19-month-old dies when parents wait too long to get actual medical attention for his meningitis

a reply to: Sremmos80

False.

If you are drinking, get drunk, then get behind the wheel, you intend to drive drunk.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn.

Most of the blame falls on the shoulder of the medical industry.

No. The blame lies soley with these parents and those who spread dangerous misinformation about vaccines.

Such gross negligence is morally indistinguishable from malice. Stop apologizing for these terrible parents. A poor baby has DIED.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Its very difficult to judge without knowing the full story.

It's really not:

Ignorant parents kill their own child through their extreme neglect and utter lack of due diligence.

It shouldn't be so difficult to wrap one's head around.

a reply to: dogstar23

Key word: CERTAIN.

Not only that, but they explicitly state they didn't get the vaccine because they are anti-vax.

Stop existing such grossly irresponsible behaviour.

Very sad for all involved. The parents obviously thought they were doing the best thing for their child and now they will pay for their mistake for the rest of their lives whether or not they are convicted.

a reply to: bandersnatch

Illnesses, especially bacterial infections, in really young kids have a way of escalating quickly.

So, yeah, you can take a kid to the doctor and he sees only a mild looking illness only to have to suddenly get much much worse only a few hours later.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix
The cost of healthcare is prohibitive.

Wasn't this in Canada where healthcare is free? These parents are health food nutters who murdered the child through neglect.

a reply to: F4guy

Yep, there parents were totally Canadian and in Canada. You cannot blame health care costs on this one. It was completely paranoia over the system.

a reply to: BIGPoJo

That is intent to drive, you know most people with DUI's will tell you they thought they were fine to drive right? But what ever, keep thinking you have to be able to prove intent. That isn't the reality at all, there are plenty of crimes that you don't need intent for and yes there are some that you do need it.
You don't have to show intent for negligence.

a reply to: BIGPoJo

Kick them when they are down? Do you have children? One thing is for sure that poor little kid is down and all because of the parents refusal to have a doctor examine the child and administer antibiotics at a proper facility. Thats neglect and child abuse because of there inaction. You are responsible for the welfare of your children and in this instance the parents obviously put there own belief in anti vaccination rhetoric before the child's medical heal care requirements.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

You say long wait times, but surely no one has ever waited in an ER for 2 weeks.. the healthcare system cannot be blamed, and I don't know what healthcare is like exactly in Canada, but in the US you get treated in the ER REGARDLESS of being able to pay or not. If you cant, you go to court and prove you're of low income and the bill will be dropped. They can't do anything about that. Though I thought Canada had "free" healthcare but I see I am wrong.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: BIGPoJo

Kick them when they are down? Do you have children? One thing is for sure that poor little kid is down and all because of the parents refusal to have a doctor examine the child and administer antibiotics at a proper facility. Thats neglect and child abuse because of there inaction. You are responsible for the welfare of your children and in this instance the parents obviously put there own belief in anti vaccination rhetoric before the child's medical heal care requirements.

I have three kids, they are all healthy and alive. Do you have kids?

a reply to: BIGPoJo

I have two children, girl and boy, 9 year old and a 3 year old. Also healthy and alive hence the vaccinations. And if ever they require medical attention they are taken to a doctor.

I'm surprised that all of our resident alternative health pushers haven't commented on this thread.
I mean, if there's a dodgy cancer cure one that no-one can back up they're all over it like a rash with their magical nonsense.

I wonder if this case has made them realise that what they believe in doesn't work?

As a mother I just have to add (in these people's defense) that illnesses in kids can be very tricky. They can go from practically fine to deathly ill in a matter of minutes.

One day I dropped my son off at school (Head Start, he's only 2). By the time I got home- 10 minutes- I was getting a phone call that he was sick. By the time I got there- another 10 minutes- he looked like he was on deaths doorstep. I rushed him to the doctor (which I would only do if one of my kids was REALLY sick- I'm not an alarmist) and I was in tears as I checked him in because he looked so awful. In the office he puked on me and they gave him Tylenol and sent us home. He was sick for the next week and a half but made a complete recovery.

Two years ago my daughter was suddenly very sick and had trouble breathing. I took her to the doctor. They checked her O2 sats and sent us to the ER. Our local ER sent us by ambulance to a Children's Hospital an hour away. The local ER docs were terrified of a sick child and informed me that they can crash very quickly. 3 breathing treatments (and $10k) later they sent us home and she made a full recovery.

My point is that even doctors are scared of working with sick children because they can go to mildly ill to dead in no time at all. RIP and I feel really bad for these parents. I'm sure the death of their child is more punishment than the govt could ever come up with.

originally posted by: farmville
there's vaccinations for a reason...wow great parenting skills...

are they gonna be jailed? can this be considered 'murder' since the baby died due to ill-parenting? or am i being dramatic?

Actually, unless they are high risk for some reason the vaccine isn't recommended until adolescence.

