Welcome to the Republican party.

I'm sick and tired of these inapplicable and exaggerated bullsnip stories that conservatives come up with.

Something akin to a daughter telling her father she likes democratic socialistic ideas, so he tells her that her getting an A in her class should instead be lowered to a C, so a person who got an F can also get a passing grade, as it would be raised as well. She says this isn't fair, no way.. And he says "welcome to the Republican party"

Analogies such as these.. Talking about equal slices of the pie, talking about equal pay for inequality jobs.. None of this is applicable!

We live in a nation and world where people in third world nations are literally starving and unable to pay for a decent life, in order for the rich and elite to get rich in first world nations. We live in a world where ceos make millions when their decisions hurt a business, yet the average worker gets laid off. We live in a world where the top few percent have accumulated the majority of the wealth by getting in bed with theirs and other governments, by owning the banks and entities that create our money, by ensuring everything is done so that small businesses cannot thrive.

This is closer to one crony student paying the teacher for an A, and also paying the teacher to create a harder curriculum for everyone else to ensure they can never be "as smart" as him.

This "free stuff" speech is also crap. Healthcare and education are embarrassments in the United states compared to other first world nations. We are behind in many ways, our pricing is far beyond almost every other first world nation while the quality typically doesn't even measure up. The people are tired of it - they aren't saying every jobless drunk deserves to be paid like a full time worker - they are saying that the working class deserves a degree of security, and to be debt free when living a reasonable lifestyle. They are saying that hospital visits should not bankrupt a family in which the father and mother both work forty hours a week.

This isn't some cry for help by entitled brats, it's a call for help by the working class for security and reasonable equality - , these people who produce, provide, create, invent, work, they are the supply, the demand.. They are every part of an economy yet they are told they are the least important.. Why the right worships the rich class who do nothing at all, I will never know.

I am not saying socialism or democratic socialism is the only way to go. I also can see the merits of a true free market capitalistic economy. I can see the virtues of it - I am simply saying we don't live in a country that even comes close to that economic situation.

Anyways, just tired of the right bashing on every person that sees how corrupt and evil our government and business together have become.

-deadlyhope

a reply to: deadlyhope

What I find odd is that in one sense, you have such clarity of vision when you say...

We live in a world where ceos make millions when their decisions hurt a business, yet the average worker gets laid off. We live in a world where the top few percent have accumulated the majority of the wealth by getting in bed with theirs and other governments, by owning the banks and entities that create our money, by ensuring everything is done so that small businesses cannot thrive.

... then you put the blinders on and basically say, "It's those darned republicans!"

Do you really, sincerely believe the Democrats don't have the same/similar bedfellows? Look at the Democratic front runner, Hillary Clinton. My goodness gracious, the people she is indebted to via their donations to that slush fund of the Clinton Foundation, I'm terrified to find out what that will bring about should she win.

The big guys/gals in government are the same, regardless of whether there is a D or an R next to their name.

When someone claims that only Team A is good and Team B is bad, across the board, they are almost certain to get screwed a little extra by Team A (if there is any more ways to get screwed left). Why would Team A need to do ANYTHING for you, if they know you are drinking their Kool Aid and will vote for them no matter what?

a reply to: eluryh22

I'm talking about the citizens, not the politicians.

I believe almost all people in DC should be taken to court and put on trial for treason.

The average citizen, though?

Republicans want extra legislation that helps big business.

They want lower taxes on the rich so we can receive the amazing gift that trickles down to us.

The economics and legislation they fight for... Kills the middle class.

If all citizens, Democrat and Republicans would get together and stand up against the corrupt... We'd win.

But for now, we lose.

I'm also not saying Democrats are without flaw. This is an isolated example.. I do not blame every ill we have on Republicans. Hell, the thing that's hurt me the most lately has been obamacare and it's wonderful price adjustments passed by the dems.. But once again, I'm talking about citizens, not those in office. I really dislike most all in DC.

