Louis C.K. Regarding Trump: "Don’t vote for your own cancer. You’re better than that."

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: JohnnyElohim

My issue with Louis C.K.'s piece is twofold.

First, he is simply parroting what you can hear on CNN or MSNBC every half hour, or every 10th post on ATS. Trump is bad, people who vote for him are stupid and racist, etc., etc. Nothing new or insightful about that.

No, nothing new about the reasons for his criticisms. He just felt moved to write about it because he apparently feels it's very important. Though I'm not sure he's really going at Trump supporters negatively so much as trying to be compelling to Conservative Trump supporters, begging them to have a second thought.

Second, I don't think Louis C.K. would have had any problem getting a check performing at one of Trump's casinos or his TV show before this election.

Maybe so, maybe not. This is conjecture. But why does it matter? Does Louis C.K. need to be a pure idealist who has always been above taking Trump's money for a performance for his opinion about Trump as a President of the United States to matter? If so, why?

As for Mr. Chomsky's analysis (which I did read before you ask), no, I don't agree. It's really just more of the same: Trump voters are stupid, angry, low class, low intelligence, etc.

I think Chomsky said "angry" and "uneducated". But you left out the part where he said a bunch of people are rightfully angry because they've been disenfranchised, left out in the cold by a relentless march of neoliberal policy. Is he wrong? If so, why?

I confess, I am a conspiracy theorist. I believe Hillary Clinton has already been selected by the CFR and the Bilderbergers as the next President. The only hitch is that they still need to convince enough people to vote for her so that voter fraud won't be too obvious. They still need Americans to have the illusion of choice. For some reason, too many people are voting for Trump. The MSM keeps calling him a racist and saying that anyone who votes for him are racist, but he still keeps getting votes. The story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf comes to mind; people just aren't buying it like they used to.

I think you're in good company here as a conspiracy theorist. You may be right about your assessment that global elites would like to see Clinton take the throne. But Fox is also mainstream media, and they are not in fact parroting that line. MSNBC most certainly is, but they are the liberal Fox. Do you personally believe that Trump isn't doing a bit of a political dance with racists? I think he quite clearly is. I'm not sure what he believes personally, but I think he wants angry racists to vote for him.

Now, even the Republicans are trying to slow Trump's progress. Their problem is, if a Republican were to be elected, they would have to explain why their policies so closely match the Democrats. They can say they want to repeal Obamacare, or deport illegals, or build a wall, or whatever. But if they were in a position to actually do it and didn't, people might start to take note.

Hillary is the perfect choice for the CFR. She can carry out "liberal" agendas like gun control and larger government, while pursuing "conservative" goals like more war in the Middle East. She can play the gender card more masterfully than Obama played the race card. The problem is getting people to vote for Hillary. It's much easier to get them to vote against someone else out of fear.

Hence, Fear a Trump Presidency is the mantra from both sides of the aisle until November.

I suspect you and I agree quite a lot about Clinton. I think she's less crazy than most of the Republican candidates, but I am not at all enthused by her. So, putting aside everything but Trump for a moment, do you disagree with Louis C.K.'s assessment that Trump is essentially playing to the most base fears and instincts humans have? That he has been shockingly inconsistent in his positions over the years, and that this sort populist rhetoric is distressingly similar to some very dark times in our collective history?

originally posted by: sandman441
He talks about this balance but the balance has been out of whack for at least 20 years if not more. Here is the thing though, all of these people are attacking Trump not his policies. What does that tell you? Louis C.K. wants the status quo people are tired of that and want change which is what Donald Trump will do.

No matter what you think of the guy, if he gets inm things will change for the better. If you listen to all the candidates they all say I am going to do this or I am going to do that, Trump says we are going to do this and we are going to do that.

Well, Louis C.K. pointed out that Trump made very strong statements about ordering the military to violate international law to torture detainees and then entirely reversed his position (in less than 24 hours). Louis C.K. is saying, essentially, that everything Trump has said policy-wise has been frighteningly inconsistent, that he is not a true Conservative, that he is basically playing the election to his own ends which are clearly unknown to us.

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: JohnnyElohim

I particularly enjoy the condemnation of disrespecting others, such as John MCain, and then he continues to go on a similiar diatribe on Trump:

Trump is a messed up guy with a hole in his heart that he tries to fill with money and attention. He can never ever have enough of either and he’ll never stop trying. He’s sick. Which makes him really really interesting. And he pulls you towards him which somehow feels good or fascinatingly bad. He’s not a monster. He’s a sad man. But all this makes him horribly dangerous if he becomes president. Give him another TV show. Let him pay to put his name on buildings. But please stop voting for him. And please watch Horace and Pete.

