What if your candidate wins the popular vote, but is not made President?

a reply to: tadaman

Typically we have done nothing, although if you search you'll find protests were held against the decision to make Bush president I'm sure, but the response you're looking for is too simplistic. Will people storm DC? There will definitely be protests but we've all seen how the MSM treats protest during their coverage.

But will immediate action be taken? Violence? I'm sure many Trump supporters have no problem resorting to but that's not the answer I would want because no good would come from it. What I'm hoping will happen will be an intellectual change & with that the end of apathy. This kind of change isn't immediate, in fact it's going to be generational change so when both the DNC & RNC pull their dirty tricks to defeat Sanders and Trump there will be no revolution that day but there will be protests and random acts of violence.

a reply to: Swills

Forget about violence. How about a show of solidarity? Would we line up with our ENEMIES across the isle?

Will we look at each other as brothers and sisters? Or as Those guys....VS US

Perhaps, and this is my point, WE DONT DESERVE change.

We are not that change. We ask others to be it for us. And then go back to our lives and the RHETORIC of our freedom and our worthiness of more than robber barons.

Yes the ruling elite should fear us....We will make a sign and then go home to watch the walking dead and dull our minds and wits some more.

Even some will make themselves look cool by quoting our founders after the fact like they share a like mind....the farthest thing from the truth.

We are not a people worthy of more. We have not BOTHERED ourselves to become more, yet expect what is hard fought for day by day to be secured for us. We live by way of proxy...and act like we are this enlightened and brilliant people who are just victims of circumstance....who are really so deserving of more...

Its mail order democracy. It is a whore of a system that makes cheap whores of us.

a reply to: tadaman

I don't know... I'm a big believer in that positive changes can (and have happened) when the people revolt and rally as one against "the man".

Many great changes for the better have happened over the decades, centuries.

However... we as a people (grouped as one) seem to have a huge problem with making sure that we actually stay the course and follow it through, ensuring that "the man" doesn't slowly bring back their own corrupt agendas back into the picture, yet again.

It's a neverending vicious circle.

a reply to: tadaman

Call me a glass is half full kind of guy.

Solidarity is easy part even though the political world is full of divide. It's hard to see Sander's and Trump's supporters unifying under one cause, right? Maybe not! Like I said, the elites better be careful how they play this game because they have already exposed much corruption in this political race and if they keep it up, and they will, there will emerge a reason for supporters of both camps to unite.

Change is already in the wind and with the introduction of the internet people aren't forced to watch cable news for their political updates. Anything you need to know is available to you 24/7 conveniently from your pocket. And thus the intellectual revolution has begun!

a reply to: tadaman

Divide and conquer works too well and if the movement did have success who is trusted as the leader of the movement? Any leader would have to be limited by congress anyway. No. What the Republic requires is a strong middle and upper class to influence government. That is my belief. If the middle class is destroyed you lose the Republic. Proletariat revolutions have only lead to totalitarianism.

a reply to: Swills

I just dont believe us. We are full of it.

I know this is a terrible subject, that most dont want to even CONSIDER that nothing, nothing about us has changed.

Its true though. We are not a vibrant people fighting the good fight.

We are a dull people just fighting.

I ask that we be honest and cut the crap. That we start to fight our MENTALITY, if we want something else to be reflected in government.

Thats all.

a reply to: tadaman

What you should watch is the young voter turnout. See how many young people actually go out and vote because I do believe their numbers are so low politicians typically don't pander to them, well save one that I can think of :winkyface:

If you're looking for hope start there. They are the future and all.

a reply to: JustSayNo

Proletariat revolutions have only lead to totalitarianism.

THANK YOU.

a reply to: tadaman

The upside of the equation is that people still have it too good to demand change. My only concern is if people allow it to go on too long building up debt and then when reality hits it is to late to change course. By my calculations the entire western world is at risk of waking up only when it is too late, I hope I'm wrong.

a reply to: Swills

I see us getting worse with every successive generation. The words of wisdom of our elders ignored, the basic workings of government a mystery, the basic workings of the world seen as magic....