They want us to be poor, unhealthy and stupid.
We are more easily manipulated that way.
When we are worried about getting through our day to day lives, we have no time to worry about how much we're being taken advantage of.
To blame only the republican party is shortsighted, at best.
It's all of them. Both sides of the aisle are against the 'common man'
They want us to stay 'common'
A nation of educated, healthy people is not what these scum want at all.
They want us dumb, so we buy things we don't need and can be manipulated easy.
They want us sick (mind and body) then we buy their drugs.
We suffer, they line their pockets

Ultimately the entire debate comes down to a single, glaring truth:

The people forwarding the current tropes and talking points are doing so by script. A script written by and subsidized by a handful of extremely wealthy and powerful individuals who are keen to protect their investments and holdings.

This is true on both sides of the isle, for most pundits and candidates and with almost all media.

The sad thing to me is that the wall of misinformation is so profoundly thick and fortified at this point that there really cannot be any reasonable discourse any longer.

a reply to: Hefficide

The problem is the common sense is not common. And let me be clear, when I say as much, I am not saying that much has changed in that regard over the years, because looking back into history, there have always been those who stood out as being extremely sensible, many of whom were looked upon by their contemporaries as being complete lunatics.

Why were they considered lunatics? Because they were judged by the measure of the great mass of people around them. Concepts like a spherical Earth, a heliocentric solar system, and medical assistance comprised of better than a visit to the butchers shop...well. These were all pretty weird to some folk back then. Imagine any one of us now, going back to those times. We would be burned alive at the stake for witchcraft, just because of what we know.

But I digress a little I suppose. The thing of it is this. Those who have common sense in this time, see nations divided by all sorts of things. You look across to the Middle East, and you see a continent being divided by dogma and propaganda on all sides, all of which plays into the destruction of life, limb, infrastructure, and national and cultural elements therein. It's a doom spiral. You look at continental Europe, and nations once again are divided, but they are divided in a different manner, less likely to kill over their differences, but more than able and willing to allow themselves to be programmed into accepting a rod up their backs, and a stick up their ... You know what I mean.

Right here in Britain, there are clear divisions between people of differing wealth, differing geographical location, differing languages and dialects, different politics differing opinions on everything from music to clothes.

And America? From here in Britain the situation in America looks pretty grim. The problems affecting American people stem from a small percentage of individuals with any real power to change a damn thing, a smaller percentage of whom are paid, mostly by the other members of that first small percentage, to make sure that the percentage of people with any real power remains small, and the number of people who think their shackles make them free is large.

And it works. The thing is, partisanship aside, the people need to work together to insist on freedom, fairness, and equality across the board. Rights, access to work, access to a living, not a sticking plaster of a pay packet, but a living, for every single person of working age and who is physically able to do the work. And how do I know this? How do I know that people working together to make it happen, can provide those things? I know this because it is the one thing that has never actually been tried to its fullest in my country, and it is the only thing that there is left for us to try. And do not worry, my American cousins, I know that my nation has never achieved this, and does not seem to be about to. But you see, the way of things here has had millennia to develop. Your nation is still in its infancy, you can change its habits a whole lot easier than we Brits can change ours.

Once again though, if common sense were common, then these problems would never have existed. As it is though, common sense is uncommon, and so welcome to the doom spiral, where the efforts of those of us with enough common sense to keep the others from eating one another's organs, are often all that keeps the place from detonating under our feet.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Hefficide

The problem is the common sense is not common.

I completely agree with the statement, however "sense" in my opinion is subjective and therefore there are always going to be people with differing views on the matter of what constitutes common sense.

It is a bit like doing mental maths, my method maybe completely different to yours we may both come up with the same answer but how we get there is completely different and neither one of us can understand each others method, and never will because our brains work completely different.

A liberal lefty's "Common Sense" will be a polar opposite of a Tory's.

Does Common sense actually exist? It a way of explaining something we think is tangible and logical but it is very hard to pin down, as you said "Common sense is not that common".

Sorry went a little bit down a thought tunnel there... anywho...

a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

This, dear lady, is ATS.

It is one huge plethora of thought tunnels, all with their own, strange geometries, and many in which the regular physics we are accustomed to, does not apply! Never apologise for getting into the spirit of things, especially when your input is on point!

a reply to: Hefficide

Right.

