God is good, his justice isn't violent.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I find your philosophy laughable and your god is a joke. My God loves me no matter what my religion is. I am glad I don't have your "god."

a reply to: Raggedyman

Let's make it very clear

Your god is a jerk

You don't know Jesus

You don't decide who gets to heaven

Your god is sadistic and only exists in your mind.

originally posted by: Caligula
a reply to: Raggedyman

I find your philosophy laughable and your god is a joke. My God loves me no matter what my religion is. I am glad I don't have your "god."

I concur, my god requires no worship, gratitude, nor even acknowledgement.

All that my god requires is that I be my genuine self, with no reservations - to the best of my ability - without denying anyone else the same ability.

Now that is love. In my opinion, of course.

EmBa

a reply to: EmpathicBandit

Yes my God is good to, he makes sure I am aware of religions lies, past and present. He is a God of knowledge, truth, love, forgiveness, and wisdom.

a reply to: Caligula

As an atheist,I'm obliged to tell you that there is no god.No heaven,no hell.A god would not cause the death of any innocent, or a baby nor a wonderful,gentle person.Such people die all the time.

It all lies upon our shoulders.We and nature are the killers.If your friends rejoice at the thought of billions of people dying,ask them if the children of these people are also wicked.

Should the parents die,the children shall shortly follow.What deity would allow this?Where does wicked even start?What would qualify as wicked?

Why would your god even make us so badly that we could even be violent?Should we not all be angelic in thought and deed?

There is no god.There never was.It was always us and shall remain so until the truly wicked destroy us all.

a reply to: Ericthedoubter

Everything about the universe is too exact, the human body too complex along with the scientific operations of everything else. There can be no way it's just an accident, life loses all meaning without a benevolent or at least neutral creator. I respect your opinion and am not saying your wrong. Just stating my belief/opinion on what we call God. I think we need a new word as Judeo-Christianity has ruined the word for the rest of us with their god of vengeance.

originally posted by: Sassanid
a reply to: Ericthedoubter

Everything about the universe is too exact, the human body too complex along with the scientific operations of everything else. There can be no way it's just an accident, life loses all meaning without a benevolent or at least neutral creator. I respect your opinion and am not saying your wrong. Just stating my belief/opinion on what we call God. I think we need a new word as Judeo-Christianity has ruined the word for the rest of us with their god of vengeance.

How exact does the universe need to be to require what you call a creator? I think this is a failed argument. We could be saying the same thing in a more chaotic/less meaningful universe, or in a less chaotic universe. Your statement proves nothing.

I respect your opinion too, and I agree that Judeo-Christianity is failing to provide answers. And I don't even call myself an atheist. But your argument is not enough. It sounds exactly like what the tired preachers say in my country, they claim to believe in God but they act like the average, secularized man.

We need something new, and new arguments.

a reply to:
Subnatural

From Biocentrism, by Robert Lanza M.D. - Source - Free Online Abridgement

There are over 200 physical parameters within the solar system and universe so exact that it strains credulity to propose that they are random — even if that is exactly what standard contemporary physics baldly suggests. These fundamental constants of the universe — constants that are not predicted by any theory — all seem to be carefully chosen, often with great precision, to allow for existence of life and consciousness (yes, consciousness raises its annoying head yet another time). We have absolutely no reasonable explanation for this.

I am of the mindset that "God" as people call it is consciousness. Pure and simple. It embodies us and is the "awake-ness" within us. It is the source of life, and the meaning of "spirit". It falls in line with virtually every major religion and spiritual practice known to man. The state of "no mind" the "higher self" all of it.

We are an intangible essence, peering through the windows of a tangible machine, within an environment we created for our self.


"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."

a reply to: Subnatural

I'm no preacher and if I were you I would stop listening to men of the church. As for how exact the universe needs to be to be a creation, the existence of you and me on a just right planet with just the right gravity, ecosystem, atmosphere and magnetic field is strong evidence. Ive heard scientists say you would have a better chance of assembling a 747 by passing a tornado through a junkyard than of this creation being random.

a reply to: Sassanid

I'm no preacher and if I were you I would stop listening to men of the church.

