How bad is Donald Trump?

This is a highly speculative piece.

Donald Trump seems to resemble someone who is allowed to say things even if they are very destructive. By this, I mean he speaks of big and outrageous things he is going to do after he is elected, such as building a giant wall and having Mexico pay for it. Is he joking? Or is he stupid? Or is he going to deliver on his message by becoming an American Hero, a true "patriot" in the lead of a new populist movement?



This is what I am talking about. Donald Trump is ready to ban the Muslims from coming into the country just because they are Muslims, and he is is ready to violate their civil liberties by wanting policies that allow for surveillance on certain mosques. Few people care, because they aren't Muslim, and they think that Donald Trump is racist and ignorant. But what if he doesn't just believe in surveillance on Muslims, and he has an agenda of surveillance on everyone.

"I want surveillance and I don't care, are you ready for this, are you ready?" he asked the crowd.

Donald Trump wants ‘surveillance of certain mosques’

The Republican Party, which had a recent libertarian streak, has started to be known for things such as wanting to uphold a company's right to discriminate against gays by denying them service (are they secretly pushing for an agenda that involves getting large, corporate entities or the government to discriminate against gays and Muslims... and who else after that?)

There is another group of people that have already started to be put in the crosshairs of Republicans: millennials. They could be the next target of discrimination. As a large far-right group of Representatives in the House have taken over things there, will we see the senate and the Presidency fall into that lunacy as well during this next election?

If enough of the government becomes this new type of discriminating and totalitarian Republican, then they could start targeting millennials moral views on things. Basically, changing laws that hurt millennials with certain views. For example, instituting discriminatory government measures against gays (this new sexual experimentation movement has been big in the millennial scene) and targeting abortion rights (which the millennials support).

Millenials will Change Abortion Conversation

Then the Republicans could target the large amount of the millennial population that have had trouble integrating into the middle-class workforce this generation by trying to blame their work ethic instead of understanding how the economic situation has changed the millennial's options in a lot of cases.

This could result in ending government assistance with extremist policies terminating food stamps and government subsidies resulting in sweeping changes to the poor and the children of middle-class families.

Millennials came of age during a tough economic time: Student debt has reached an all-time high, and the job market is more competitive than ever. As a result, young people today aren't earning as much money as their parents did when they were young. So how much are they making?

Using data from the Minnesota Population Center's 2014 "American Community Survey" in the Integrated Public Use Microdata Series, we found the median annual total personal income for employed millennials. We used the Pew Research Center's definition of millennials: Americans born between 1981 and 1997. The medians ranged between a low of $18,000 per year in Montana and a high of $43,000 in the District of Columbia.

Business Insider

SPARKS, Nev. -- Donald Trump softened his tone on marijuana legalization on Thursday, saying at a political rally that states should be allowed to legalize marijuana if they chose to do so. Trump reaffirmed that he supports making medical marijuana available to patients who are very sick.

Because Republicans are already advocating for totalitarian policies against gays and Muslims, how hard would it be to start rallying for totalitarian policies and surveillance for millennials? Combined with totalitarian economic policies, millennials might be hit hard. Who is the next target? Or are the Republicans dying out?

a reply to: darkbake

Bad as Donald Duck's Uncle

Honest ! Disney illuminati

Normal answer who ever it will be it doesn't matter when they will be elected I will either laugh, cry, scream feel sorry or sick but I won't have a straight face. I am not old enough but this looks like the worst election ever in terms of candidates ( I would be more confident beting on horses)

The thread looks like heaps of work so wow for that

Oh I think with trump you will have better business partnerships then with any other candidates Europien women love him we all new trump since he married Ivana (so more trustworthy at least that's the response all around at home atm)

a reply to: darkbake

I agree with what Donald Trump is saying...but if you haven't heard his latest speeches he is allowing some flexibility in immigration law...that doesn't mean he is racist...but wants to help Americans first because the economy is kaput and national security is in total corruption.

After years of political crap and US going nowhere, people losing jobs, debt rising faster than a high tide, and infrastructure falling apart...it is time to put a business mogul in charge to straightening out the mess that Obama and Bush administrations have done.