This is my rant - My other posts in forums outside of rants give more insight to my honest feelings of how to progress, how to get out of this system - Though, who knows if it could actually be done at this point.

Less government - Smaller government - Fewer laws, etc. I believe the less the Fed is involved in my house, the better. I believe the less power the fed has, the better.

I realize my enemy is not any citizens, but the people in DC who take the will of the citizens and contort it into something evil and far different from what any of us actually desire - Though they can wrap it up and sell it to us as something we do desire pretty well.

The convention of states is promising - Do you think the COS is actually just a part of the script, or an actual attempt to burn it?

a reply to: deadlyhope

Entitlement plus attempted rationalizing, I see...

Welcome to the Democrat Party!

originally posted by: Hefficide

there really cannot be any reasonable discourse any longer.

Sure there can! Either we reach a reasonable point again, where life returns to being merit based as millions of years of human evolution ingrained in us and supported, or we set dis course on fire, watch the mutha burn to goddamn ashes, alongside anyone not strong enough to survive it, and rebuild it all from scratch. Seems more desirable to me than continuing to play this asinine game of "Ensure the vote of the Kept Voter" for the politicians only elected because they are walking Meal Tickets.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Tell me - What problems are most prominent in our society right now - I want your honest opinion, I'm not asking you to choose the answer you think I want you to.

Have businesses gotten out of control and bought our politicians to favor themselves, thus creating an unfair economy for the lower classes?
OR
Is there too much entitlement and too much expectations of people to be handed a living, even when they do not earn it - And the possibility to earn a good living is achievable by all who are willing to try?

a reply to: deadlyhope

Globalism, destruction of tariffs and national protection policies to protect America's manufacturing sector, a mountain of red tape and regulatory agencies run amok, destroying America's ability to build anything of merit or utilize any of our wealth of natural resources, a welfare system that discourages personal responsibility and rewards laziness and failure, a recent history of fighting wars without claiming spoils to fund those wars, and a federal government that has outgrown itself and needs brought to its knees in front of the American people, begging us for scraps where it belongs.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

And in this Mad Max fantasy of yours where all but the strongest perish and those you personally see as less than and undeserving are killed off - what do you think comes next?

I ask because it's not like history doesn't answer this question for us. It does, several times over in fact. Most recently in the form of the dark ages. The benefits of society, hard won and accumulated over time... things like knowledge, roads, running water, medical expertise, architecture, literacy... all disappear and the vacuum is filled by small and isolated pockets of feudal tribalism and war. The "strong" you so admire become just so many despots, seeking to cement their lineage and protect their own bloodlines at any cost and to the mass detriment of the people unlucky enough to be alive in the despots sphere of influence.

You currently live in a world where you are moderately taxed but receive tangible benefits from that taxation. You live a relatively comfortable life. No threat of marauding bandits appearing out of nowhere to rape and kill everyone you know. No wolves at the gates. No real threat of starvation because of a localized issue. A life free from agents of your Feudal lord showing up and taking everything from you, by threat of violence, simply because the man who proved stronger than you decided he wanted it. You live in a world where laws protect you from real and true tyranny and where the sharing of resources and knowledge have made so much possible...

And you'd trade it all out of what? Spite because you think others might have a bit more than you think they deserve?

Even as you ironically rant about issues that don't even effect you... Things like Federal Commerce regulations. Huh. I guess the people in Flint right now are thinking "Screw the poison water man! Killing our kids is a small price to pay for the benefits of the trickle down economics we're all enjoying!"

Of course they are not. What they are doing these days is learning why regulations existed in the first place and lamenting that they bought into the Koch brothers propaganda and elected a fool to run their state.