Meningococcal conjugate vaccine (MenACWY) is routinely recommended for all 11 through 18 year olds. The first dose should be given at 11-12 years of age and a booster dose at 16 years of age.

Source

So even if the child was completely up to date, he wouldn't have had the meningitis vaccine unless he was 11 or older.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
As a mother I just have to add (in these people's defense) that illnesses in kids can be very tricky. They can go from practically fine to deathly ill in a matter of minutes.

One day I dropped my son off at school (Head Start, he's only 2). By the time I got home- 10 minutes- I was getting a phone call that he was sick. By the time I got there- another 10 minutes- he looked like he was on deaths doorstep. I rushed him to the doctor (which I would only do if one of my kids was REALLY sick- I'm not an alarmist) and I was in tears as I checked him in because he looked so awful. In the office he puked on me and they gave him Tylenol and sent us home. He was sick for the next week and a half but made a complete recovery.

Two years ago my daughter was suddenly very sick and had trouble breathing. I took her to the doctor. They checked her O2 sats and sent us to the ER. Our local ER sent us by ambulance to a Children's Hospital an hour away. The local ER docs were terrified of a sick child and informed me that they can crash very quickly. 3 breathing treatments (and $10k) later they sent us home and she made a full recovery.

My point is that even doctors are scared of working with sick children because they can go to mildly ill to dead in no time at all. RIP and I feel really bad for these parents. I'm sure the death of their child is more punishment than the govt could ever come up with.

As a father and a healthcare worker I have to say that these parents have got NO defence.

They were told to seek medical care.
They refused and took their child to a naturopath instead.
Even when they couldn't get their child into the car properly because of their muscle spasms they still went to the naturopath.
That child is dead because of their false beliefs and stubbornness, nothing else.

As for doctors "being scared" of working with sick children, they're not.
Adult doctors will be wary of treating children as they're not their speciality, the same way as a neurologist wouldn't treat a cardiac patient. There's also the reason that adult hospitals don't have the correct equipment for children.

Think about it, as a parent, if a doctor treated your child who wasn't qualified and with the incorrect equipment what would you do afterwards (this is pertinent to the thread too really)?

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said the boy had been ill for a couple of weeks, but his parents only called an ambulance when he stopped breathing. Prosecutors allege the couple treated the boy with herbal remedies and laid down next to him in bed. When they finally called for help the boy was airlifted to a hospital in Calgary, but taken off life support five days later. Doctors say the cause of death was meningitis.

Prosecutors told the court the couple “loved their son and are not accused of ignoring or killing him.” But, they added “they should have sought medical help sooner.”

Don't get me wrong here I am no fan of nor do I fully trust Big Pharma but sometimes you just have to take the pills that the professionals tell you take even if there are side affects. That being said I am leery of vaccines and such but again sometimes you have to set aside your beliefs and take medicine backed by science that is known to be effective. I know a lot of people may have a really angry reaction in regards to the parent's and their decision making skills but let's try and remember that these people just lost their child. They have enough grief, guilt, regret, dreppesion and so on and on to live with.

Don't like the sound of this. Sounds to me like the authorities are prepping the ground to force people to hand over their kids to big pharma the instant they detect unwellness.

Prepping the ground for the state to exercise more and and more control (ownership) over both the parents and the kids I reckon. Parents on the way to being relegated to supervised carers and parentship is being transferred to the state.

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said the boy had been ill for a couple of weeks, but his parents only called an ambulance when he stopped breathing. Prosecutors allege the couple treated the boy with herbal remedies and laid down next to him in bed. When they finally called for help the boy was airlifted to a hospital in Calgary, but taken off life support five days later. Doctors say the cause of death was meningitis.

Prosecutors told the court the couple “loved their son and are not accused of ignoring or killing him.” But, they added “they should have sought medical help sooner.”

Don't get me wrong here I am no fan of nor do I fully trust Big Pharma but sometimes you just have to take the pills that the professionals tell you take even if there are side affects. That being said I am leery of vaccines and such but again sometimes you have to set aside your beliefs and take medicine backed by science that is known to be effective. I know a lot of people may have a really angry reaction in regards to the parent's and their decision making skills but let's try and remember that these people just lost their child. They have enough grief, guilt, regret, dreppesion and so on and on to live with.

Don't like the sound of this. Sounds to me like the authorities are prepping the ground to force people to hand over their kids to big pharma the instant they detect unwellness.

Prepping the ground for the state to exercise more and and more control (ownership) over both the parents and the kids I reckon. Parents on the way to being relegated to supervised carers and parentship is being transferred to the state.

Sounds more to me like a child died because its parents believed in non-effective "treatments".
Who's at fault in this, the parents or the authorities?

a reply to: Pardon?

I stand by MY experiences, and testimony from the local ER docs that children can be very tricky and unpredictable patients.

But....
I will also admit that after I made my post I went back and read through the entire thread. A nurse friend told them it may be meningitis? The kid was having muscle spasms so severe that they couldn't get him into the car seat? And after all that they STILL didn't seek medical help?

Yeah, screw them.