Anything else that would be an attack on Mr. T is just PC and MSM bullsh**

a reply to: darkbake

The world is a business, for the current model Trump would make it run like clockwork to the detriment of just about everybody but a select few.....its so surreal it is comical

a reply to: darkbake

I think he is the smartest person in his mind. Delusions of grander and narcissism are hardly worthy traits of a CEO for the USA. He really is just a distraction designed to creep people out. He will eventually do something that effectively kills his candidacy and he will just continue building grandiose buildings and putting his name on them. Remember, the guy made his living owning casinos and orchestrating a reality tv show. He just might be that antichrist thing that is spoken of so often or at least if anyone made a deal with the devil to get where they are it was him.

I was raised in a Jehovah's Witness family. And so I know a lot of things most people don't.

Like how cops would arrest JW's all the time for going door to door. All the time. They would get kicked out of schools for refusing to "pledge their worship to the flag" allegiance, whatever.

Even though the law allowed them religious freedom and rights. And they loved people. And did nothing wrong. And paid their taxes and were law abiding citizens.

But religion hated them. And those in office who were religious hated them.

It was because of Jehovah's Witnesses Catholics got the government to create the Espionage Act of 1918, to try and get rid of the the entire group of Jehovah's Witnesses altogether.

That is because while the major religions of Christendom were involved with murdering each other, the JWs refused to. And both Protestant and Catholic religions could not stand the loyal faith JWs had to Jehovah God. And they had a very strong sway on politics. They thought they were so powerful they could stomp out the opposition, God's servants.

It is no wonder to me why Protestants or Catholics would vote for Trump. They as a whole, NEVER have wanted freedom for the people.

originally posted by: darkbake
This is a highly speculative piece.

Donald Trump seems to resemble someone who is allowed to say things even if they are very destructive. By this, I mean he speaks of big and outrageous things he is going to do after he is elected, ...

What makes you think he can do anything, after he is elected ? He will just become a president, not a dictator.

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: darkbake
This is a highly speculative piece.

Donald Trump seems to resemble someone who is allowed to say things even if they are very destructive. By this, I mean he speaks of big and outrageous things he is going to do after he is elected, ...

What makes you think he can do anything, after he is elected ? He will just become a president, not a dictator.

Whoever is voted President, whomever it may be, will only be allowed to do, what they are allowed to do. It will not go beyond that.

Firstly, your post is reasonable in that it lays out questions as opposed to the mindless bashing of Trump I have seen all over ATS (by the usual suspects)

However, I wanted to point out three things:

1) Building a wall and making Mexico pay for it is not an outrageous or destructive thing. In fact, long before Donald Trump ran for office the wall was proposed and agreed in 2006. It was not built due to lack of funding. There is no doubt a wall could be built. Whether he really could get Mexico to pay is another question. From what I can make out from his comments he is going to leverage the fact that Mexico is massively dependant on the USA. He could turn this into a choice for Mexico - lose all your benefit of access to the American economy and decimate your country, or sacrifice about 20% of what you are making off Americans and keep 80%. In a sense this would be a 'bad' thing to do - bad for Mexico. He would be giving them a choice of 'bad for you' or 'the end for you'.

2) Surveillance is something that is here right now. You are watched and listened to almost 24/7. Agencies are illegally sharing data. Companies are illegally sharing data. It's not yet pervasive and some are still holding out. but don't kid yourself that you have privacy. This is not something Trump is introducing to daily life. I think Trump should reverse some of his positions on surveillance, but he is probably right that public places for gatherings should be watched.

3) The ban on Muslims remains perfectly sensible and legal - as it always was. Common sense wins here. His motive has been explained. There are no effective checks and screening in place. The current process is not working. Therefore, identifying a group that is the primary problem and stopping that group entering the country will reduce the risk considerably of terror attack from a new terror cell. Once the right checks are in place, I believe he would lift the ban. For clarity, he did not say he was banning all Muslims (he later clarified that he was not talking about existing US Citizens).

Is Donald trump 'bad'? In some ways he is. He is a cut throat business man. He will push the law to it's limits to get what he wants. For example when he tried to buy the Maralago resort he refused to pay the $38m asking price. Instead he bought the beach around it and built an ugly building on the land on purpose to block the view. It made Maralago unsellable and he eventually picked it up for $8m and developed it into a world class resort charging $1000 a night to stay and $200,000 membership. He didn't break any laws, but what he did was really cut throat. The outcome was he paid less and got more, and made a huge amount of money in the process. If he is President I think he will strengthen America considerably economically and militarily - at the expense of other countries. Other countries will not benefit at all. They will have to adjust to life with a little less access to the US economy. As it is today, the world is feeding (greedily) on America.