The moral ineptitude shown by people such as Lois CK, who lambast others for lambasting others, is enough to understand the piece isn't written for any principled reason, but for political ones. Not to mention, the obligatory Hitler comparison. More fodder.

It's morally inept for him to be honest in his judgement of Trump's character? You can agree or disagree, but I'm not clear on why this is some sort of moral slip-up on his part.

I've still to see anyone explain why they approve of Trump levying threats at the likes of McCain or Ryan, aside from the poster who seemed to imply that McCain has anything and everything coming to him because he made the mistake of taking Palin on board. Care to take that up?

originally posted by: JohnnyElohim



I suspect you and I agree quite a lot about Clinton. I think she's less crazy than most of the Republican candidates, but I am not at all enthused by her. So, putting aside everything but Trump for a moment, do you disagree with Louis C.K.'s assessment that Trump is essentially playing to the most base fears and instincts humans have? That he has been shockingly inconsistent in his positions over the years, and that that this sort populist rhetoric is distressingly similar to some very dark times in our collective history?

This is why he is smart, he does play off of those fears, but when you look at what is going on over in Europe are they really fears? But I wholeheartedly disagree with him pandering to racists. Are racists attracted to his rallys? probably but I'm sure everybody gets people like that. But for me it's amazing to see how full of crap the main stream media is, we have all known it for years but this is just blatant.

originally posted by: sandman441

originally posted by: JohnnyElohim



I suspect you and I agree quite a lot about Clinton. I think she's less crazy than most of the Republican candidates, but I am not at all enthused by her. So, putting aside everything but Trump for a moment, do you disagree with Louis C.K.'s assessment that Trump is essentially playing to the most base fears and instincts humans have? That he has been shockingly inconsistent in his positions over the years, and that that this sort populist rhetoric is distressingly similar to some very dark times in our collective history?

This is why he is smart, he does play off of those fears, but when you look at what is going on over in Europe are they really fears? But I wholeheartedly disagree with him pandering to racists. Are racists attracted to his rallys? probably but I'm sure everybody gets people like that. But for me it's amazing to see how full of crap the main stream media is, we have all known it for years but this is just blatant.

To get pedantic for a moment, fears are fears, valid or no. We tend to make our best decisions when we have the luxury of clearly seeing risks without an accompaniment of existential dread. All that said ... yes, I think calling for the cessation of Muslim immigration is quite absurd given the variables. Further, I think that he knows that. I don't think such a policy would ever happen and I doubt he's daft enough to think so, either. People in Europe who are much closer to the influx of refugees are generally quite far from Trump's positions. That tells me quite a lot.

a reply to: JohnnyElohim

It is.

First, because Trump never threatened McCain. That's called dishonesty.

Second, to condemn Trump about How he speaks about others, while at the very exact same time calling Trump names and other worse things, is about as morally questionable as it comes.

originally posted by: JohnnyElohim
All that said ... yes, I think calling for the cessation of Muslim immigration is quite absurd given the variables. Further, I think that he knows that. I don't think such a policy would ever happen and I doubt he's daft enough to think so, either. People in Europe who are much closer to the influx of refugees are generally quite far from Trump's positions. That tells me quite a lot.

He never said he was going to stop immigration, muslim or otherwise, he said he was going to stop it until we get a system that lets us know who these people are that are coming in. I think there are some that are far away from Trumps position but as more and more rapes, gropings and other bad things keep happening there will be a shift. It's already happening in Sweden and Germany.

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: JohnnyElohim

It is.

First, because Trump never threatened McCain. That's called dishonesty.

Second, to condemn Trump about How he speaks about others, while at the very exact same time calling Trump names and other worse things, is about as morally questionable as it comes.

To your first point, I'll copy the same article Louis C.K. did. In response to being told that McCain has advised Republican voters to consider very carefully whether they want to support Trump, Trump replied:

"Oh, he did? Well, that's not nice," he told CBS News' chief White House correspondent Major Garrett. "He has to be very careful."

When asked why the Arizona senator needs to be careful, Trump replied, "He'll find out."

Something tells me if Obama said anything of this sort, you'd be quite up in arms and would find no truck with equivocators suggesting this language isn't threatening.