Good Advice!
Religion is the most indefensible, dishonest position anyone can be in.

As for how exact the universe needs to be to be a creation, the existence of you and me on a just right planet with just the right gravity, ecosystem, atmosphere and magnetic field is strong evidence.

Is strong evidence for what? That you have won the cosmic lottery?
99.9% of the Universe is deadly hostile for life.

Ive heard scientists say you would have a better chance of assembling a 747 by passing a tornado through a junkyard than of this creation being random.

You will never hear a real scientist say this creationist nonsense!
Even imaginary sky demons are bound by the Uncertainty Principle, and can never know the position, spin and the speed of a particle. So.. God does play dice with the universe. All the evidence points to him being an inveterate gambler, who throws the dice on every possible occasion.

a reply to: flyingfish

I actually did hear that rubbish from a real scientist. You think what you want, deny the complexities of life as coincidence. Why would I care?

If you think that life and habitable planet earth are a cosmic coincidence you are welcome to your opinion.

I, however, see it as a creation by a higher intelligence. I don't know what or who, but I know it's too complex scientifically to be an accident.

a reply to: flyingfish

Good Advice!
Religion is the most indefensible, dishonest position anyone can be in.

The above, i concur with whole heartedly. However;

I'm curious as to how you came to these other conclusions.

Have you personally explored 99.9% of the universe? are you 100% certain there are no space-fairing whales or other intangible entities made of dark matter that feed off pulsars and travel between nebulas? We humans have a severely limited capacity to even SEE everything that exists, never mind know about that which we can't see or quantify.. We only know the formula for life on our planet, to assume we know otherwise is the epitome of hubris.

as for the tornado reference, thats a pure probability calculation and has nothing to do with "sky demons" (which, if real, and invisible or existing outside of physicality, could potentially know the position, spin and speed of a particle, again, you can't say for sure, so this is conjecture at best)

I dont believe in "God" either, but come now, there is no basis to your claims whatsoever.

For all we know, every single planet in the universe could have some form of life, even if it is that the planet itself contains consciousness of some kind. For all we know, dark matter is alive.

For all we know.. we aren't even here and life is just an illusion..

"God" has nothing to do with it.

a reply to: flyingfish

Are you a scientist or just someone who thinks they are smarter than scientists? Define real scientist. I believe if you have the degrees from a college or university that would qualify you as a real scientist. Maybe you are fascinated by, but don't really understand science. Nothing exists that wasn't created, that is a fact. Whether God or nature (which is a god-like process) created the universe, and I lean towards a divinity of an unknowable existence, this world isn't accidental. I'm not religious but I do study religion. Science believes that humans are wired to believe in God, but when science becomes your god, your no less brainwashed than, and actually are in a cult. Your cult is science. Neither science or religion have the answers to lifes most important questions, do you?

Ironic, considering that the Christians/Catholics are the wicked who need to be destroyed.

a reply to: IamSandSHEisB
I'll help. I'm sick of those self righteous lying sacks of crap.

a reply to: EmpathicBandit

FF wasn't talking in absolutes, only the Sith and other religious folk do that....

a reply to: Prezbo369

How could you possibly know exactly what he meant? I'm fairly certain that Caesar can stand up for himself.

99.9% of the Universe is deadly hostile for life.

You will never hear a real scientist say this creationist nonsense!

Even imaginary sky demons are bound by the Uncertainty Principle, and can never know the position, spin and the speed of a particle.

All the above quotes are presented as absolute statements of fact. I am merely inquiring as to how one came to these conclusions, while at the same time refuting them with valid points of my own.