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: darkbake
This is a highly speculative piece.

Donald Trump seems to resemble someone who is allowed to say things even if they are very destructive. By this, I mean he speaks of big and outrageous things he is going to do after he is elected, ...

What makes you think he can do anything, after he is elected ? He will just become a president, not a dictator.

Whoever is voted President, whomever it may be, will only be allowed to do, what they are allowed to do. It will not go beyond that.

And we know what happens if he tries something else.

a reply to: Ove38

Indeed we do.

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: darkbake
This is a highly speculative piece.

Donald Trump seems to resemble someone who is allowed to say things even if they are very destructive. By this, I mean he speaks of big and outrageous things he is going to do after he is elected, ...

What makes you think he can do anything, after he is elected ? He will just become a president, not a dictator.

Whoever is voted President, whomever it may be, will only be allowed to do, what they are allowed to do. It will not go beyond that.

And we know what happens if he tries something else.

erm, nothing? Hasn't Obama bypassed the House and Senate on several occasions?

originally posted by: UKTruth
Firstly, your post is reasonable in that it lays out questions as opposed to the mindless bashing of Trump I have seen all over ATS (by the usual suspects)

However, I wanted to point out three things:

1) Building a wall and making Mexico pay for it is not an outrageous or destructive thing. In fact, long before Donald Trump ran for office the wall was proposed and agreed in 2006. It was not built due to lack of funding. There is no doubt a wall could be built. Whether he really could get Mexico to pay is another question. From what I can make out from his comments he is going to leverage the fact that Mexico is massively dependant on the USA. He could turn this into a choice for Mexico - lose all your benefit of access to the American economy and decimate your country, or sacrifice about 20% of what you are making off Americans and keep 80%. In a sense this would be a 'bad' thing to do - bad for Mexico. He would be giving them a choice of 'bad for you' or 'the end for you'.

2) Surveillance is something that is here right now. You are watched and listened to almost 24/7. Agencies are illegally sharing data. Companies are illegally sharing data. It's not yet pervasive and some are still holding out. but don't kid yourself that you have privacy. This is not something Trump is introducing to daily life. I think Trump should reverse some of his positions on surveillance, but he is probably right that public places for gatherings should be watched.

3) The ban on Muslims remains perfectly sensible and legal - as it always was. Common sense wins here. His motive has been explained. There are no effective checks and screening in place. The current process is not working. Therefore, identifying a group that is the primary problem and stopping that group entering the country will reduce the risk considerably of terror attack from a new terror cell. Once the right checks are in place, I believe he would lift the ban. For clarity, he did not say he was banning all Muslims (he later clarified that he was not talking about existing US Citizens).

Is Donald trump 'bad'? In some ways he is. He is a cut throat business man. He will push the law to it's limits to get what he wants. For example when he tried to buy the Maralago resort he refused to pay the $38m asking price. Instead he bought the beach around it and built an ugly building on the land on purpose to block the view. It made Maralago unsellable and he eventually picked it up for $8m and developed it into a world class resort charging $1000 a night to stay and $200,000 membership. He didn't break any laws, but what he did was really cut throat. The outcome was he paid less and got more, and made a huge amount of money in the process. If he is President I think he will strengthen America considerably economically and militarily - at the expense of other countries. Other countries will not benefit at all. They will have to adjust to life with a little less access to the US economy. As it is today, the world is feeding (greedily) on America.

Quoted for truth.

Sorry, i'm limited to 1 star.

Your last line is the kicker. That's why people are hating on him.

No more free lunch.