I don't expect any of this to sink in. At this point Burd I'm simply trying to figure out whether you actually believe that you'd be the one to end up in absolute power in your little slice of the world should it all fall to pieces... or if you really do just hate other people so much that you'd gleefully let you and yours suffer the Hell of a feudal world just for the knowledge that those useless eaters are also in Hell as well.

a reply to: Hefficide

The unfortunate thing is that people see measures of progress by how well their iPhone can play games, or how legal this or that drug is substance is, or how fast their Internet is. While technology advancements, social progress and liberal ideology may be forms of progress - they certainly do not represent the Era in which America and the world made the most progress.

The Wright brother's and the plane, Karl Benz and the automobile - so many things invented and created. Medical advancements, cures for deadly diseases, even progress on social issues were all started in the minds of people from decades ago. We haven't put a man on the moon in decades and our space funding has been dramatically cut even though extreme advancements were made because of those programs..

We used to take risks. We used to want to achieve something. We used to try harder but we've become complacent and somehow feel superior in that complacency.

If we followed the trends of the 1900s we would be far, far better off I would argue. We used to have trade laws, we used to care about the people's lives who created our goods and ensured some quality of life in trade agreements, we used to take risks to make huge leaps in advancement but now we are just too weak to do so. We come out with another iPhone that has one percent more speed and no functionality over the last and we call it progress. Because materialism has become the new trend.

Then to argue who is superior in this vastly inferior society... But I digress. This is the path we are on - all I feel I can do is limit my involvement in such movements and mentalities.

a reply to: Hefficide

You're focusing on the second option. There is a more attractive option on the table, too. Earn it yourself, or move out of the way for those of us who are tired of earning it for you.

Let me ask you this, what happens when you run out of people willing to support the sloths? Which "Mad Max" scenario do you think is more favorable
1. A Mad Max world in which you're still relatively strong when it begins?
2. A Mad Max scenario in which everybody is ground down to poverty and despair before it even starts?

I don't hate other people, Heff, I just don't care about other people's responsibilities and don't believe it is a concern that should be forced on anyone outside of each individual. There's a difference. I don't see a lot of difference, however, between a federal government beholden to being the Meal Ticket in exchange for votes and the system of feudal lords... both depends strongly on a contingent of serfs happily defending their lords in exchange for handouts and favors.

originally posted by: Hefficide
Even as you ironically rant about issues that don't even effect you... Things like Federal Commerce regulations. Huh. I guess the people in Flint right now are thinking "Screw the poison water man! Killing our kids is a small price to pay for the benefits of the trickle down economics we're all enjoying!"

IT WAS THE GODDAMNED FEDERAL EPA THAT ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN!!!

How dense does one have to be to not recognize this fact? The EPA has a long track record of dropping the ball on lead contamination. Furthermore, it has historically been centered on Democrat voter hubs. The agency is compromised and hypocritical, quick to slap down any corporate interests in development, while twiddling their thumbs when it is a liberal municipality that is violating standards. Then the EPA kept quiet about it to protect the city of Flint's politicians from public backlash.

Hell, do I need to go into the EPA's Gold King Mine disaster from last year?

But, of course, "Big Government" must be the answer so long as they're the Meal Ticket, right? :rolleyes:

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Really? The EPA? You sure it wasn't the state?

Oh, and here is a right wing darling getting some of that welfare from the taxpayers.

Fact is, this jerk tried to squeeze the poor to save a buck and now is charging the very people he screwed over to finance his attempt at avoiding responsibility.

But, hey, your version supports your personal biases so...

a reply to: Hefficide

Can we agree that lawyers are a bipartisan problem and should all be gathered up and deported to downtown Allepo, Syria, regardless of their political leanings?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I would LOVE a situation where others help isn't needed.

Want to know why my area struggles as farmers and such? The government owns something like 90% of the land around here, and are charging crazier prices for "grazing rights" on land that was OURS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

So yeah - If the circumstances existed where everyone in the nation could work for a living, and make ends meet - That would be great.If government, businesses, and people alike minded their own business, laws were all fair, the government had almost no power whatsoever...And everything was made not so everyone was equal.. Anyways I could go on and on, but it's pointless. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Such circumstances are beyond fantasy. I'd believe in unicorns before I'd believe in this capitalistic situation that's comparable to a utopia. You're deluded if you think this economical political situation exists.