separate individuals leading mostly separate lives, how about if we instead embraced that most basic aspect of our society, and each of us took the time to communicate to the rest about meaningful topics, in such a way as to generate useful action towards said topics? If we all communicated thusly, there could be no fostered hostility, as every time people sensed a disconnect, they would then begin to explore where it came from in an endeavor to remedy it. There could be no misjudgements.

Imagine if we incorporated communication as the most basic principle of Government? such a government could not rightly be called a government, because there would be no body of people in power over the rest, the entire people would come together to unsure the progress of the same. Even as I despair that humanity is doomed to slowly die a horrible, cancwerous death, I cannot but Dream of a world like I am trying to describe.

Call me idealistic or call me a fool, but I Will not stop working towards the tomorrow of my dreams. A world where every citizen stands a vanguard against corruption, and each stands with the rest against cruelty and oppression-a world where the hearts of men are ruled by compassion and virtue, and their minds with Justice and Patience... A world where men treasure Truth and genuinely seek to understand and help one another...

Inb4 some variation of 'the human is inherently corrupt' Yes, well I know, but see that in and of itself is one of two things-either a weight to drag us into the depths of corruption, because we see it as only natural, or a stepping stone out of the same. Knowledge can only ever be used to help or to hinder. How about instead of viewing this truth as something to excuse corrupt behavior, how about if instead we used that knowledge to guard against corruption? As the saying goes 'knowing is half the battle'.

Once you know your enemy, you can fight him that much more effectively. This is the same. We know that the human tends to corruption, therefore we have no excuse when we inevitably do. But rather than just leaning on this as an excuse, I think we should instead view it as a tool. 'So I know that people tend to corruption.' Knowing this, you can then begin to recognize it in oneself, and then can begin on rooting it out. Of course, you won't be able to fully succeed, but every battle won on this front is majorly incredible. Or with regards to government. 'So we know that corruption is inevitable. Knowing that, heres how I see we can work around that...'

I lost some of the arguments I was going to make and found a couple others, and I know that I am missing much. What say you, ATS?

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

2 overall its a waste.

Most preppers cycle their perishables so that there is no waste.

e instead used that time to prevent said apocalypse? allow me to reiterate: Wouldn't it be better if, instead of prepping for the survival of you and yours in a SHTF scenario, you and all those who felt the same fear and worry to come together and collaborate to ensure that such SHTF scenario never happened?

How do you keep a hurricane from happening? Or a tornado?

a reply to: butcherguy
You couldn't stop the hurricane or the tornado themselves, but there are multiple things a community of people could do to mitigate the effects...stronger houses, equal distribution of food, carving flood channels... A prepper preparing for a tornado might build him and his a shelter, stock up on food etc.... but a community of people could do far more for far more people.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
If your preps can never fully ensure your survival, then isn't it pointless?

Does washing your hands fully ensure you won't get sick? Does brushing your teeth fully ensure you'll never get a bad tooth? Does wearing a seatbelt fully ensure you won't die in a car wreck?

It's called mitigating your exposure, and it is a pretty damn smart thing to do.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
I get that, I'm arguing that if all these people wanting to mitigate the exposure for them and theirs instead came together with likeminded people, pooled resources and shared a constant meaningful dialogue followed by meaningful action, they would be able to do so much more mitigation for so many more people, that in comparison, the prepper prepping for himself seems foolish and wasteful.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
a reply to: burdman30ott6
I get that, I'm arguing that if all these people wanting to mitigate the exposure for them and theirs instead came together with likeminded people, pooled resources and shared a constant meaningful dialogue followed by meaningful action, they would be able to do so much more mitigation for so many more people, that in comparison, the prepper prepping for himself seems foolish and wasteful.

OK, so how does one mitigate against a natural disaster, or a EMP burst, or an invading (or domestic) enemy? Look at how many highly unpopular policies and programs have been enacted despite the majority of Americans yelling "NO!" Feeding, caring, and planning for yourself and your own is NEVER "foolish" or "wasteful."

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Lots of forums where preppers do exactly that. They share ideas, knowledge and meeting points for SHTF situations.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well, see, kinda my whole point is that w=one person cant come up with every answer, but my answer would be much the same as any prepper preps for these things, but on a much bigger scale. IDK, I'm not a prepper, how do prppers prepare for these things?
'Look at how many highly unpopular policies and programs have been enacted despite the majority of Americans yelling "NO!"- LOL that's a whole nother rant for some other time.
Feeding, caring, and planning for yourself and your own is NEVER "foolish" or "wasteful." And I never said it was-only that in the face of this other(in my opinion better) option, that it could seem that way. It isn't foolish or wasteful, but then if you worked together with everyone else to ensure the survival of everyone, how much more wise and prudent would that be? would that not yield much less waste?

a reply to: errorcode
I am aware of how I made this look,(I was starting on preppers and it morphed) but I was using preppers as a jumping off point to talk about humanity.

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

I know what you're saying. It's like saving all your money then never getting chance to spend it before dying.

But the preppers don't just prep, they do the things you say too.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well, see, kinda my whole point is that w=one person cant come up with every answer, but my answer would be much the same as any prepper preps for these things, but on a much bigger scale. IDK, I'm not a prepper, how do prppers prepare for these things?
'Look at how many highly unpopular policies and programs have been enacted despite the majority of Americans yelling "NO!"- LOL that's a whole nother rant for some other time.
Feeding, caring, and planning for yourself and your own is NEVER "foolish" or "wasteful." And I never said it was-only that in the face of this other(in my opinion better) option, that it could seem that way. It isn't foolish or wasteful, but then if you worked together with everyone else to ensure the survival of everyone, how much more wise and prudent would that be? would that not yield much less waste?