I recall when sudden TV celebrity attorney Joe Tacopina got on the world horn and threatened to go after anyone
who said that JVS (Joran Van Der Sloot) is a murderer, and probably killed and raped Natalie Holloway; or perhaps that JVS is a coked out predator who gambles, or even probably guilty etc... during the Aruba expose. I recall his bluster, and his skin tone. He was red, livid, like a cooked lobster. This man was serious, I thought, about legally prosecuting us worldwide for our words regarding the bastard with the large head from Holland. And there were a lot of us saying
that Joran was involved in the Holloway disappearance, which would have, or could have, netted a lot of money and
fame for Tacopina, while simultaneously creating a huge disruption in the way we think and speak. And the endgame was simply one guy, one lawyer scum, trying his best with a paintbrush, to free a killer. Because, sudden fame, more riches. Taco Joe spat in the face of God (that was easy he has none) and justice, for power, added celebrity status, and fame.

This Tacopina tantrum, had it prevailed, would have basically ruined the internet, and the 1st A.

Then I heard Don blathering about how he would 'Open up libel and slander laws', as a campaign promise, which laws normally are not a huge factor in my daily survival stint. I have not seen the penises yet, of the members of the panel of contestants, not any of them, nor a decent comparison of their hands. I never thought to make a study of Marco's penis-to-hand ratio observational studies, while in locker rooms, either, so I was somewhat interested in the issue when Rubio cited his experience, and this stuff is presently supplanting the stage from any talk about, oh, the problematic police state which makes driving or even moving like a spin on the roulette wheel, where there are a lot of slots that essentially say 'BANKRUPT', especially if you have staked more than you can afford to lose. Roulette has the highest hold of all casino games btw. Being pulled over by redcoats these days is like flirting with death, or like walking on a tightrope at great height, because when you are taken down, by an anonymous tip and swat raid, or by a sudden steroid activated whim, you chance to lose it all.

So what happens after the election? I am slightly concerned, because normally lawyers and lawsuits are found wherever there is money. Most normal persons don't have money in abundance. Most normal persons are busy fighting to keep their spirit above ground, and will hear, and read, and say, a lot of stuff which may be untrue, slanderous, or even flat out lies, as heard on radio and seen on TV. What happens when casual conversation becomes another government instrument of oppression? Already we have stasi agents being groomed from the populace. See and Say, it is called. Sanders wants us to call 9-1-1, a no brain-uh, if you are seen bringing a few guns through the door of your home. Are we supposed to leave them in the car? Already we have passengers being thrown off of flights, and watchlisted, if they are heard dissing Hillary, in line at airports. I won't say that I don't get it. I do. Leo DiCaprio will never take his night in the limelight for granted. We should all believe in what he believes, therefore, because they gave him the nod. And all the progressives agree. To quote one of them, Sanders, who said that global warming is our greatest threat to existence, right up there with a traffic police stop, one would think. So yeah, the one worlders want a progressive agenda, because global warming is global, except when Hillary's billion dollar coal fired plants are concerned. Where did she set up the funding...was it Brazil? No sure, and I don't wanna get sued.

I enjoy using the internet to maintain, for instance, that non-stick pans and cookware are deadly.
Sometimes what I assert will go further than my limited anecdotal experience and evidence can verify,
because if you examine the evidence for my claim, you will find a stacked deck of corporate lies,
obfuscation, and blog sites which almost always downplay any dangers. The upshot is that there are a lot of deaths
downstream and all around the factories which produce them, and there is teflon in our blood, worldwide, because of such manufactured items. But guess what. It's hard to prove correlation, especially when corporate bloggers and lobbyists are hard at work saying, Oh, poo. Just get some new pots, because he new ones are even better.

It's difficult to compare millions of dead or dying parakeets which were near the kitchen, to a human who eats from the non-stick prepared foodstuffs, because of the huge difference in weight. So instead, time becomes a factor, which factor corporations screw to their advantage, because after a while, we all die. How can an acute wave of transient nausea from a delicious omelette each time the non-stick cookware is used, be cited as proof that PFOA's kill, unless a powerful extrapolative bias is used in my description and spoken concerns? If I love someone, I will casually cite my experience, even in passing. The larger the meal prepared on non-stick surface, the more ill I become. A piece of fish can make my brain feel like it is being suddenly flooded after I eat, which normally doesn't happen, not ever. Thus, my statements to the world, based on my limited experience, about the cookware. I am fearful that such a conversation may make me liable in legal terms, in the near future. A verboten subject, like the Newtown Skit is today, and probably forever, unless things change. To open up libel laws, to amplify their importance, seems a dubious campaign promise. Most of us aren't wealthy, and most of us avoid lawyers and litigation, all the days of our lives, am I right? Why is Donald so concerned with a thing which most of us do not worry about? He's going to need these freedoms when he goes after Hillary, that is certain, because she 'has a lot of things to hide', just like the Ricketts clan. Wink.