To your second, are you quite serious? First of all, context. Do you expect a doctor to have the same decorum as a patient? A presidential nominee to have the same decorum as a comedian commenting on such? Louis C.K. is not trying to show the decorum of a statesperson, be a worthy nominee for office, or conduct himself as you'd hope your surgeon might. He is a comedian and a citizen. Trump is running for the highest power in the land of the United States. You're not morally impure because you're willing to say insulting things about Donald Trump. Perhaps you're crass. Perhaps you're brash. But this is not really the point. Honestly, how is this a contest of morals? I wouldn't vote for Louis C.K. for president. That doesn't mean he doesn't make a valid point about Donald Trump.

originally posted by: sandman441

originally posted by: JohnnyElohim
All that said ... yes, I think calling for the cessation of Muslim immigration is quite absurd given the variables. Further, I think that he knows that. I don't think such a policy would ever happen and I doubt he's daft enough to think so, either. People in Europe who are much closer to the influx of refugees are generally quite far from Trump's positions. That tells me quite a lot.

He never said he was going to stop immigration, muslim or otherwise, he said he was going to stop it until we get a system that lets us know who these people are that are coming in. I think there are some that are far away from Trumps position but as more and more rapes, gropings and other bad things keep happening there will be a shift. It's already happening in Sweden and Germany.

That's a cessation. Resuming it is conditional on factors not at all dealt with. Let's say I'm monogamous to my partner and I announce I'm no longer going to be monogamous until I'm "really sure" about this relationship. Would you really say that I never stopped being monogamous?

But really, Louis C.K. doesn't even get into this particular issue. He accuses Trump of bigotry because there's a theme at work in his rhetoric. But even this is not really the question posed uniquely in this thread. I want to know what Conservative Trump supporters have to say about the way he treats other Conservatives and the electoral process in general. I want to know why Trump and not Kasich, as Louis C.K. alludes to.

On a side note, I just realized that I've probably put this thread in the wrong forum. My apologies. Mods, there are good odds I should've started this in the "2016 US Elections" forum. Please move as you see fit.

If the choices are testicular cancer (trump) or Pancreatic cancer (Clinton) I will go with testicular cancer.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
If the choices are testicular cancer (trump) or Pancreatic cancer (Clinton) I will go with testicular cancer.

Sounds to me like what you really need is some "Universal Health Care" (Sanders).

Then you could keep your pancreas and your balls.

a reply to: mOjOm

I am for universal health care, so you would be absolutely right. I am not for much of what Sanders is for though. Him and Trump are the two best choices, for wildy different reasons, and neither is actually a good choice.

a reply to: JohnnyElohim

Louis C.K. is notoriously liberal, so his opinions mean very little to me politically speaking. As far as McCain goes, Trump is right, he does need to watch out. That isn't a threat, it's a prediction of what is about to happen to McCain in his own state... he's not going to be a US Senator after the elections are over because AZ conservatives are sick and tired of his lukewarm "conservatism." The man's political career has only survived this long because the AZ GOP has managed to bully any Republican that challenged him right into the poor house. J.D. Hayworth, a true conservative, would have whipped his ass 10 years ago if only McCain's connections hadn't slandered him and threatened any inner-party members who supported him. That's what Trump meant: McCain's years of bullying the nation and dictating which direction the Republican Party takes is over, finished, dead.

ETA: Trump 2016

originally posted by: JohnnyElohim

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: JohnnyElohim

Lol you political folks need to take a pill.

Have you got anything more substantive to contribute? I don't want a person running this country who casually makes vague threats to people like John McCain and Paul Ryan. You seem to think that's okay. Why?

Mccain sang like a canary in a hanoi prison contributing possibly to a few shoot downs over nam. HE wasnt a hero. in fact he was a traitor.

a reply to: intrptr

Can you imagine Carlin alive in these last 10 years? He would have had a field day with all that is going on. Miss that guy.

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: JohnnyElohim

It is.

First, because Trump never threatened McCain. That's called dishonesty.

Second, to condemn Trump about How he speaks about others, while at the very exact same time calling Trump names and other worse things, is about as morally questionable as it comes.

"you cant compare me to Hitler, even though im acting like Hitler at times, shame on you, and ill take your right away from you if you criticise me"

sometimes i feel like talking to trump supporters is like talking to christians, which wouldnt surprise me

Louis C.K. Regarding Trump: "Don’t vote for your own cancer. You’re better than that."

And this coming from the same man who asked Donald Rumsfeld if he was a lizard.



He is a comedian and his job is to make outrageous comments.

a reply to: TheTory

Second, to condemn Trump about How he speaks about others,

I wonder why nobody condemns Rubio for his comments about Trump and his manhood?



I guess it's okay for one to do so, but not the other...I love the hypocrisy that seems to come about in threads about Trump.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Oh I'm sorry, you must want the lying conniving conservatives like Romney, Bush and McCain, all exactly the same as Cinton…have fun

Career politicians are the worst.