We don't live in a Utopia.

Man is very generous and will assist their neighbors in time of need. With that said, in a true SHTF scenario where EVERYONE is impacted, it won't take long for civilization to go to hell in a hand basket.

If you want a good read, get the book One Second After. It is a fictional account of what happens after an EMP attack on the US and most of the electric grid goes down. The story really focuses on the human element and how society breaks down when scarcity of resources results and people then start getting desperate.

There is only about 3 days of food on grocery store shelves. Most people have no emergency supplies of any kind at home.

It is impossible to be fully prepared for any disaster scenario, but I'd rather be somewhat prepared than totally unprepared. In some ways, I agree with you in that I live in a major city. If there is complete collapse, I am screwed. There really isn't much I can do by way of bugging out to hunker down in the mountains like some militia nut job. However, if power were to go out for a few days or something on a smaller scale where help would be coming along at some point, I'd probably be ok.

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Allow me to read from the book of Austin, Chapter 3, Verse 17:
DTA: DON'T TRUST ANYBODY

That is why the concept of banding together in larger and larger groups is so distasteful and unrealistic. Humanity is touched in the head, ya? Lot of crazy mofos out there who will enter a group like a lamb, but kill and take like a lion when they see their opportunity.

Look, I am responsible for 4 people on this planet. My wife, children, and myself... that's it and that's during the best of times. If the SHTF, I certainly don't see accepting more people to be responsible for as a good strategy for survival.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Allow me to read from the book of Austin, Chapter 3, Verse 17:
DTA: DON'T TRUST ANYBODY

That is why the concept of banding together in larger and larger groups is so distasteful and unrealistic. Humanity is touched in the head, ya? Lot of crazy mofos out there who will enter a group like a lamb, but kill and take like a lion when they see their opportunity.

Look, I am responsible for 4 people on this planet. My wife, children, and myself... that's it and that's during the best of times. If the SHTF, I certainly don't see accepting more people to be responsible for as a good strategy for survival.

I've seen family members screw each other over a few thousand dollars in the best of times. When the SHTF and people are starving, etc you best believe people who were once best buds and family will be screwing each other over to survive.

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

And I npt only respect your thoughts bit agree with them, we do need to be more community minded for all events good and bad

Every given community is different than the others. It would take a crisis or natural disaster to see which communities have a "help your neighbor" mentality.

Overall, I believe that most smaller, tight knit communities would come together and help out their neighbors while the larger metropolitan areas would do less for each other and rely more on the government or other organizations for help.
Also, I believe that some neighborhoods within larger metro areas would come together because they are helping each other on a daily basis anyway.

Look at how so many people in Michigan are helping Flint with their water problem by donating bottled water. Think about all the food pantries and homeless shelters all over the country that are helping the less fortunate. There is hope for what you envision, but people should be preparing on their own as well.

I just finished watching the Doomsday Preppers 1st season on DVD. Quite a few of those preppers were planning on helping as many others as they could if things went south. A few would probably shoot you dead before helping anyone but their own. Preppers are a mixed bag for sure.

Before I reply to anybody, I want to clarify something: By "making it to where the SHTF scenario never happened" I wasn't talking about the SHTF Event. That is to say, wipe out the disaster part of disaster. Or in other words: By preparing as the human race not just a material level but intellectual and social as well, then, whether or not calamity strucks by surprise, or when we're unprepared(because she will strike, and the whole point of prepping is to not get caught unprepared, and to prepare for unpreparedness?) it won't matter, because the calamity, by affecting one person, would by needs be affecting the entire population. IE, if we could manage this, then all the worlds vital resources (food, water, clothes, blankets, hygiene, or other things necessary or highly beneficial to ones health and or wellbeing) would be collective and go where it is needed, so that the shock a disaster that affected one part of the world, no matter how big unless it affected a huge percentage of the world, could be absorbed by the rest of it.

Thus, whether or not disaster struck, there could be no SHTF scenario unless it was a global level threat, and even in the case of such, people of such a mind as I propose would by needs be able to make a swift recovery from any threat, because they would have literally all of humanity behind it. Well, the worst SHTF scenario for such a society is for the sun or some such event somehow fried all of Earths technologies , because it would cripple communications at every level, as well as getting rid of a vital resource(read: all of them(Hmm, I' know what I'm going to start looking into: organical computers.), because other than that this society would be well prepared for any scenario, and be completely unfazed by any disaster until the end of humanity, because these people would be working together in ways that currently can only be dreamed of. And that's what I'm here doing. Dreaming. And even in such a scenario where the entire communications grid is practically shut down, such a minded people would still have a better chance than any other that I can imagine.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
OK, so how does one mitigate against a natural disaster, or a EMP burst, or an invading (or domestic) enemy? Look at how many highly unpopular policies and programs have been enacted despite the majority of Americans yelling "NO!" Feeding, caring, and planning for yourself and your own is NEVER "foolish" or "wasteful."

Bought me a fine shotgun and a case of ammo today.

Never been a fan of the shotty, but my 3-gun skills are gonna get tuned this year. Ultimately, it's about being prepared.

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Togetherness and problem-solving are all well and great, but thinking we can solve all the problems and prevent all disaster scenarios is foolish at best. As the old saying goes, "expect the best and prepare for the worst." Maybe one will need to leave all of his preparation behind. Maybe it won't do any good to prepare, but maybe it will. That's reason enough. Next time we lose power for a week or two I would like to be able to get through it in relative comfort. If SHTF, then I would like to have supplies for as long as possible. Heck, my prepping might be able to help and assist my neighbors in their time of need. Maybe if SHTF my prepping will help my community.