Sorry if this is kind of long, but after I heard Trump's campaign promise, this idea has been forming in my mind for some time. I think it's important enough to mention. I hated killer JVS, and I hate Robbie Parker and the liars at Newtown and I want to continue to hate them, freely, despite that the media tried to liberate them from scrutiny.

I never know who or what I might one day hate, but I expect to reserve that right. I may be as poor as fcuk, in terms that anyone can measure, but I am not without power, Donald. So please pay attention. Do not pull a fast one on me.

# 591

a reply to: darkbake
He is doing what politicians do best. Pandering to the people that are easiest to sway. The fearful.

The logistics and cost of what he proposes would make it impossible to do even if he was re-elected (or elected at all). Even though he is at the top of the hill looking down, he speaks his mind and isn't afraid to piss people off or hurt feelings. He is new and he talks like an average person. That makes him likeable.

Am I saying he is the worst choice? lol no.

a reply to: JackReyes

So you are throwing in a belief of Trump against JW or just posting something about JW for the heck of it?

Trump can say basically anything, just like any American. Talking something and getting it done as president are very different things.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: UKTruth
Firstly, your post is reasonable in that it lays out questions as opposed to the mindless bashing of Trump I have seen all over ATS (by the usual suspects)

However, I wanted to point out three things:

1) Building a wall and making Mexico pay for it is not an outrageous or destructive thing. In fact, long before Donald Trump ran for office the wall was proposed and agreed in 2006. It was not built due to lack of funding. There is no doubt a wall could be built. Whether he really could get Mexico to pay is another question. From what I can make out from his comments he is going to leverage the fact that Mexico is massively dependant on the USA. He could turn this into a choice for Mexico - lose all your benefit of access to the American economy and decimate your country, or sacrifice about 20% of what you are making off Americans and keep 80%. In a sense this would be a 'bad' thing to do - bad for Mexico. He would be giving them a choice of 'bad for you' or 'the end for you'.

2) Surveillance is something that is here right now. You are watched and listened to almost 24/7. Agencies are illegally sharing data. Companies are illegally sharing data. It's not yet pervasive and some are still holding out. but don't kid yourself that you have privacy. This is not something Trump is introducing to daily life. I think Trump should reverse some of his positions on surveillance, but he is probably right that public places for gatherings should be watched.

3) The ban on Muslims remains perfectly sensible and legal - as it always was. Common sense wins here. His motive has been explained. There are no effective checks and screening in place. The current process is not working. Therefore, identifying a group that is the primary problem and stopping that group entering the country will reduce the risk considerably of terror attack from a new terror cell. Once the right checks are in place, I believe he would lift the ban. For clarity, he did not say he was banning all Muslims (he later clarified that he was not talking about existing US Citizens).

Is Donald trump 'bad'? In some ways he is. He is a cut throat business man. He will push the law to it's limits to get what he wants. For example when he tried to buy the Maralago resort he refused to pay the $38m asking price. Instead he bought the beach around it and built an ugly building on the land on purpose to block the view. It made Maralago unsellable and he eventually picked it up for $8m and developed it into a world class resort charging $1000 a night to stay and $200,000 membership. He didn't break any laws, but what he did was really cut throat. The outcome was he paid less and got more, and made a huge amount of money in the process. If he is President I think he will strengthen America considerably economically and militarily - at the expense of other countries. Other countries will not benefit at all. They will have to adjust to life with a little less access to the US economy. As it is today, the world is feeding (greedily) on America.

Quoted for truth.

Sorry, i'm limited to 1 star.

Your last line is the kicker. That's why people are hating on him.

No more free lunch.

Yes it's crazy what America has allowed to happen. A giant bowing to a dwarf in any respects.
America is the worlds' golden goose - plain and simple.

On a per capita level on average Americans have around $3,500 of disposable income per month. Only Switzerland, Australia and Denmark have more affluent people in terms of disposable income and those markets are MUCH smaller. When you add up disposable income used for discretionary spend for a whole countries population , the US market dwarfs every other market in the world.