Sorry. I dont see it.

a reply to: tadaman

You need a new glass.

a reply to: JustSayNo

So they have it good. But they want power, real power now that they enjoy daily baths and relative comfort?

But they want to upset a system (me too) that is threatening their comfort, and even our survival. OK

What do we do, VOTE? OK

Why not vote for a candidate advocating REAL change. NO ONE DOING THAT?

OK

Why not offer someone up, use social media and all that crap to that end?

I will tell you why. It needs to be spoon fed to them because our spirit is dry and our soul as a people is lacking.

We need to change that first. We wont. Not ever.

We can be less comfortable and still just try to get up on each other.

The generations that secured our freedoms were unique. We are not them. We are like all those in history that took scraps and said thank you.

We are no rebels. No fighters. We are cattle. We hear a familiar bell and flock to the herdsman. This is not a people who birth change and empower common men.

They prop up better masters to do for them what they will not do for themselves.

a reply to: Swills

I need to fill my glass with something of more substance. The watered down spirit passing as rebel patriots today in age are keeping me thirsty. The thing we call hope I see as a slaves hope for greater portions or a rainy day to afford a respite off the fields.

They say they fight the establishment. I say they just fight. I think that unless we ADMIT this to ourselves that anything like what founded this country, that which is needed to preserve it, will never be here again.

We have lost our way, and no leader will show us the path- NONE

We dont think like noble powerful commoners. We are just common.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: eriktheawful

And what have WE done about it? Nothing.

We dont deserve better. We are not ready for change. We are not READY to fight the establishment.

Can we be honest about that and START to change US? ...at least before asking others to change things for us?


Cant we see NO ONE is really a champion of the people. That ALL are working within a system not meant to empower a single average slob.

They know the nature and dynamic of power in the US, all of them. NONE are asking to change that. NONE. An average american would ask for that, 99% of people would agree that the whole electoral college is unsuited to serve us anymore.

Then you have issue with the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. If you stick with just a popular vote then parties would ignore rural areas and their issues and cater to Cities with large population centers.

a reply to: MrSpad

So the population dispersion is the same now as it was for a colonial agricultural world?


I think that with mass communication and transportation that any issues of WHERE you are to vote could be solved.

Also, if 90% of the population wills something we should first ask if they be willing it evenly in all the land rather than in its totality like a democracy asks?

Would a farmer voting in Utah be less represented than a guy in NY if both have the same power in their vote? REALLY?

It would still be a totality of opinion that is measured, not its even dispersal.

EDIT TO ADD:
How about a state representative vote....VOTED BY DIRECT DEMOCRACY on a state level....

If a rural state casts it vote, measuring the overall opinion of its citizens, saying for example, UTAH votes for X....that state would be less catered to in a nation of 50 possible state votes?

How would NY get more of a sway over a rural state if it is still 1 of a possible 50 votes?

a reply to: tadaman

It apparently happened four times before so the is a precedent.

Though it was a narrow vote margin.

a reply to: MrSpad

It's the worst system of government but still way better than all the other kinds. The method and means of change are important. People need to use the tools of what is far from a perfect system but the best created in human history to get the government they want. Your vote has power, use it and try to inform yourself the best you can before using that power. All the money in the world can only influence you if you let it.

originally posted by: JustSayNo
a reply to: MrSpad

It's the worst system of government but still way better than all the other kinds. The method and means of change are important. People need to use the tools of what is far from a perfect system but the best created in human history to get the government they want. Your vote has power, use it and try to inform yourself the best you can before using that power. All the money in the world can only influence you if you let it.

Best?

Parliamentary system used by UK,canada and Australia to me seems slightly better.

You get slightly more representation for the people but enough checks and balances to stop any thing "extreme " getting in while still be flexible. Countrys with parliamentary systems tend to be pretty stable too.

a reply to: crazyewok

I was trying to paraphrase Churchill.

a reply to: crazyewok

Agree entirely.

We say its the best, like watching whats on TV that sucks, but doing so because the remote is just too far to get up and grab....so as to watch what you really want.

This is laziness on our part.

Fix it, but leave it alone.....sure

Fight the establishment ra ra ra, but then ask for permission.

Change, hope, fear us....yeah.