If you have something to contribute to the topic of the OP, i'm all ears.

originally posted by: EmpathicBandit
a reply to:
Subnatural

From Biocentrism, by Robert Lanza M.D. - Source - Free Online Abridgement

There are over 200 physical parameters within the solar system and universe so exact that it strains credulity to propose that they are random — even if that is exactly what standard contemporary physics baldly suggests. These fundamental constants of the universe — constants that are not predicted by any theory — all seem to be carefully chosen, often with great precision, to allow for existence of life and consciousness (yes, consciousness raises its annoying head yet another time). We have absolutely no reasonable explanation for this.

I am of the mindset that "God" as people call it is consciousness. Pure and simple. It embodies us and is the "awake-ness" within us. It is the source of life, and the meaning of "spirit". It falls in line with virtually every major religion and spiritual practice known to man. The state of "no mind" the "higher self" all of it.

We are an intangible essence, peering through the windows of a tangible machine, within an environment we created for our self.


"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."

I have to disagree with you about God being consciousness. Consciousness is everything that there is. Consciousness it the world. God would have to exist outside of the world, to be God the Creator. God is outside of everything that is. Otherwise he is just some element the world.

Well, I guess God can be consciousness and everything. But what is then the point of this debate? And the point of this universe? If there is a God, I don't think they made this universe for no reason. He or she must have had a reason to make us.

Personally I believe it is meaningless to see God as an entity. But it is even more meaningless to anthropomorphize consciousness or the universe as God.

originally posted by: Sassanid
a reply to: Subnatural

I'm no preacher and if I were you I would stop listening to men of the church. As for how exact the universe needs to be to be a creation, the existence of you and me on a just right planet with just the right gravity, ecosystem, atmosphere and magnetic field is strong evidence. Ive heard scientists say you would have a better chance of assembling a 747 by passing a tornado through a junkyard than of this creation being random.

I've heard scientists say a lot of things. Heh, I've never heard them say that though, to be honest.

Even if that was true, about the assembly of the 747, this would be irrelevant to theology. We can't base the existence of God on such frivolous grounds.

Existence is existence. What if you existed on a single island in a sea of acid? Everything else was a sea of acid, completely uninhabitable to mankind. Would that make you believe in God?

a reply to: Subnatural

But what is then the point of this debate? And the point of this universe? If there is a God, I don't think they made this universe for no reason. He or she must have had a reason to make us.

Herein lies the real questions. No matter how we answer the question of God, what remains to be asked is; why? while i dont believe in the personification of consciousness as a deity, it stands to reason that consciousness constructed this place for a reason, and we will - presumably - be left to wonder why, as long as we remain a part of it..

but that allows us each to find our own reason for existence.. if consciousness is all there really is, then perhaps we got bored and decided to create an arena within our existence for the purpose of experiencing all that we are capable of. If eternal, this could lead to an infinitely expanding universe of possibilities with unimaginable functions of existence.

Personally I believe it is meaningless to see God as an entity. But it is even more meaningless to anthropomorphize consciousness or the universe as God.

absolutely, i was using the name simply to draw a parallel between the two ideas, i do not personify consciousness as "god" only recognize the potential that what some of us construe or perceive as an entity separate from the world, is actually the world itself - and indeed, the consciousness within us. All that is, was and ever will be - the alpha, and the omega. Perhaps all exists within itself, as we exist within ourselves - with our perceptions and consciousness - so too may the universe be within itself, experiencing itself through us, as we experience ourselves through it.

I believe the secrets of Creation are found in the presence of paradox - that which is outside our capacity to understand

Perhaps the purpose of life in the universe is to expand the bounds of consciousness and in so doing, expand the universe itself. Isn't the main function of all life to reproduce and further its species/gene-pool? With every new place, new realm and new way of living, there is new experience to be had, a new way for consciousness to explore itself, to know itself.

The ultimate exploration of self.



maybe!

a reply to: EmpathicBandit

Consciousness is the only thing I can think of that exists, but isn't matter. Thoughts are in the mind, but it doesn't mean that was or will be the case. I feel we are here to develop our consciousness until we are worthy of a paradisical existence where misery and hunger don't exist. God, er Yahweh, is a fairy tale. The real God can't be that evil.