Further, when you take other countries with large populations like India and China you find discretionary spend per capita much lower - China about $700 per month. This not only means that people have less to spend on things other than bills, it means they are less likely to spend on consumer goods. In simple terms, If you have $3500 in your pocket you are much more likely to buy a $700 item than if you had $700 in your pocket.

So America dwarfs every other market and has a population more willing to buy.

It's no wonder that the world wants to sell to America.

The problem is that the US govt. has betrayed its people. Rather than using the massive bargaining chip the US has on the world stage to help her people, your elected officials have sold out in the interest of swelling the bank accounts of large corporations (and most likely their own).

I think Trump is talking about this - but not specifically. He is going to use the bargaining chip to improve the lot of the American people. That's why a country like Mexico would HAVE to pay for the wall or risk losing access to the honey pot.

Donald J Trump is a legitimate outsider...

what would the present world be like if previous outsiders like (George) McGovern & (Eugene J) McCarthy would have held the Oval Office ?

Trump would not have to rectify the open borders and the flood of un-vetted Muslims circumventing the proper & correct Immigration Laws by act of the WH regime intent on 'forever transforming' the USA experiment in representative, democracy.... unfettered-by-religion, type of government

a reply to: darkbake

Trump is no better and no worse than any other person running for president.

Really.

Trump, Cruz, Sanders, Clinton. . . . if any of them were elected, the world would not end.

Some of them say they want smaller government, some of them want larger government.

In the end, government will get bigger, regardless to what they say. No president has made government smaller. Each and every election cycle, more laws, more regulations, less freedoms is always the result.

We will bicker over the minutia. We will argue over the small scraps that they toss at us and we will think we're making a difference.

I'm not a big fan of socialism and government control. Our government is corrupt. Making it bigger will just lead to more opportunities for more corruption.

So I lean towards Trump or Cruz. But I'm under no illusion that they will even make a difference.

Like gambling, I enjoy the activity and the amusement it provides. But the House always wins.

Always.

Having watched this election with some interest there are a few things that can be stated:

When a person runs for political office people listen to what he or she says on the campaign trail. When that person is a well known celebrity, then it becomes something else.

His words at first, people paid some attention, and they were rough and hard, speaking what people said were on their mind. Now that he is doing well in the polls, people, not just in this country, but around the world are nervous, and some countries are already talking about banning or not allowing for him to step foot in their country. The rhetoric is one that is very dangerous and one that should not be taken lightly.

It even appears as though the Republican party does not want him as President either, proving that the establishment is worried and currently trying to figure out how to get the voters not to vote for him while at the same time get the candidate they want into the position, and they are failing.

After watching all of this I have come to the conclusion it is one of 2 things that is going on here with Trump.

The first, and this is the scariest, is that he really means what he states and he will cause problems for the country that will take generations to fix, if he gets into office. People of all sorts will end up hurt, for nothing more than being a follower of Islam, or of another minority. They will face persecution, that makes the NAZI party look like they were doing child’s play. The laws that he would pass, would harm all but the top earners in the country, and people will suffer for it economically.

The second, if it is true shows a man who is highly intelligent, and one that has more tricks up his sleeve. If this is the case, what you are looking at is another Patton, a man who is highly intelligent, but to get people to listen, he speaks in the most vulgar way possible, and it is effective. The one thing that he does not have to pay for is media exposure, his opponents and the media is giving him all of the exposure he could want. So he acts more outrageous and vulgar and the people eat it up. His name is on their mind and ultimately it is getting into the minds of the people long before they vote, and if you look at the primaries, he is nailing just about every one. He is forcing those states he does not take the majority, to split the delegates with him. IN short, he is playing a strategic game that is being very successful. He is not unwilling to take it down to the lowest level and that is where it stands. If he gets the nomination, something tells me that the real man will come out and if it is as I suspect, it will be both vulgar and with a clear plan that no one is going to expect.


On a side note, he has managed to do 3 things that we should applaud him for. 1) People are talking about the issues. 2) Showing that racism and bigotry is not a thing of the past. And 3) Reversing the apathy of politics that has been very apparent in recent years.